locked front diff

[mike.308]

Just wondering if i lock my frount diff in my ifs surf with manual hubs will it only be locked in 4x4 and how would it go?, by locking i mean welding

[derk]

Bahahaha


sorry mate couldn't help myself do you do all your 4WDing in a straight line

[mike.308]

Thats y i asked mate just getting some opinions iv had a few cars with lockers but its a bit diff being rwd

[derk]

yeah fronts a bit different to the rear mate you wont be able to steer if with a welded diff try finding a auto locker you'll find that'll work a lot better

[Mattman]

+1 for the auto locker in the front. Pretty easy to fit.

[suzolla]

you wont be able to steer if with a welded diff

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration, no different to a locked air locker in the mud, but on hard surfaces where traction is good will be heavy steering and hard on axles and CV's and tyres, would be a pain to get in and out to lock and unlock hubs all the time.

If you want a locker have a look at http://www.4wdstuff.co.nz/lockright-lockers/powertrax-lockright-75-ifs-rg1611

Cheers
Tim
www.4wdstuff.co.nz

[mudlva]

[muddymatt1973]

Back in the UK the modified triallers used to weld up the front diff all the time. Old school 750 SATs or dumper tyres and fiddle brakes on the rear end. Rear diff was obviously open. Those things used to go up and over anything.

When we modifed Hilux LN106 for the UN and WHO for Africa a common mod was a manual (lockrite) diff in the front only and retention of the manual hubs.

It would be nasty and dangerous on road but off road I don't think it would be a problem.

[De-Ranged]

Interesting comment above because I know trials guys that leave the front locker in for the majority and leave the rear open

I think it comes down to driving style... the trials guys are using wheel spin and HP, they have one chance so its all or nothing
Me when I'm out I like to cruise over things.... with a welded front driving like this you need to pay alot more attention for situations like mudluva described or you will end up on your side or braking things... there are ways to lessen this problem, don't use aggressive side biter tyres like the Simex, use a tame mud tyre the welded front diff will make a huge difference remember bulk of your weight is your front axle and now it wont spin up

Oh and don't listen to the "knowledgeable crowd" that say you have no steering... I would say 99% of them have no experience but they know lol
in slick flat going you can double your turning radius, but remember offroad is very really flat, ruts, washouts etc all help.... varying your throttle helps as well

This is just another tool that has benefits and consequences

Personally with an ifs surf I wouldn't run a welded diff with anything over 31"s as was stated this is hard on gear and I wouldn't do it on anything other than a thrasher...

[derk]

better go with the wise men, weld her up and then report back on what the steering's like

[prado_boon]

So wait... re-read his first question.

Let's say he welds the front diff... and is in 2wd and the hubs are open (free) then each wheel can move freely correct ?

Engage 4wd + lock hubs, then he'll have a locked diff.

Correct ?

[De-Ranged]

better go with the wise men, weld her up and then report back on what the steering's like

Well have you done this.... or are you the 99% that know all


Prado-boon
you are right, there is another bonus for a welded diff in that you brake some thing you still have one front wheel driving

[lax2wlg]

I think it comes down to driving style...

This is just another tool that has benefits and consequences

welded front diff will make a huge difference remember bulk of your weight is your front axle and now it wont spin up

in slick flat going you can double your turning radius, but remember offroad is very rarely flat, ruts, washouts etc all help.... varying your throttle helps as well

Personally with an ifs surf I wouldn't run a welded diff with anything over 31"s

x2 Weld the bitch up till you SAS.
Or maybe a full spool.

[klompy]

Yep give it a go those front diffs are cheap as chips anyway.

[derk]

better go with the wise men, weld her up and then report back on what the steering's like

Well have you done this.... or are you the 99% that know all

nah never welded mate I know what happens when you forget to disengage the front selectable

[mudlva]

[mud_slinger]

i have a welded front diff in my ifs truck, it was welded when i brought it.

yes it is a bit harder to turn when in 4wd, however if you change your driving style you'll have no probs. there was stuff i had to hit hard and fast with a open diff and now i can just cruise over stuff with the front end locked. in regards to being harder on gear i dont believe it is as i can tackle things more slowly and controlled compared to taking on obstacles with speed or by getting front end flying in the air. in terms of ending up on my side never had a issue or come close. never have any probs climbing the wheel only whips out of my hand when im in ruts which im sure it does with anyone.

weld it take it out and go easy until you find you are familiar with wat it can do and how it behaves then adjust your right foot to suit.

[De-Ranged]

lol your answer was all good Mudlva, You pointed out the worst side effect of this
I was reacting to the "muppet style" that some people answer in, decreeing that things are wrong without giving any thing other than silly reasoning or information ... usually a sign that they are all talk and don't know anything lol I don't think you fit in that category

Yea hydro is very cool and I know they can ingage on and off on the fly (would like to build my own some day)... I wasn't talking about that, I was refering to the use, leaving the front lockers in and switch the back as needed
it surprised me to find this out after talking to competitors

What is the issue with the box's when running a welded diff... I've never had any issues with the steering box's on the IFS surf lol I have fitted so many of them to other trucks.... Or are you referring to the relay box on the other side?

