balancing beadlocks?

[zed]

Hi Matt,

I'm swapping from tubes to tubeless with my new simexes and old beadlocks. I balance mine to within 100g per wheel otherwise the shake is unbearable. Go back and get Jim to fit the tyres tubeless with sealer, that's what he's doing for mine.

[Mattman]

Thanks mate. Is Jim at Kapiti tires? Will probably take my rims in to get them balanced.

[MihiT]

the idea is to tighten up all the bolts in a progressive rotation pattern, as they are only m6 bolts and a steel inner bead that is drilled and taped, dont go crazy with the spanner.

As an engineer, that horrfies me. Is that standard practice???

Typically anything round with PCD bolts gets tightened in a criss-cross pattern. if you can imagine a clock you'd tighten them in order: 12, 6, 3, 9,, 1, 7, 4, 10,, 2, 8, 5, 11.

I would be interested to hear other people's ideas on this!

i normally nip up the bolts then go around the rim 4 to 5 times tightening each bolt a quarter to half turn until they are all firm.

this is a good idea though.

[Big]

I would have thought using a torque wrench to make sure all bolts are exactly the same tightness would be a must.. Leaving it to chance is just too dangerous I would assume.. It is what I am going to do once I get some..

[mudlva]

the idea is to tighten up all the bolts in a progressive rotation pattern, as they are only m6 bolts and a steel inner bead that is drilled and taped, dont go crazy with the spanner.

As an engineer, that horrfies me. Is that standard practice???

Typically anything round with PCD bolts gets tightened in a criss-cross pattern. if you can imagine a clock you'd tighten them in order: 12, 6, 3, 9,, 1, 7, 4, 10,, 2, 8, 5, 11.

I would be interested to hear other people's ideas on this!

i normally nip up the bolts then go around the rim 4 to 5 times tightening each bolt a quarter to half turn until they are all firm.

this is a good idea though.

Yep i started to do it that way but found that the adjacent bolts were finger loose after torgueing the bolt up.
The most reliable way that ive found is what i described above.
Ive been running beadlocks for several years now with no issue.
If I'm doing it wrong then show me how to tighten them all consistantly with out the adjacent bolts becoming loose as you tighten the bolt up.

Oh and remember theres 32 of the little buggers as well not 12.

Ive beaten the crap out of my wheels so guessing if its wrong then its not showing it. All the threads are in good nick and the bolts show no sign if stress or deforming.

Time will tell i guess.

But please as an engineer do tell us how to do it as us on the ground floor just probably just dont really know

Whats that saying sbout skinning a cat??

[eins]

I start the first part doing it opposite with bolts at 12,3,6,9 just until they start to get tight. Then use more bolts and go round and round that way you are not putting much strain on bolts as you are only doing up a little bit at a time. If you go opposite you are much more likely to strip thread.

[MihiT]

Yep i started to do it that way but found that the adjacent bolts were finger loose after torgueing the bolt up.
The most reliable way that ive found is what i described above.
Ive been running beadlocks for several years now with no issue.

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so I guess if it works...

Not that there is a lot of pressure behind them, and they're only for clamping, but the theory behind the criss-cross is to remove bias from any side/section, which I guess your method of "five times around the block" helps with.
But I don't think you'll see anyone doing it on pressure vessels!

In fact, google "tightening order of bead lock rims" and see what comes up!:

[PDF]
Tire Mounting Instructions - OMF Performance Products
http://www.omfperformance.com/.../Tire% ... ctions.pdf‎
beadlock inner ring on the wheel and center the tire ... Tighten the bolts in a criss- cross pattern, a few turns at a time, to ensure even pressure on the bead lock ...
[PDF]
TIRE MOUNTING ON BEADLOCK WHEELS - STI Tire & Wheel
http://www.stitireandwheel.com/wp-conte ... nting1.pdf‎
Remove the outer beadlock ring from the wheel. 3. ... wheel and center the tire. 4. ... Tighten the bolts in a criss-cross pattern a few turns at a time to ensure even.
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the ...
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheel ... to-08.html‎
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the wheel in a crisscross pattern. You'll tighten the bolts a little at a time, and yes, this is very ...

