SJ413 build info

[Sausager]

Hi guys

I'm keen on getting a non-road legal SJ413. I'm planning a bit before I look seriously at any though. One that I am keen on buying off a mate has the 1600 vitara motor in it, which is great. But I have a million questions, and I am a complete novice at the whole offroad thing - including the mods that can be done. Any help would be awesome thanks!

I’m not afraid to do my own work, and I have access to a plasma cutter and cutting/welding, etc.

The kind of driving I prefer is more pottering around trying to get up banks that no-one else can than going into bogs at 1000km/h and sitting on the limiter all day – though I’m sure that will happen at some stage haha.

Raising:
I've read about the body lifts on these and that there is ten mounts, you need to cut holes in the floor to get at them all, etc etc. Can I just use the two front and two back blocks for a 50mm lift?
What is the best way to raise the suspension - minus doing a spring conversion? I’ve read about shackle lifts or something, but I can’t figure out what people mean when they talk about them. Can I unbolt the diffs from the leafs and put them below the leafs?

Drive:
I've heard that 5.12 vitara diff heads fit in the SJ diffs to get a lower drive ratio. Are all vitara diff heads the same?
Are there any downsides to welding the rear diff? I don’t want to do the front because then I can’t turn.

Tyres:
With a 50mm lift, the 1600 and a lower drive ratio, what are the biggest tyres I can run? I’m not afraid to cut/hammer guards. I wouldn’t try for massive wide tyres – mainly ground clearance.
If I managed to squeeze 33”s in there, what sort of clearance can I expect compared to say a hilux on 33”s?

Rims:
Are all rims created equal? What do I look for/avoid? I’d be keen to run tyres on low pressure – 8-10psi. Can I help myself by finding a certain type of rim?

Any advise/info would be great. I’ve done a bit of reading and find it hard to get a 100% understanding of these things.

[Swamped]

You want to keep zuks as low as possible for the tyre you run. they tend to fall on their sides.
Lots of differing opinions but I'd say 50mm spring lift and open the guards a bit, or open the rears and tube the whole front
Shackle lifts can make them steer like a bag of crap and they catch on everything. Spring over conversions can work if you mount another link on the diff to ease axle wrap a bit but I'm still not a huge fan as it gives you quite a bit of lift.
Body lifts aren't too hard to do, you can get long nuts (the only way i have to describe them) that fit like a bolt and will thread into the end of the captive body bolts. You still then are raising the centre of gravity and not getting any more suspension travel which is feeble on stock zuks. It could already have a bodylift from when the other engine was fitted too as otherwise often the bonnet has to have a power bulge fitted to it. I would always use all body mounts to avoid stressing anything too.

Gearing. You already have the lower geared 413 diffs. I would get a 410 transfer and just run that for a bit more reduction. Long term, for 32 or 33's I'd be fitting aftermarket transfer gears.

33's will be real cosy even with a 50mm lift. I have 70mm cut out of the outer arch skins n tub and a 50mm lift. 32's maybe small sized 33's fit but I should still fit small bumpstop extensions. It will be really tough on cvs and axles without upgrading those bits. Even then you won't want to be a total animal on the gas pedal. Long term I would fit samurai diffs under it for the extra width and stability you gain and shift the front one forwards 20mm or so while your at it.

Thats kinda breezing over things. Have a read on the auszookers forum for more indepth descriptions.

[COILY]

Just get a standard one and drive it like you stole it until you have some experience then decide which route you want to go down.
A standard zook will still go far.

[teamorange]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/suzuki/113614-faq-official-pbb-suzuki-bible-updated-mar-4-2014-a.html

is useful on most suzuki tried and tested mods, the main Suzuki forum is chock full of ideas and build threads.

[zukmeista]

Raising:
I've read about the body lifts on these and that there is ten mounts, you need to cut holes in the floor to get at them all, etc etc. Can I just use the two front and two back blocks for a 50mm lift?

The body mounting setup on these is a bit different, they have a stud welded to the body so some people cut the stud off and drill a hole through the floor and put a normal bolt through which is pretty hack. There are body lift kits available with female bolts (threaded tube with a bolt head) which would be a better way of doing it. There are also several points on the body that are supported but not bolted, it would be advisable to put blocks under these as well to prevent the floor cracking.

What is the best way to raise the suspension - minus doing a spring conversion? I’ve read about shackle lifts or something, but I can’t figure out what people mean when they talk about them. Can I unbolt the diffs from the leafs and put them below the leafs?

A set of lifted springs would be the best option, I have had good results with EFS from here:http://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductsList.aspx?CategoryID=41 Extended shackles will mess up the castor angle and make it handle weird, also can damage springs. A spring over conversion is a lot of work and not recommended as it will raise your COG a lot which is not good in a narrow zook.