For the books I have had a toy with welded diffs (lockers or LSD's were way to expensive back then) for people on a budget a welded diff will get them so much further, my opinion from experience the front diff gave alot more traction than the rear
I have even run for several hr's on seal on a welded front axle to get home (don't recommend this)

It was a bit painfull but there is now good information to help him make his decision

[prado_boon]

x3 Weld it! It will be awesome.

[Weemsy]

I had the front diff of my escudo welded & blew the diff casing apart within 20 minutes, but we all know how weak escudo ally diffs are.
As for driving it, it was a bit stiff on the steering, but not impossible (I only have 1 arm).
Reece (deranged) told me to try and break it, which I did, but I was impressed how it could climb out of stuff that I couldn't do before I got it done.
Like some others say, alter your driving style as it doesn't need to be launched at obstacles.
Don't know how it would be on slippery sidlings though

[Dannz71]

just do it bro ul learn alot.
i didit and it was all good teaches you alot about driving off road

[slidenyo]

x3 my first rover had cruiser diffs with both ends locked and a 250 falcon motor and auto up to a rover transfer,
on 750 sats it worked so well with a fair amount of throttle modulation to allow for cornering and reattaining grip (ie back off when it spins),
and then I had an ifs surf with a locked front diff one electric auto hub and one manual which I could turn on or off at will,
fairly good in principal but only good for left hand turns in my case.
so why not go one further and have electric hubs independently switchable for left or right turns

[u13turbo]

I'm about to weld the front diff in my lj78(currently doing swivel hub seals/bearings) and from what I'm thinking I can just have one hub ingaged to increase steering, and then when its needed chuck the other hub in.

[slidenyo]

yep that's correct in a sense remembering that the outside wheel turning a corner travels further than the inside.
so there is bias when turning left or right depending on which wheel is locked in and speed comparative to the rest of the wheels.
with an open or lsd rear diff its hardly noticeable.
I'd put the balder pair of tyres on the front and go do some testing just so you become familiar with it

[Smurf]

Have you priced up a replacement hi pinion diff to replace it if you decide it isn't what you want? It is hard to unweld them.
I have an auto locker in the front of my LJ78 and the loss of steering when the locker is under load is quite bad.
Personally I would think twice about welding it.

[derk]

Have you priced up a replacement hi pinion diff to replace it if you decide it isn't what you want? It is hard to unweld them.
I have an auto locker in the front of my LJ78 and the loss of steering when the locker is under load is quite bad.
Personally I would think twice about welding it.

sometimes its just best to leave people to try shit to find out for themselves , welded front diffs are nothing new but if they were that great and didn't turn your truck into a dog half the 4wd community would all be driving around on them

[mudlva]

Have you priced up a replacement hi pinion diff to replace it if you decide it isn't what you want? It is hard to unweld them.
I have an auto locker in the front of my LJ78 and the loss of steering when the locker is under load is quite bad.
Personally I would think twice about welding it.

sometimes its just best to leave people to try shit to find out for themselves , welded front diffs are nothing new but if they were that great and didn't turn your truck into a dog half the 4wd community would all be driving around on them

Hear hear well said

[Crash bandicoot]

IF you weld it, make sure you have a spare and spare axles.

If you don't save up and get a proper locker, whether it be a air/auto/vacuum/detroit/ cusco what ever .

speaking from experience. You will wonder how you ever did without it when you start climbing or driving past bogged land cruisers and patrol's that have open fronts as most of the time the weight is on the front.

[mudlva]

IF you weld it, make sure you have a spare and spare axles.

If you don't save up and get a proper locker, whether it be a air/auto/vacuum/detroit/ cusco what ever .

speaking from experience. You will wonder how you ever did without it when you start climbing or driving past bogged land cruisers and patrol's that have open fronts as most of the time the weight is on the front.

Unless they too are all locked.... Then you will end up just as stuck

[lax2wlg]

half the 4wd community would all be driving around on them

It is. Just not necessarily here in NZ or on this website.

Go do some reading about spools, and how a full spool is an extremely strong, highly simplified welded diff, and how bucketloads of guys run them in their dedicated rock crawler or mudding trucks...mainly for simplicity.

You cant get any more brutally simple than a full spool and fixed front drive flanges. Millions of less moving parts than an ARB locker/hubs whatever setup.

And perhaps the most important thing it will force you to SLOW DOWN, everyone seems to think that thrashing around offroad at 100km/hr is what its all about.

Why not weld up an IFS Toyota? Excessive differentiation is one of the things that kills those Toyo 7.5 IFS diffs. 100% agree with Deranged in his assertions here