If I'm doing it wrong then show me how to tighten them all consistantly with out the adjacent bolts becoming loose as you tighten the bolt up.

But please as an engineer do tell us how to do it as us on the ground floor just probably just dont really know

Whats that saying sbout skinning a cat??

Hang about grandad! I'll tell you how to suck eggs yet!

[mudlva]

Yep i started to do it that way but found that the adjacent bolts were finger loose after torgueing the bolt up.
The most reliable way that ive found is what i described above.
Ive been running beadlocks for several years now with no issue.

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so I guess if it works...

Not that there is a lot of pressure behind them, and they're only for clamping, but the theory behind the criss-cross is to remove bias from any side/section, which I guess your method of "five times around the block" helps with.
But I don't think you'll see anyone doing it on pressure vessels!

In fact, google "tightening order of bead lock rims" and see what comes up!:

[PDF]
Tire Mounting Instructions - OMF Performance Products
http://www.omfperformance.com/.../Tire% ... ctions.pdf‎
beadlock inner ring on the wheel and center the tire ... Tighten the bolts in a criss- cross pattern, a few turns at a time, to ensure even pressure on the bead lock ...
[PDF]
TIRE MOUNTING ON BEADLOCK WHEELS - STI Tire & Wheel
http://www.stitireandwheel.com/wp-conte ... nting1.pdf‎
Remove the outer beadlock ring from the wheel. 3. ... wheel and center the tire. 4. ... Tighten the bolts in a criss-cross pattern a few turns at a time to ensure even.
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the ...
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheel ... to-08.html‎
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the wheel in a crisscross pattern. You'll tighten the bolts a little at a time, and yes, this is very ...

If I'm doing it wrong then show me how to tighten them all consistantly with out the adjacent bolts becoming loose as you tighten the bolt up.

But please as an engineer do tell us how to do it as us on the ground floor just probably just dont really know

Whats that saying sbout skinning a cat??

Hang about grandad! I'll tell you how to suck eggs yet!

Dont tell me how to suck eggs buddy its best to show hows its done. Now if you are a good engineer then you would be able to suck eggs yourself in at least three differant ways with an explanation on each particular method that you choose to do.

Me personnaly. I dont like eggs so guessing that is me out of the suck eggs que.
Although you did mention pudding.

[MihiT]

Now if you are a good engineer then you would be able to suck eggs yourself in at least three differant ways with an explanation on each particular method that you choose to do.

I never said good...
Each to their own eh.

[mudlva]

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so I guess if it works...

Not that there is a lot of pressure behind them, and they're only for clamping, but the theory behind the criss-cross is to remove bias from any side/section, which I guess your method of "five times around the block" helps with.
But I don't think you'll see anyone doing it on pressure vessels!


Hang about grandad!

back to subject and as this is a open forum on what peps do and don't do, and since you have had loads to do with bead locking rims, then of course you must well be right although I've have seen many a person strip the threads on the bead by using the opposite side method as you are wanting people to follow.

I'm just describing the method in how i do it and hay if you want to do it another way then be my guest, as an "old man" what would i know compared to your youthful engineering prowess.

Mate i just dig holes for a living

[derk]

despite any engineering theory after you've clamped few beadlock rings down you learn the easy way and the hard way to do it and in the process you also learn how not to strip all the threads

[MihiT]

You seem to have taken way more offence than was intended!

It's far too nice a day to be grumpy. Cheer up "old man"!

[mudlva]

You seem to have taken way more offence than was intended!

It's far too nice a day to be grumpy. Cheer up "old man"!

ah an old Chinese saying "one can not be sad or depressed with sun in your eyes"
im in the sun lots so no reason for me being "old or grumpy"

im going back to digging holes, regards

[eins]

Yep i started to do it that way but found that the adjacent bolts were finger loose after torgueing the bolt up.
The most reliable way that ive found is what i described above.
Ive been running beadlocks for several years now with no issue.

