solid axle swap VZN185 surf

[mudsurfv6]

this conversation started in 'mitsubishi' but will carry on here.

to put a prado diff in the front of a VZN185 surf I need/better to put a 130 transfer case in right.
I have a 89 LN130 transfer in the shed. electric engage.
is the LN130 transfer better to use or a VZN130? stronger, ratios, etc
which is easier to mount to rear of VZN185 tranny?
do I have to change the sump like you do in a KZN185?
what is the best steering to use?

I haven't got the money/time at the moment, just trying to make a plan and keep an eye out for parts, and it won't be an open budget when I do.

[bob_or_jim]

If I had a preference on what I would do I would go for a 130 shape to start with. Unfortunately you will have an older surf at the end of it however you could sell the 1 you have and with the $ difference you would almost fund the conversion.

Anyway with your 185 Im not sure what the sump setup is like with the v6 but it could be a cause of grief too. You really need to have a look at 1 thats done and compare it to yours. Where do you live?

Edit: also for comparison on how easy the swap is in a 130.......it took 4 hours with all mounts prepped and bare chassis rails to get everything lined up and tacked into position. The 185 took 6 weeks of nutting out and was alot more expensive due to trips to the parts wreckers. Have a look at my posts for some pictures.

[derk]

I guess its an improvement but its a lot of work and money to get a pretty stiff inflexible front end IMO prado stuff has never been known for having much flex a 3 or 4 link setup on a prado or lux axle would be talking

[mudsurfv6]

you could sell the 1 you have and with the $ difference you would almost fund the conversion.

paid 5.5 not long ago, had 130s, wanted the 3.4 (not sure why this is in the quote)

Where do you live?

pahiatua, north wairarapa.

I guess its an improvement but its a lot of work and money to get a pretty stiff inflexible front end IMO prado stuff has never been known for having much flex a 3 or 4 link setup on a prado or lux axle would be talking

? a 3 or 4 link set up, isn't a 71/78 prado that? please explain a bit more. not being smart just don't know.

[mudsurfv6]

lux axle

you mean a leaf sprung diff? cos I have two sitting here. would they be modifiable without TOO much expense?

[J_Dub]

You could slap a leaf sprung front end in in 1 day

[mudsurfv6]

You could slap a leaf sprung front end in in 1 day

you meaning keep the leaf springs? I was meaning could you convert a leaf sprung front diff to coils? without too much expense.

a 3 or 4 link setup on a lux axle would be talking

?

I've had leaf sprung surfs and definitely want coils.

[Checkerhead]

? a 3 or 4 link set up, isn't a 71/78 prado that? please explain a bit more. not being smart just don't know.

Prados are a radius arm set up. Two links and a panhard. Each of the two links attaches to the diff at two points. These don't tend to be great for flex. Patrols also use this in the front, Pajeros in the rear, _-J series Prados front and rear. Good for the bump compliance of a coil, but not inherently that flexy. Any decent leaf seat ups would out flex a radius arm set up. (generally speaking)

Three link is two lower links (similar to a radius arm set up) but each link only attaches at one point on the axle. A third link attaches higher on the diff, this link stops the axle from rotating forwards or backwards every time you brake or accelerate. This system still requires a panhard rod. (or "track bar" I think the yanks call them). The main advantage of a three link over a four or five is that it requires less/different space.

I four link is the same as three link but with two upper links (one on each side of the diff) and still requires a panhard. These are often called five links. These are what TJ's use front an rear, XJ in the front, Patrol and Surf in the back.

A triangulated four link (sometimes just called a four link) does not need a panhard. You will see these in trophy trucks, KOH cars, rock crawler etc. Anything that needs big travel and or flex. These are hard to fit in around other space constraints.

Hope that helps.

[Checkerhead]

You could slap a leaf sprung front end in in 1 day

you meaning keep the leaf springs? I was meaning could you convert a leaf sprung front diff to coils? without too much expense.

a 3 or 4 link setup on a lux axle would be talking

?