Drive:
I've heard that 5.12 vitara diff heads fit in the SJ diffs to get a lower drive ratio. Are all vitara diff heads the same?
Are there any downsides to welding the rear diff? I don’t want to do the front because then I can’t turn.

The front diffs in the Vitara's are the same size, but the carriers are alloy so best to swap the gears into the SJ steel carrier. 5.12's will be a bit low geared for road use but not enough reduction in low range so better off going for something like 4.3's combined with 4.16 gears in the transfer case. I would go for an auto locker in the rear over welded, I had one and it was great.

Tyres:
With a 50mm lift, the 1600 and a lower drive ratio, what are the biggest tyres I can run? I’m not afraid to cut/hammer guards. I wouldn’t try for massive wide tyres – mainly ground clearance.
If I managed to squeeze 33”s in there, what sort of clearance can I expect compared to say a hilux on 33”s?

If going to 33's don't get 12.5 wide ones as they will be useless offroad as they won't give enough ground pressure and will just slide everywhere instead of gripping. *shameless plug* I have some skinny 33's for sale that are currently on zook rims:http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=745498484

Rims:
Are all rims created equal? What do I look for/avoid? I’d be keen to run tyres on low pressure – 8-10psi. Can I help myself by finding a certain type of rim?

You will be fine at that pressure just fit tubes as they will help get the tyre back on if you pop a bead.

[slidenyo]

keep it simple chap,
seat time is the best option before mods or going off and buying stuff,
learning to modulate the throttle, when to use a little momentum and when to halt or gun it are all things to learn.
we followed a pajero jnr with tiny tires no mods and a champion throttle jockey on a club run last week.
by far the smallest truck made certain parts of the run look easy whilst others hard.
he had it on two wheels multiple times but really did well with only a few snatches needed.
the sj is a great platform to build from and very capable standard.
set it low like a trials truck and you'll be stable

[zukmeista]

set it low like a trials truck and you'll be stable

X2 mine was awesome with 31's and no lift, had me freaking out long before it would feel like tipping.

[slidenyo]

get it to a point on a sidling that makes you uneasy,
stop hop out and try lift the high side off the deck,
you'll be surprised how far over you can go before you drop ground pressure on the high side to a lift-able level

[Sausager]

Thanks for your advise, that's awesome

I'm seeing a big theme of "learn it before you change it" which makes more sense the more I think about it. Sound advise.

Maybe I should have stated that this is a super budget build - with a mortgage, one income and a child, spare pennies are few and far between. How would I go about a 50mm spring lift like Swamped has suggested?

Keeping it low sounds like a plan, especially with these tommy tippees. What size tyres & lift (if any) would you be recommending? I'm just scared of not being able to go anywhere that has ruts chewed out by hiluxes on 33s. Will 31s on an SJ have similar diff clearance?

Thanks guys, you're great

[BlakeJ]

save your self the hassle and buy my samurai. It has a 16v injected 1600 vitara motor, powersteering, rocklobster transfer gears, Old man emu springs and shocks (1.5" lift), has no body lift so nice and low, has tubbed guards for a Virtual lift of around 2" flipped centre big offset ROH steel rims, 33" silverstone extremes, boot box, roof rack, recaro seats, on board aircompressor system (better than any electric air compressor), re cut factory guards with flares fitted, tank guard, custom front and rear bar work and a whole bunch of other cool shit. You will spend a hell of a lot more building the same truck, i would have spent a shit load if i added everything all up.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =722667854

[zukmeista]

I'm seeing a big theme of "learn it before you change it" which makes more sense the more I think about it. Sound advise.

Yes it's a good way to start, my samurai was on 215/75 MT's for about 1 1/2 years, teaches you how to pick a line instead of just point and shoot.

Maybe I should have stated that this is a super budget build - with a mortgage, one income and a child, spare pennies are few and far between. How would I go about a 50mm spring lift like Swamped has suggested?

Well you picked the right vehicle for a budget build. Blake's samurai is nice but IMO half the fun is building it and getting to know the ins and outs of your truck. I have had good results with EFS lift springs from here:http://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductsList.aspx?CategoryID=41

Keeping it low sounds like a plan, especially with these tommy tippees. What size tyres & lift (if any) would you be recommending? I'm just scared of not being able to go anywhere that has ruts chewed out by hiluxes on 33s. Will 31s on an SJ have similar diff clearance?

If I was to do it all again I would go for 31's with no lift and chopped guards, they are a big enough tyre for most tracks and if you need more diff clearance you can 'shave' the bottom of the diff housing about 1", the equivalent of going from 31's to 33's. There are few times where a zook will get caught up on the chassis but plenty of times you will encounter funny angles.