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so I guess if it works...

Not that there is a lot of pressure behind them, and they're only for clamping, but the theory behind the criss-cross is to remove bias from any side/section, which I guess your method of "five times around the block" helps with.
But I don't think you'll see anyone doing it on pressure vessels!

In fact, google "tightening order of bead lock rims" and see what comes up!:

[PDF]
Tire Mounting Instructions - OMF Performance Products
http://www.omfperformance.com/.../Tire% ... ctions.pdf‎
beadlock inner ring on the wheel and center the tire ... Tighten the bolts in a criss- cross pattern, a few turns at a time, to ensure even pressure on the bead lock ...
[PDF]
TIRE MOUNTING ON BEADLOCK WHEELS - STI Tire & Wheel
http://www.stitireandwheel.com/wp-conte ... nting1.pdf‎
Remove the outer beadlock ring from the wheel. 3. ... wheel and center the tire. 4. ... Tighten the bolts in a criss-cross pattern a few turns at a time to ensure even.
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the ...
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheel ... to-08.html‎
To tighten the aluminum beadlock ring, work your way around the wheel in a crisscross pattern. You'll tighten the bolts a little at a time, and yes, this is very ...

If I'm doing it wrong then show me how to tighten them all consistantly with out the adjacent bolts becoming loose as you tighten the bolt up.

But please as an engineer do tell us how to do it as us on the ground floor just probably just dont really know

Whats that saying sbout skinning a cat??

Hang about grandad! I'll tell you how to suck eggs yet!

Oh another Google Engineer!
Can see you never actually done it, especially with your comment "Not that there is a lot of pressure behind them" because if you have, you would know that until you get it fully seated there is a lot of strain on the bolts clapping it up especially with new tyres.

If you need some logic to for your armchair thinking, think of it like easing the top of a very hard pant tin without damaging the lip at all, you would not do that in a criss cross more like ease it round applying a little bit of pressure moving it only a little as you go and go round a few times to get it all the way off.
you go.

[Mattman]

Got my beadlocks all fitted up. Running tubes for now. Have a Repair kit and a spare tube as well as a simex spare.

I used three pairs of vice grips to initially pull the ring in and hold it in place. I then did 12 3 6 9 and then filled in the gaps Just to finger tightness. I went around the rim three times nipping the bolts up.

There is a massive amount of force on the ring. Going around felt the best.

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice.

[MihiT]

In what order do you all do up your lug nuts?

[Mattman]

I was very surprised at the amount of force needed to seat the beadlocks rings. As the bolts are only M6 going into a 6mm thick ring there isn't enough thread to pull them down diagonally. You have to go around.

Comparing them to how you tighten wheel bolts is stupid.

[mudlva]

Yeh go the google engineer. He who knows the best.

[Checkerhead]

In what order do you all do up your lug nuts?

1, 3, 5, 2, 4, 6.

I used three pairs of vice grips to initially pull the ring in and hold it in place. I then did 12 3 6 9 and then filled in the gaps Just to finger tightness. I went around the rim three times nipping the bolts up.

That's basically what I do.

I pull my beadlocks down in a vaguely crisscross pattern, but initially those bolts have a hell of a lot of tension on them, especially if it's a new tyre (this is before you have got 36 bolts in, and includes the "3 pair of vice grips" type tricks). It's a pretty tedious job and I am usually around three or five times before I get both rings mated yet alone torqued. Then I go around doing every fourth bolt, until all have been done (obviously skipping a couple at the end of every rotation so I don't just hit the same 9 bolts) Then I go round every second bolt and finally every bolt. Different process every time, but something like that.

I do the "fourth bolt" thing as a compromise between crisscross and actually getting all the bolts. I haven't the brain power/will power to accurately do a criss cross for 36 bolts. Now if it were to be doing 36 bolts on something that held a thousand PSI that might be different.

That was long winded.

I have had bolts come loose, no stripped threads though. Plenty of rock/stump damage to rings and bolt heads, so I'm not surprised that the odd one comes loose.