I've had leaf sprung surfs and definitely want coils.

Yes, you could totally use the axle housing and put what ever coil mounts you like on it. Advantage of the Prado housing is that it is a wider track (80mm from memory? could be wrong) and the cv has a bigger bell so they are slightly stronger than a lux cv.

[mudsurfv6]

Hope that helps.

that has made it a bit clearer.

Advantage of the Prado housing is that it is a wider track (80mm from memory? could be wrong) and the cv has a bigger bell so they are slightly stronger than a lux cv.

would putting the ifs hubs onto hilux housing help? the 185 v6 hubs would have bigger brakes aye? strength wise would that matter with keeping the v6? and make it a 3 link? leaf sprung diffs have the 3rd link on top right? use that? or does it need to be longer?

[vvilly]

The 185 chassie rails are wider. This makes it Harder to fit the shock towers and link arm assembly into the small gap, and for the geometry to work properly. There is not much margin for error.

All I say is do your homework first. There is a heap of things to take into consideration when doing this swap.

it's not as easy as the 130

[mudsurfv6]

All I say is do your homework first.

and this is the best place to do that. there is a wealth of knowledge out there.
I see you used a KZN130 transfer. is that stronger than a LN130 transfer? do you know if the back of transmission on KZN185 & VZN185 are the same to connect ???130 transfer?

[Checkerhead]

would putting the ifs hubs onto hilux housing help? the 185 v6 hubs would have bigger brakes aye? strength wise would that matter with keeping the v6? and make it a 3 link?

Don't think it would help, it's the cv's that let go.

Re brakes, don't know. Everything up to a 130series uses a the same size disc (Hilux's, Surf's, and lots of Cruiser's) but some of the later vehicles have a bigger calliper that goes on the same disc. This is just a straight bolt on swap though. If you were to use ifs hubs then you need an adapter to move the disc out on the hub. Gives a wider track but generally considered to be not worth it these days as wheel spacers are cheaper and easier.

leaf sprung diffs have the 3rd link on top right? use that? or does it need to be longer?

Haven't built a 3 link but some maths I did for one seemed to show it would want to be longer than that.
The one on the leaf setups is about holding the diff still for the sake of steering, because the lux steering pushes forwards and backwards. When people go cross over steering they ditch this control arm.

[mudsurfv6]

wheel spacers are cheaper and easier.

that solves that problem.

Haven't built a 3 link but some maths I did for one seemed to show it would want to be longer than that. The one on the leaf setups is about holding the diff still for the sake of steering, because the lux steering pushes forwards and backwards. When people go cross over steering they ditch this control arm.

which do you think would be easiest/best/cheapest/... to do on a 185? and coils on a leaf sprung diff. 3 link 4 link?
was planning on cross over steering to keep it all tucked away, unless advised differently.
still need to use a 130 ifs steering box? or is there another one better suited to this set up?

[KIWI_TERRANO]

Talk to jase on here he did his 185 mint truck

As for factory prado not letting u flex much thats bs, my 130 i beam axle flexed great for what it was, depend on what spring rates and shocks you use

The 185 have a lot more issues to sort when beam axling as steering different and that, ild bolt a 130 transfer onto back of current box

[Checkerhead]

As for factory prado not letting u flex much thats bs

Not saying they don't flex, just that they inherently flex less than a 3 link or 5 link etc. They bind against themselves. Why do you think Superior make super-flex arms? And people convert them to X links? There is a guy on here that converted his rear radius arm set up to a 5 link to let it flex better and thus gain stability for dropping over banks at an angle, but he still runs a radius arm set up in the front and the truck works very well. (might be a decent driver as well)

which do you think would be easiest/best/cheapest/... to do on a 185? and coils on a leaf sprung diff. 3 link 4 link?
was planning on cross over steering to keep it all tucked away, unless advised differently.
still need to use a 130 ifs steering box? or is there another one better suited to this set up?