[stovanovich]

I'm just scared of not being able to go anywhere that has ruts chewed out by hiluxes on 33s. Will 31s on an SJ have similar diff clearance?

My cousin rolls everywhere with us in his pretty much stock standard 410 on 30" Grabbers. And he has outdriven both safari & hilux's on 33s with it. You'll find with the weight of your zook you'll just float over the ruts. Metaphorically of course, unless it's been raining alot in which case... no metaphor applies.

[lax2wlg]

seat time is the best option before mods or going off and buying stuff,
learning to modulate the throttle, when to use a little momentum and when to halt or gun it are all things to learn.

x2

you'll be surprised how far over you can go before you drop ground pressure on the high side to a lift-able level

x2 it always feels a lot worse than it actually is. I agree that its a good idea to carefully establish the limits of the vehicle. Bail out of a shitty line/rollover by turning into the direction that its rolling. They do look quite tippy though.

[suzookyman]

You can do suspension lifts on the leaf sprung SJ's relatively cheap. I am doing one on my boy's truck soon. Have all the bits i need just don't have the time at the mo. I will let you know how I get on. Should only cost around $20 , and no it's not extended shackles.

[Sausager]

Man, I want one now so I can get out there and start learning some stuff!

I've dreamed up a few more questions.
What parts are needed for the vitara diff head conversion? Any modification required? I think I'd rather do that than the 410 transfer due to cheaper/more available parts and I've never pulled a diff apart Plus I want to weld the rear one anyway haha

If I weld the rear diff and a frame it on the road, I presume the rear axle won't have fun on the road. Is it possible to fit a manual hub to the rear?

SJ413 is the chassis code of a samurai right - like ln106 and hilux. Some people seem to differentiate between the two.

Thanks guys!

PS, nice truck Blake. A bit too pricey for me though sorry.

[zukmeista]

I've dreamed up a few more questions.
What parts are needed for the vitara diff head conversion? Any modification required? I think I'd rather do that than the 410 transfer due to cheaper/more available parts and I've never pulled a diff apart Plus I want to weld the rear one anyway haha

You will need this to install the vitara gearshttp://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.php/suzuki/samurai/differentials/carrier-pin-retaining-cans.html Or I have heard some people tack weld the pins in place.

If I weld the rear diff and a frame it on the road, I presume the rear axle won't have fun on the road. Is it possible to fit a manual hub to the rear?

Or you could fit a lockrite as they lock up when power is applied so corners won't be a problem. They only way I know of to fit freewheeling hubs to the rear is to do a full-floating axle conversion similar to thishttp://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=38240

SJ413 is the chassis code of a samurai right - like ln106 and hilux. Some people seem to differentiate between the two.

No, SJ413 is the model name, the chassis codes are explained below.
SJ410 has SJ40 chassis code = narrow track 4.1:1 ratio diffs, 970cc F10A engine with 4 speed gearbox. There were 3 'types'. Type one was drum brakes front and rear, and transfer case with no 4WD light, metal dash. Type 2 updated to disc brakes on the front and had 4WD light for transfer case. Type 3 has a plastic dash and a larger gearbox tunnel to accommodate a 1.3L size gearbox although still 4 speed. This gearbox can have the 5 speed internals from the 1.3L gearbox swapped in. The 4wd light transfer cases can be swapped into a 1.3L to give a 12% reduction. The flanges need to be swapped. Earlier cases without the 4WD light have a different output shaft on the transfer case so not possible to swap flanges.
SJ413 has SJ50 chassis code = narrow track 3.9:1 ratio diffs, 1328cc G13A engine and a 5 speed gearbox. Disc brakes on front, drums on back with transfer mounted drum handbrake.
Samurai started with SJ50 chassis code = wide track 3.7:1 ratio diffs, 1328cc G13A engine and handbrake integrated into rear drums. Has plastic wheel arch flares.
SJ70 is the same as above but with 1298cc G13BA engine and steel wheel arch flares.

[zukmeista]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/suzuki/auction-748042191.htm

[BlakeJ]

yea harry has that bang on. the main difference between the sj413 and the samurai is that the samurai has the "wide track" diffs, this is that the diffs are wider (hence the bigger steel flares). These are the most sought after for offroad use as the wider track makes them more stable, couple this wider track with bigger offset rims (like i have done) and you have yourself a very stable truck.

The other thing to note is that after 1995 (i think) the samurai is under the sj80 chassic number. these trucks are very different, the have the bonus of powersteering and an injected motor in some models but they have crappy internal chain driven transfer cases (which can be swapped out) and are coil sprung. This sounds like a bonus but its not, the flex like crap, brake easily and there are bugger all aftermarket parts for them. Leaf sprung samurais are way better. Some may disagree, but this is how I and every other samurai owner i know see it