D1 V8 Auto with 35"?

[Disco Gofer]

I have only ever gone up to 33" on my Discos as they were all road worthy but am now looking at buying a D1 V8 auto and gutting it to make a bush truck and move my cruiser on so has any one done 35" . Not worrying about open road at all will the auto box in LR be ok for this as a mud truck? Just want to know if it will have any long term strain on it or should be looking for a specific Disco/box/combo that would work best. Im just gonna pick a Disco off Trade Me or some thing like that and strip it down and gut the inside etc.

[derk]

the landrover heads will jump on me for saying so but for what its worth your trying to base a tougher bush truck build on a vehicle that is generally considered to have a weaker drive train so factor that into your build plans but I understand everyone has their own preferences to what vehicles they like and want to own so by all means go for it and don't forget to throw a few spare draglinks in the back if your going to run 35" tyres on it

[muddymatt1973]

Heaps of different transfer box ratios and available diff ratios about if it won't turn the 35's as standard. Or even an Ashcroft underdrive unit.

[Ralfie]

I have only ever gone up to 33" on my Discos as they were all road worthy but am now looking at buying a D1 V8 auto and gutting it to make a bush truck and move my cruiser on so has any one done 35" . Not worrying about open road at all will the auto box in LR be ok for this as a mud truck? Just want to know if it will have any long term strain on it or should be looking for a specific Disco/box/combo that would work best. Im just gonna pick a Disco off Trade Me or some thing like that and strip it down and gut the inside etc.

Been done a few times, even to classic Range rovers which are same.
Change diff ratios to 4.1 C&P.
Locking diff front and rear.
Upgrade CV's to either Stage 1 V8 or aftermarket like KAM or Ashcroft etc.
Trim wheel arches.

NZ4WD have a Project Range Rover which they did up similar to above with 35's and that is road legal. And yes it is running standard ZF auto from what I read with a larger modified V8.

[Batfastard]

Mine ran the 35" simex fine with the 3.5 diff .changed to kam 4.75.1 and it's mint .

[Disco Gofer]

Wow, thanks for all the good replies. I know I'm changing from a real tough Chevy power cruiser to a Disco but just love them. I know some guys change the diffs to Land Cruiser diffs etc. but don't have the means to do this cost effectively. I will take on board all your suggestions and experiences and apply it to my where possible.

[De-Ranged]

The D1 I'm pretty certain is still on the 10 spline inner axles the same as the RRC.... this means you have a series of weak points you need to address
First off and the worst, your diff spider gears.... I've eaten these on 31"s they are very weak, if this is a bush truck just weld em if your budget isn't great if you can afford it then lockers will solve this
Next your back axle, being 10 spline it will eventually snap.... a cheap fix is to swop the rear to the newer D2 24 spline axle and diff, they have the same ratio as the D1 (Deseilboy did this to his 110 he drove around Aussy)
As for the front upgrading to the 24 spline front isn't an improvement... I know alot of people will tell you to change, but before you do go onto the Ashcroft Transmission site and search for axle and CV strength.... you will find proof there that the 24 spline axle CV is weaker than the 10 spline axle one.... this gives you a choice stronger CV's and weaker axles or the other way round
My experience says the CV's go before the axles so I have stayed with 10 spline.... on a positive note talking with guys in europe who trial on these axles a good (only done road ks) axle is good for 2-3 seasons of trialing a new one 3-5 seasons... stuff that has been offroad they only consider as spares... If I have issues with this I'll get Howe to make a set of new axles for it
The only other option is a 24 spline front axle from a D2, stage 1 or defender and spend alot of money on CV's and axles, go cheak out the Ashcroft site....

As for different ratio diffs there are a couple of options there is a rover car diff 4.1 ratio that will swop into a 10 spline axle.... don't do this lol they are hard to find and very weak
You can swop landrover series diffs into the 10 spline axles, they are 4.7 ratio catch is they are weaker than the ones you have (this is what I'm doing on my shinny truck) this is due to the small pinion and lesser tooth engagement I'm pegging the diff and will put a new ring and pinion in at a later date if I eat it, with this done I should be plenty strong enough. If you decide to go down this path with 4.7 diffs you can get an aftermarket 24 spline diff from ashcroft for the rear, I'm going with a Salsbury series rear axle and converting it to fit

Now for the issue no one mentioned.... you will need wheel spacers or flipped center rims as you will loose alot of turning circle due to the bigger tyres hitting the radius arms

Good luck

[Big]

Yes you can do it..but have lots of spares and cash for repairs...if you adamant about running 35, s.. save yaself a lot of hassle..get ashcrofts.. then you will be sweet..

