Starter Circuit problems on Dodgy Old Surf

forester · Post by **forester** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:53 pm

So I've been over the whole electrical system - all the relays clunk and click like they're supposed to, no fuses are blown, and I've taken the starter motor out and checked it on the bench - both starter motor and bendix work fine. I had a problem with my glow plug relay buzzing continuously when I turned the electrics on, so I replaced the glow plug relay assembly. I still have an intermittent fault - somehow not enough power is getting to the starter (battery is charged ok!). I get a 'check' light on the dash too.

Any ideas, all you wise people out there? Is this all because the glow plugs are shot (I knew that) but then how come is not enough power getting to the starter motor to turn it?

My ideas are as follows:

Somewhere a cable is leaking to earth where it has abraded against the body, or the cables connecting the starter are poked.

Any other suggestions?

any help gratefully received.

Also any suggestions for good (and reasonable) autoelectricians on the shore or in orewa / silverdale

Cheers

Gerard

aka forester

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:16 pm

I had this problem with a car, well i dunno how similar it was, but it just wasn't gettting enough power through the main lead from the battery to the starter. After replacing a whole load of stuff i didn't need to replace it turned out to be not enough current. put a chunky cable on solved all my problems.

It was intermittent for me to, over half the time it would go but i got good at parking on a hill!

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:36 pm

You are 100% sure the starter motor solenoid is perfect??
Test the voltage at the starter motor.
After holding the key for a second or two, jump out and feel the battery posts for heat. That would suggest an earthing problem.
Take of all your earth straps to the body/chassis/engine and make sure they are all free of any sort of corrosion, and the contact points are perfectly clean.

It is most likely an earth problem if the solenoid is fine. The starter can't draw the current required, and will heat up a battery terminal.

forester · Post by **forester** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:42 pm

Thanks DB and NJVS

DB, guess what I'll be doing this weekend.....although it's pay week - mebbe I get a paid professional to do it, eh?

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:47 pm

Yeah, sounds to me like a dodgy cable - check you have a good solid earth from the -ve battery post to the body, and a good solid connection also to the engine block, and that the earth strap hasn't come loose or corroded along the way. Then check the cable ends of the beefy wire from the battery to the starter.

Let us know what you find

regards

Steve

tomsoffroad · Post by **tomsoffroad** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:23 pm

Hi

Yip it has to be the Solanoid. If the problem is only intermittant then the solanoid is just starting to give up the ghost. :wink:

Have fun
Thomas

simono · Post by **simono** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:50 pm

Could be the solenoid
Could be the starter armature and or brushes
Could be earth from battery to engine

Being intermittant makes it a pain to trouble shoot accuratly.
Mine starts from cold beautifully but is a pig when hot.
I have had the starter out a couple of times now and have replaced the brushes and solenoid contacts.
My next step is to take a bl**dy big lead from both the batteries -ve to the engine block and preferably close to the starter.
If this fails to cure my woes then I'll replace the starter
Where on the 'shore are ya??

forester · Post by **forester** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:58 pm

That's the problem with dodgy old trucks!

DB I measured the voltage at the starter and it's getting 12.1 from a 12.7 battery - seems enough to me!

I'm playing witch-hunt with all those wonderful, abraded, half-dissolved snaky cables that go everywhere.....have finally called in the local mechanic....

It'd be fun if it was just the solenoid. Cheaper, too.

Just for interest's sake - Toyota wanted to charge me $360 for a relay. Toyota Commercials in Takanini wanted $75 and I eventually got it for $30 from an outfit down Patiki Road in Avondale.

Hope I don't get struck off for unsolicited advertisin''

Seems like everyone loves a good mystery, thanks for all your help one and all.......

FUBAR · Post by **FUBAR** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:00 pm

Very common fault with all types of toyotas
starter volt drop
simple test
place in nuetral
test for starting fault if plays up, turn key off
goto main batt feed to start at battery there shold be another small cable there with a plug (mostly likly black/white) that is solinoid wire for starter
unplug and put to battery +
startor spins over fine then you need to fit a rely whn crank from key

simple wiring diagram

fault is volt drop from batt->ign->startor

axel · Post by **axel** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:10 pm

Blast from the past. Did this fault ever get fixed? If so what was the problem? It looks like I have the same or similar problem. Not enough juice to start even tho the batt is well charged. Bench tested the started motor today and it seems to work fine. As far as I could tell all the relays functioned, cables seem to b in good nick but my next step will b running jumper cables from -ve bat terminal to engIne block and chassis to try completely
Eliminate cables as an issue. Oh and I don't think it matters but it's on a kzj78

mudlva · Post by **mudlva** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:05 pm

ok here it goes

on my kzn 185 we had starter problems after doing two sets of batteries checking leads replacing bits and bobs it came down to the little copper fittings in the solaniod
had become burnt out and not allowing full ampurage through $3.50 for a new peice and fixed problem out right

this was a fix in my vehicle but symtoms are almost perfect to what you are having problems with

worth a look

regards

axel · Post by **axel** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:52 am

Ah right, mudlva were the bits you replace the copper bits of the contact assembly? http://www.repairkitsuk.com/resources/_ ... 5B1$5D.JPG

Hope this link works.

playingInTheDitch · Post by **playingInTheDitch** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:00 am

Im having the same problem with my terrano. at this stage Im suspecting the positive battery terminal. but this has given some interesting insight

mudlva · Post by **mudlva** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:05 pm

axel wrote:Ah right, mudlva were the bits you replace the copper bits of the contact assembly? http://www.repairkitsuk.com/resources/_ ... 5B1$5D.JPG

Hope this link works.

Yep numbet 3 by the looks of the picture
The man said that only 1 will where out and then contact becomes very weak
The more it wheres the weaker the current the faster it will wear eyc etc
It cost around $3.50 if i remember right and fixed all the problems
If only i had known before hand as the two sets of batteriescwere proberly still mint
Consalation prize i did get $9.00 each for them:-(
Anyways worth a look the copper plunger ring doesnt wear out anywhere as fast as the little contactors on the side

axel · Post by **axel** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:25 pm

Well that sounds like something worth doing as when I took my starter to bits I did notice that particular part was far more worn then the other side. However when bench tested it worked fine????? The other odd symptom is that when I turn th key to the on position voltage across the battery drops from 12.5v to 11.8v I'll start looking for an earth fault when I get some time

Mud Hog · Post by **Mud Hog** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:52 pm

axel wrote:Well that sounds like something worth doing as when I took my starter to bits I did notice that particular part was far more worn then the other side. However when bench tested it worked fine????? The other odd symptom is that when I turn th key to the on position voltage across the battery drops from 12.5v to 11.8v I'll start looking for an earth fault when I get some time

And drops to 9.3 when starter kicking over is this normal, also ecd relay clicking in passenger guard never did this before, and something thats probably not related, glow light not going off and .5 volts at glow plugs when glow is on, do these have a controller or just the relay? Axel didn't get a chance to ask Rick today will tomorrow.

mudlva · Post by **mudlva** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:59 pm

axel wrote:Well that sounds like something worth doing as when I took my starter to bits I did notice that particular part was far more worn then the other side. However when bench tested it worked fine????? The other odd symptom is that when I turn th key to the on position voltage across the battery drops from 12.5v to 11.8v I'll start looking for an earth fault when I get some time

yes it will be fine on the bench

the contact area is what allows the current (amps) to pass thru to the motor with minimum contact area it give the same effect as bad earths or flat batteries.
when on the bench it requires next to no current to operate but try turning a 20+ to one compression diesel that's a different story

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