Always had tubes in mine, might try without having read all this.

[Checkerhead]

Yeh go the google engineer. He who knows the best.

Come on Bro, you are usually one of the more cheerful and encouraging guys on here (with helpful tech and useful experience) We all know it takes a few brain cells to be a good builder (especially one who can turn his hand to steel fab as well). Just because the "engineer" obviously hasn't done a beadlock himself doesn't mean that the info he found from a few beadlock companies on google is wrong. But again, we all know there is a difference between "ideal best practice" and "real world practical"

Cheer up mate. Go build something awesome on your truck, post up some pic's and make me jealous.

[skid]

[MihiT]

Just to be clear, I didn't claim to know best. My initial post included the words "I would be interested to hear opinions on this"

Google only came into it three or four posts deep.

No, I don't run beadlocks.
My original sentiment comes from an engineering point, not a beadlocking one.

Thanks for the learning, despite the grumpy prickish tone in which it was given.

[MihiT]

Comparing them to how you tighten wheel bolts is stupid.

I agree!

(I only asked the question. YOU made the comparison.)

[mudlva]

internet-troll-1.jpeg

hahaha
dont know who is worse at times

im finished with double shifts atm so heading out to shed to figure out my rear rad mess

[mudlva]

Comparing them to how you tighten wheel bolts is stupid.

I agree!

(I only asked the question. YOU made the comparison.)

mate you are a real DICK!!

you stated that the bolts should be tightened in a opposite method and that the method i described horrified you based on your youth based engineering skills.

i real life all you will achieve is ripping the threads apart and stuffing the rim or bolts using your instructed methods!!

i glad mattman used a bit of nous and achieved good tight bolts without wrecking the threads, as this is the only ideal outcome possible, anything less is not worth the risk

[MihiT]

you stated that the bolts should be tightened in a opposite method

Where?

[mudlva]

you stated that the bolts should be tightened in a opposite method

Where?

MihiT wrote:

As an engineer, that horrfies me. Is that standard practice???

Typically anything round with PCD bolts gets tightened in a criss-cross pattern. if you can imagine a clock you'd tighten them in order: 12, 6, 3, 9,, 1, 7, 4, 10,, 2, 8, 5, 11.

[eins]

you stated that the bolts should be tightened in a opposite method

Where?

MihiT wrote:

As an engineer, that horrfies me. Is that standard practice???

Typically anything round with PCD bolts gets tightened in a criss-cross pattern. if you can imagine a clock you'd tighten them in order: 12, 6, 3, 9,, 1, 7, 4, 10,, 2, 8, 5, 11.

MihiT I think why you are getting suck a rough ride is IF YOU DO NOT REALY KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING DONT COMENT LIKE YOU DO KNOW. The problem is if people follow your advice you post they will have problems, and problems that may cost them $ to fix properly.

[derk]

As an engineer, that horrfies me. Is that standard practice???

Typically anything round with PCD bolts gets tightened in a criss-cross pattern. if you can imagine a clock you'd tighten them in order: 12, 6, 3, 9,, 1, 7, 4, 10,, 2, 8, 5, 11.

MihiT I think why you are getting suck a rough ride is IF YOU DO NOT REALY KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING DONT COMENT LIKE YOU DO KNOW. The problem is if people follow your advice you post they will have problems, and problems that may cost them $ to fix properly.

shit you jokers are all looking for a punchup he did say typically and typically he is correct but beadlocks don't really come under the category of typically there's typically a few variables to factor in to get the rings to clamp up and seated properly and tight

[MihiT]

MihiT I think why you are getting suck a rough ride is IF YOU DO NOT REALY KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING DONT COMENT LIKE YOU DO KNOW. The problem is if people follow your advice you post they will have problems, and problems that may cost them $ to fix properly.

Did I?
Sorry if all those questions i asked, about how people do it, made me seem like I knew more than I basically stated I didn't.

Is that standard practice???
I would be interested to hear other people's ideas on this!

I even goolged it to check!