Roll cage specifications ? ORANZ

[MUDFINDER]

Hi all

Got a question about roll cage specifications.. I've changed direction with my truck's intentions. I'm making alot of changes and now turning it into somewhat of a winch challenge truck. Now, I just wanted to clarify do you have to build a exco-cage to ORANZ specifications to compete in winch challenges in New Zealand? Obviously, there will be some sort of safety standard. I've had a quick look on 4x4challenges at this particular form http://www.4x4challenges.org.nz/downloads/19 The "Roll cage compliance form" but I'm unsure if that standard is for internal roll cages rather than exco-cages OR does it cover both?

Have any of you had any experience with this and can anyone shed some light on this for me please

[Checkerhead]

Exo cages are a little tricky in so much as none of the rules specifically cover them (not all aspects anyway). There is a little bit of interpreting to do.

I have built both of my cages and a mates all to oranz as in my eyes, it's both sensable and reasonably easy to work with.

For north island rules you can build it to one of four standard (but the whole cage must stick to just one set of rules, you can't pick and choose). CCDA, MANZ, NZ4WDA or ORANZ.
CCDA is the Aus offroad racing rules. More strict than ours but easy enough to work with. MANZ is essentially for road cars and in my mind both too light and too hard to understand (for an exo). NZ4WDA rules are good but in my opinion make for a pretty heavy cage.

Hope that helps.

[MUDFINDER]

Exo cages are a little tricky in so much as none of the rules specifically cover them (not all aspects anyway). There is a little bit of interpreting to do.

I have built both of my cages and a mates all to oranz as in my eyes, it's both sensable and reasonably easy to work with.

For north island rules you can build it to one of four standard (but the whole cage must stick to just one set of rules, you can't pick and choose). CCDA, MANZ, NZ4WDA or ORANZ.
CCDA is the Aus offroad racing rules. More strict than ours but easy enough to work with. MANZ is essentially for road cars and in my mind both too light and too hard to understand (for an exo). NZ4WDA rules are good but in my opinion make for a pretty heavy cage.

Hope that helps.

Thanks mate! Appreciate it! I had a good discussion with a friend of mine just now who actually wrote some of the standards and is part of the committee on 4x4challenges. The safety standard covers both exco-cages and internal roll cages. The bare minimum to comply with the competition rules is a 6 point roll cage - similar to this

however, the exco-cage has to meet the same standard as the internal roll cage. This is all a big learning experience for me, being my first roll cage that i will have fabricated.

[derk]

exo's are typically made up of lots of bent bits of tube that aren't as strong as straight bits of tube a bent piece of tube will bend easier than a straight piece and they're also really difficult to get triangulated bracing into compared to how you can diagonally brace and strengthen an internal cage hence exo's easily squash out of shape when you fall over exo's are also really good at catching branches and trees and shit and getting jammed up between the cage and bodywork making new dents and doing more damage just a few bits to consider while still in the planning and research stages

[Checkerhead]

The safety standard covers both exco-cages and internal roll cages.

True, but none of the four standards that 4x4 challenges accept specifically say much about exos. They are all written from the perspective of a normal cage. So you have to deduce a few things about how the standards apply to exos. Totally doable though.

Derk makes a couple of good points. Keep everything as close to the body as possible. My main hoop on my first truck stuck out 40mm from the body. It sucked me on to trees from time to time (denting the B pillar) and another time caught a stick that twisted in and skewered my Trans cooler (mounted about 300 mm inboard and only 70 mm from the back of the body). Have seen plenty of front bush bars that pack mud and clay so hard they dirt ends up caving in the front guards.

What vehicle are you caging? Make sure you post pics for us when you start making physical progress.

[MUDFINDER]

The safety standard covers both exco-cages and internal roll cages.

True, but none of the four standards that 4x4 challenges accept specifically say much about exos. They are all written from the perspective of a normal cage. So you have to deduce a few things about how the standards apply to exos. Totally doable though.

Derk makes a couple of good points. Keep everything as close to the body as possible. My main hoop on my first truck stuck out 40mm from the body. It sucked me on to trees from time to time (denting the B pillar) and another time caught a stick that twisted in and skewered my Trans cooler (mounted about 300 mm inboard and only 70 mm from the back of the body). Have seen plenty of front bush bars that pack mud and clay so hard they dirt ends up caving in the front guards.

What vehicle are you caging? Make sure you post pics for us when you start making physical progress.

Oh okay i see what you mean.. I suppose it's quite a grey area! I have alot of thinking and planning to do before I can begin! I'm doing the cage on my terrano which I have now stubby'd (not at all finished yet)

[mudsurfv6]

The bare minimum to comply with the competition rules is a 6 point roll cage - similar to this

photo from above hasn't come through.

for an internal cage.
what happens if you want to keep the back seats but not have a (front to back) rear brace going across back doors? do you have to put removable ones in.
is it allowed if you put a main hoop (with diagonals across) behind front seats ( b pillar) then another main hoop behind rear seats (c pillar) with a horizontal bar (front to back) between b + c pillar hoops at the top of hoops by the top of the door? so basically just extending length of cage by a pillar.
then the rear braces back off the c pillar hoop?
know what I mean?
because I want to eventually cut the body down behind c pillar and keep the back seats usable. maybe easier to take b pillar braces out and put in when needed?