I have no experience with 185s Bro. Someone else will answer that question way better than me.
That said. Start with the end in mind. What are you aiming for? Do you want the best flex at low speeds? Do you want stability at higher speeds? Do you need buckets of travel or can you live with 250 mm? What do you want to use the truck for?

My truck is being built for a bit of offroad racing and a bit of winch challenging. But I'm also building to a budget. As such, I am sticking with the simple radius arm set up in the front. It's cheap, easy, it will have good bump compliance (for speed) if not amazing flex. I'm sure it will do everything I need it to. Maybe one day I will three link it.

[mudsurfv6]

ild bolt a 130 transfer onto back of current box

KZN or would a LN transfer be ok in your opinion?

Start with the end in mind. What are you aiming for? Do you want the best flex at low speeds? Do you want stability at higher speeds? Do you need buckets of travel or can you live with 250 mm? What do you want to use the truck for?

maybe I should have put that on original post.
its got to be road legal, a second family vehicle when needed. that's why I had to sell surf on photo above user name, only 2 seats.
be a tough club truck, teams challenge truck, club class winch challenge truck. be nice to have a go at off road racing one day. but still be ok for safari's.
so needs enough flex but its not a rock crawler and needs to be stable enough at 100kms on the road.
it will also be built on a lowish budget. SIMPLE is best, even though mods aren't simple you know what I mean.
2 inch body lift, 2 inch ? suspension lift, hydraulic bump stops?, 35 inch simex, rear auto locker, front ? manual locker, exo cage, winch front & rear......., be a longish term build as money and time allows. its still standard at the moment.
what vehicle are you building?
does anyone know of someone around wairarapa, manawatu, southern hawkes bay who has done sas in surf?

[jonossiksilvia]

ln130 transfer will be fine. i using 1 behind my v8 so will be fine behind ur v6

[mudsurfv6]

ln130 transfer will be fine. i using 1 behind my v8 so will be fine behind ur v6

that's good, I can use the one I've got.

[lax2wlg]

its got to be road legal, a second family vehicle when needed.

so needs enough flex but its not a rock crawler and needs to be stable enough at 100kms on the road.

it will also be built on a lowish budget. SIMPLE is best, even though mods aren't simple you know what I mean.

Realistically (for any modicum of ride quality), that rules out everythng except the Prado radius arm setup.

[mudsurfv6]

Realistically (for any modicum of ride quality), that rules out everythng except the Prado radius arm setup.

I guessed that might be coming.
no way a leaf sprung diff could be modified to be a radius arm setup? (cos I have two sitting here). cost not worth it?

[Checkerhead]

Realistically (for any modicum of ride quality), that rules out everythng except the Prado radius arm setup.

I guessed that might be coming.
no way a leaf sprung diff could be modified to be a radius arm setup? (cos I have two sitting here). cost not worth it?

You could probably build of the Hilux diff. Buy a couple of Pajero rear radius arms and use them. They are strong and I imagine fairly cheap. I guess you would want to make sure that the chassis width and the appropriate mount width for the arms on the axle will work together.

what vehicle are you building?

This.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=33527&hilit=checker%2A
But I'm a student now so build has all but stopped.

[vvilly]

All I say is do your homework first.

and this is the best place to do that. there is a wealth of knowledge out there.
I see you used a KZN130 transfer. is that stronger than a LN130 transfer? do you know if the back of transmission on KZN185 & VZN185 are the same to connect ???130 transfer?

if the vzn is running a a343 ya should be fine. We had to get tooled up a new adaptor spline as the 130 tc sat further back. and the original one was to short.

are you keep in your airbags. what are your thoughts with abs.

Also going from rack and pinion to steering box a Mish

[mudsurfv6]

are you keep in your airbags. what are your thoughts with abs.

abs can go, hopefully its that simple. is it?
airbags can stay if all works out, xrox bar or something, and hook up to transfer so when in 4wd they don't work. otherwise that can get certed out too and then can build any bar on the front.

Also going from rack and pinion to steering box a Mish

don't know here, what did you do?

if the vzn is running a a343 ya should be fine.

its A340F transmission code.