[DieselBoy]

All depends how your gonna drive it really.

The stock 24 Spline disco half shafts will take a good hammering before failing, usually from repeated hard full power bounces up a hill in a high traction situation (get off the gas if it bounces ).

The spider gear/carrier pin failures are different again. They are a result of excessive wheel spin and lack of lubrication. If your stuck and spinning the hell out of everything digging holes and making a general hash of things, be aware that after a while heat will be starting to build up in the diff head through the spider gears spinning their little hearts out at an inedible speed. The spider gears seize onto the carrier pin and the carrier pin starts to rotate in the carrier, which eventually flogs out to the point that the carrier pin snaps. The amount of wheel spin required to make that happen is totally in the excessive relm. It doesn't happen under normal off road driving for no reason. If your diff oil is low, dirty, old or just full of water it can dramatically increase the chances of this sort of failure too.

Im running a set of Hi Tough (used to be Maxidrive) axles , heavy duty Drive flanges and a Detroit Locker in the rear on 255/85/16s (just over a 33" Tyre). Bullet Proof as Front is still stock 24 spline, with H.D Drive flanges. I want a Detroit True Trac up front one day

[Ralfie]

The D1 I'm pretty certain is still on the 10 spline inner axles the same as the RRC.... this means you have a series of weak points you need to address
First off and the worst, your diff spider gears....

As for different ratio diffs there are a couple of options there is a rover car diff 4.1 ratio that will swop into a 10 spline axle.... don't do this lol they are hard to find and very weak
You can swop landrover series diffs into the 10 spline axles, they are 4.7 ratio catch is they are weaker than the ones you have (this is what I'm doing on my shinny truck) this is due to the small pinion and lesser tooth engagement I'm pegging the diff and will put a new ring and pinion in at a later date if I eat it, with this done I should be plenty strong enough. If you decide to go down this path with 4.7 diffs you can get an aftermarket 24 spline diff from ashcroft for the rear, I'm going with a Salsbury series rear axle and converting it to fit

Now for the issue no one mentioned.... you will need wheel spacers or flipped center rims as you will loose alot of turning circle due to the bigger tyres hitting the radius arms

Good luck

Not entirely correct. The Disco 1 has 24 spline axles/diffs front and rear from early 1993.

The Disco 2 axles are unlikely to fit as there are completely different.

Rover car diffs were 3.9's but can be changed to 24 spline and have lockers fitted. Costly if you need to pay someone to rebuild diff heads.
4.7 ratios from early Land Rovers lower gearing too much.
4.1's are generally aftermarket options and best ratio for you plans.

A Salisbury diff is bigger and therefore a backward step as it reduces ground clearance under diff, hence why Dieselboy removed his from the 110.
Even the latest Defenders from 2002 onwards dropped the use of the Salisbury and fitted Rover type diff heads, referred to as "short nose" diff as shorter in pinion length.

Sound advice though re the wheel spacers or larger offset rims.

[lax2wlg]

A Salisbury diff is bigger and therefore a backward step as it reduces ground clearance under diff,
Even the latest Defenders from 2002 onwards dropped the use of the Salisbury and fitted Rover type diff heads,

Not entirely correct.
A large portion of the LR community considered it a massive step backwards when they abandoned the Salisbury diff.

By far the strongest unit ever fitted from the factory, the Salisbury is highly underrated. We all know the Salisbury is actually an American Dana 60 (a one-ton unit) but with smaller side gears/axles for the LR application.

Being a Dana 60, there are infinite lockers/R&P ratios available. One could even swap in some 35 spline side gears (easily available as the D60 was used in a massive range of USDM vehicles), and get some custom axle shafts manufactured. You could even shorten some shafts from a Dodge/Ford pickup truck and have them re-splined to fit the Rover drive flange.

The net result of this would be a far stronger rear end than a standard Rover unit with thousands of dollars thrown at it in aftermarket upgrades. This would allow you to safely and reliably run at least a 35" tyre, negating the loss of ground clearance.

Hell even the KAM site says 'For vehicles with larger than
35” tyres or very high engine horse power it is almost impossible
to entirely prevent breakage at some stage.'

Note that KAM only warranties their products up to a 35" tyre.
A Dana 60 is good for 40" +

[derk]

^^^
do you run an indestructible Sailsbury and 35's on the back that you know will be bulletproof and stick with 30's or 31's on the front to avoid any breakages up that end

[lax2wlg]

The problem with the Salisbury is that LR put 24 spline shafts in it made of cheese, whereas the designers (Dana)put 35 spline minimum in them. The actual carrier is a monster but hampered by the smaller LR shafts. Even though its a full float design, the shafts are the weak spot.