[Checkerhead]

for an internal cage.
what happens if you want to keep the back seats but not have a (front to back) rear brace going across back doors? do you have to put removable ones in.
is it allowed if you put a main hoop (with diagonals across) behind front seats ( b pillar) then another main hoop behind rear seats (c pillar) with a horizontal bar (front to back) between b + c pillar hoops at the top of hoops by the top of the door? so basically just extending length of cage by a pillar.
then the rear braces back off the c pillar hoop?
know what I mean?

If I understand you correctly then I believe you would be legal (not road legal, but comp legal). The problem I see is that your rear stay needs to be on at least a 30 degree angle (from vertical), and you truck doesn't look long enough to do that if you are coming from a second main hoop that would be behind the rear seats.

What I would suggest is a "normal" 6 point cage and try to build the (front) "main hoop" far enough back that you could have the rear stays not effect the rear door access. Then simply build another hoop to protect your future rear passengers.

Got me?

[mudsurfv6]

should have put its a 185 surf, be cut off behind back seats at some stage.

What I would suggest is a "normal" 6 point cage and try to build the (front) "main hoop" far enough back that you could have the rear stays not effect the rear door access. Then simply build another hoop to protect your rear passengers. Got me?

think so. so the main hoop behind front seats be a bit further behind seats than normal (but not in the way of rear seat access) and put long rear stays back to chassis? problem would be lining up rear stay from hoop to chassis because heads would be where stay goes.

[Crash bandicoot]

Or go 8 point extending the portion over the rear passengers and adding two hoops then running the stays down to the back of the chassi, this would also allow for a horizontal X brace across the roof.

[mudsurfv6]

Or go 8 point extending the portion over the rear passengers and adding two hoops then running the stays down to the back of the chassi, this would also allow for a horizontal X brace across the roof.

that was exactly my first question, just put into a lot less words. will be the most simple I think.

[darinz]

Just be careful with double cab options as there is a requirement to have bracing in the main hoop and the main hoop must be close to the drivers seat. Some rules specify the distance behind and others don't. By bracing in the main hoop it means that either within the hoop or the top of the hoop to the footings of the back stays. If I was signing off you cage and you turned up with an X in the roof of a double main hoop as the only bracing for the main hoop then I wouldn't let it as that doesn't comply with any of the specified rules. (and yes some people have raced with this setup but that doesn't mean its OK) BUT you can fit a removable brace in the main hoop!

I'll be really blunt about exo cages. They are primarily designed to protect the body and not you're life. If you serious about protecting your life then build an internal cage first then put a few bars externally to protect the body.

[mudsurfv6]

sorry to hi jack your thread mudfinder, but this is all probably relevant to your build aswell.

there is a requirement to have bracing in the main hoop and the main hoop must be close to the drivers seat.

I was picturing a cross in the hoop behind front seats, a cross in hoop behind rear seats and a cross between those two hoops in the roof corner to corner with bars from corner of front hoop to corner of rear hoop above doors.
hoops as close to back of seats as possible.

[mudsurfv6]

BUT you can fit a removable brace in the main hoop!

can you have removable rear stays? because if I use the rear door behind rear seats then the rear stays will need to go through rear window. if they are removable I can just put rear window down when I need to have the stays in place.

[Crash bandicoot]

From memory The first incarnation of Hamish MArsdens D1NZ silvia had the rear stays running litteraly through the rear glass, with rubber gromets. If it wasn't his one there was one similar.

but here is an idea why not extend the top bar's straight through the top of the back of the cab then down toward the back. hard to describe, but the same principle just not through the glass. using big rubber gromets to allow the flex between cab and chassi.

Imagine if you will a convention roll cage but running through the back of the cab to meet up with a conventional looking type roll bar that you see on the back of most well side utes but using steel to ORANZ spec. .

[Crash bandicoot]

Or use perspex for the rear window then it wont matter.?

or failing that use the seats from a 2 door coupe that can fold right forward and just have two door access for passengers.

[mudsurfv6]

Imagine if you will a convention roll cage but running through the back of the cab to meet up with a conventional looking type roll bar that you see on the back of most well side utes but using steel to ORANZ spec. .

that would work, put the rear hoop outside instead of inside. so the top bars between front and rear hoops go through body above rear window. then the window can still go up and down.

only problem is the rear stays are steeper the further the rear hoop gets moved back. are there angles that they are supposed to be within?

[Checkerhead]

Think oranz says minimum 30 degrees from verticle.

[mudsurfv6]

30 degrees

that's quite steep so can work with that.