So you get a ring gear of over 10" in diameter with small Rover axle shafts. If put new shafts in it, it would be 'all on'

I know a guy who broke a Salisbury shaft with a 2.25l petrol (making 77bhp when new.) They were factory fitted to LWB Series 3s.

[3DrDisco]

They also made a Salisbury for the front of Land Rovers, though these weren't that common.

I know of a few people that have used a grinder to cut/grind off about 25mm from the bottom of the Salisbury housing. You have to use an aftermarket diff cover, but these are quite cheap.

Keith Kreutzer from Rover Tracks used to do a conversion for the rear Salisbury's so that they could then a larger diameter 30 spline axles. Can't remember what it entailed but think it involved machining out the stub axles slightly.

For around 5-6k you can have some pretty bullet proof axles and diffs that would take a lot of work to kill using KAM, HyTuff or Ashcroft gear. I've had a mate running a full detroit in the front of his Rangie, with Ashcroft CV's and 37's and never a problem and he treated that truck rough.

[churchill]

Wow, for that sort of money would it be worth using diffs from another vehicle?

It's a lot of shagging around I know but you might end up with a wider ratio selection and even stronger driveline. Lax would be probably to suggest a good start point?

[DieselBoy]

Lol, love how these discussions go.

Simple question turns into recommendations on how to build a bullet proof Trophy Truck

It'll handle 35's with care, like any truck with 8" diffs. Bonus being you will have more ground clearance on your 35's than a Hilux, and WAY more than a Safari and a Cruiser, so chances are you will walk easily through the ruts where others are getting hung up and having to hit stuff hard. A Suzuki on 33's will still kick your ass though

Like any truck, a good upgrade when you over tyred it, is to fit chromoly cvs and axles in the long term. In the short term, carry a short side rear axle and a short side front axle and CV as a emergency spare.

Wanna competition wheel it hard??

Then fit some Mog diffs to it

[Disco Gofer]

[quote="De-Ranged"]The D1 I'm pretty certain is still on the 10 spline inner axles the same as the RRC.... this means you have a series of weak points you need to address
First off and the worst, your diff spider gears.... I've eaten these on 31"s they are very weak, if this is a bush truck just weld em if your budget isn't great if you can afford it then lockers will solve this
Next your back axle, being 10 spline it will eventually snap.... a cheap fix is to swop the rear to the newer D2 24 spline axle and diff, they have the same ratio as the D1 (Deseilboy did this to his 110 he drove around Aussy)
As for the front upgrading to the 24 spline front isn't an improvement... I know alot of people will tell you to change, but before you do go onto the Ashcroft Transmission site and search for axle and CV strength.... you will find proof there that the 24 spline axle CV is weaker than the 10 spline axle one.... this gives you a choice stronger CV's and weaker axles or the other way round
My experience says the CV's go before the axles so I have stayed with 10 spline.... on a positive note talking with guys in europe who trial on these axles a good (only done road ks) axle is good for 2-3 seasons of trialing a new one 3-5 seasons... stuff that has been offroad they only consider as spares... If I have issues with this I'll get Howe to make a set of new axles for it
The only other option is a 24 spline front axle from a D2, stage 1 or defender and spend alot of money on CV's and axles, go cheak out the Ashcroft site....

As for different ratio diffs there are a couple of options there is a rover car diff 4.1 ratio that will swop into a 10 spline axle.... don't do this lol they are hard to find and very weak
You can swop landrover series diffs into the 10 spline axles, they are 4.7 ratio catch is they are weaker than the ones you have (this is what I'm doing on my shinny truck) this is due to the small pinion and lesser tooth engagement I'm pegging the diff and will put a new ring and pinion in at a later date if I eat it, with this done I should be plenty strong enough. If you decide to go down this path with 4.7 diffs you can get an aftermarket 24 spline diff from ashcroft for the rear, I'm going with a Salsbury series rear axle and converting it to fit

Now for the issue no one mentioned.... you will need wheel spacers or flipped center rims as you will loose alot of turning circle due to the bigger tyres hitting the radius arms

Good luck!

Thanks for the detailed info!

[Disco Gofer]

oh CRICKEY! I opened a can of "good" worms there..............so much great info. Ok, so its only going be used as a bush/ mud truck for the usual tracks around the Waikato including my club ground at Ngaroma 4x4 Park. Although there are hug holes and bogs im not the type that goes hammer down till some thing breaks. I am also very cautious around wheel spin then impact so button off in time (so far), pretty much go out to have good calculated fun while trying to not bust some thing that will cost me big money for the next trip.
It will be full off road so can really do want I want to make 35" work including sorting the rims offset. I hate to say this BUT should I not just do Safari diffs..........................I have seen a few like that over the years?

[DieselBoy]

Then you need to fit 37's or bigger to get the same ground clearance a you would have with the Rover gear.

Are the 35's just for wank factor ??

If not, and if your considering putting Safari axles under it, then you may as well stick with 33's or 255/85/16s on the standard Rover gear.

You will have the same ground clearance. Which is the whole point of bigger tyres right??

[lax2wlg]

The Rover ring gear is more like 8.5 to 8.8" in diameter

@discogofer
Go out and get a D1, put some 35s on it, wheel it, and let us know how you get on

Worth mentioning that true four wheel drive (lockers) will typically double the load on your axles and shafts as well.

[NJV6]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =838273169

[De-Ranged]

Just a note Ralfie was right about fitment of the later model axle
I'm just in the process of doing this to mine at the moment... fitting 10 spline into a 24 spline housing

Edit
The PCD on the balls is sufficiently different to require filling of holes and redrilling... will look at fitting the 10 spline stuff into the later swivel/hub, will update this if I have any joy

DB has a very valid point
I would also add that 33's would make your gear last longer and accelerate faster (less mass and better gearing)

My truck is intended as my version of DB's camper, that I'll also use as a tow wagon so I won't be hard core offroad.... the Salsbury rear for me is the important bit, going to 35"s was more of an accident due to the gearing options I originally wanted to run 33"s.... but due to the only two gearing options for the diffs (4.7 or 3.54) I went with 35"s to match the 4.7's to the motor and box 33's would have under geared me and the 3.54 gearing would require a sub 30" tyre to stop it stretching the gearing too much

[Disco Gofer]

The only reason I want 35" is for the clearance and to get through our very rough and deep club tracks. I will most likely not take it out of low ratio as its all slow heavy tracks and will be buying a revoked truck anda gutting it. I will place the rego on hold for ever reason and make it full off road.

[turoa]

The only reason I want 35" is for the clearance and to get through our very rough and deep club tracks. I will most likely not take it out of low ratio as its all slow heavy tracks and will be buying a revoked truck anda gutting it. I will place the rego on hold for ever reason and make it full off road.

Just do it mate, Know of plenty of people running 35's on stock rover 24spline gear and having minimal issues

If the need arises you can always go to aftermarket gear or nissan stuff. I reckon landrovers are still one of the best starting platforms out of any trucks you can get your hands on

[Disco Gofer]

The only reason I want 35" is for the clearance and to get through our very rough and deep club tracks. I will most likely not take it out of low ratio as its all slow heavy tracks and will be buying a revoked truck anda gutting it. I will place the rego on hold for ever reason and make it full off road.

Just do it mate, Know of plenty of people running 35's on stock rover 24spline gear and having minimal issues

If the need arises you can always go to aftermarket gear or nissan stuff. I reckon landrovers are still one of the best starting platforms out of any trucks you can get your hands on

I think I will do that, make a start and see what fails and then make the changes as I go along. I just want to have fun on the trips with my daughter and friends and not have to have to highly modified it costs too much to fix or up keep.

[Cheesy_Dave]

What sort of money is a 24 spline diff and axles likely to go for these days?
Ive already broken a trans (on the road) so the 10 spline bits might not last long

[3DrDisco]

What sort of money is a 24 spline diff and axles likely to go for these days?
Ive already broken a trans (on the road) so the 10 spline bits might not last long

Depends if you're just changing over to standard rover gear or looking at upgrading to lockers and chromoly axles. Also if it's front or rear? And if you want to buy local or happy to import?

I have a set of standard 24 spline rear axles if anyone is looking to buy some. I also have a brand new, still in the box Kraiser Auto Locker if anyone is interested.

[DieselBoy]

As said earlier in the thread, most D1's are 24 spline. Just pop the rubber cap of the front drive flange and you will know

What sort of money is a 24 spline diff and axles likely to go for these days?
Ive already broken a trans (on the road) so the 10 spline bits might not last long

[lax2wlg]

So did you get a Discovery yet??

[Team Tonka]

Something not mentioned yet is weight. With a bush hack you are able to gut out everything you don't need, and I mean everything. Avoid heavy bull bars and bar work. Get it down to 1400 kg or so and you will get away with standard drive line and 35" tyres if you avoid silly amounts of wheelspin. Add lockers and you could still be ok if you are sensible with the right foot. Reducing weight makes a huge difference to pretty much everything offroad, including recovering it.