V8 Land Rover project

[oldyella]

Haven't been up to much really, but it was WOF time and the cut off exhaust at the rear diff was really a bit to loud and would have never passed a WOF.

So, I added in a 2nd coby and picked up some scrap stainless pipe and bends for $50 and whipped up this.







Other than the exhaust, I think it should fly through it's 2nd WOF.

Also, the Simex are up for sale, I'll get an add up in the for sale section or something before I put them on trademe. 32 x 9.5 r16. Maybe 1/3 worn but I'll have a measure up. Nice sharp edges and f-all rock damage. $1000 ono. PM me if interested.

I've bought some new Federal 265 75 R16's which should turn up this week.

Also was up at Race to the sky as a recovery vehicle, thought I was going to need to give this Toyota a tow but then it got going good enough to park up. It was running a 450hp S/C lexus, sounded bloody good

[oldyella]

I've been struggling to find a way to isolate the main battery feed that has enough current carrying capacity to take the winch which is why the winch has sat on the garage floor for about two years

I was doing some googling and found SCA sell this

http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/online-store/products/SCA-Battery-Master-Switch-250-1000-Amp.aspx?pid=214456&menuFrom=40605

250A continuous and 1000a for 15 seconds, sounds like it should cut the mustard... I was wondering if anyone had used them?

[wjw]

I thought about that, did alot of research and found I would need a 500Amp one for the super winch.

[Mattman]

I did quite a bit of research and ended up just running both batteries permanently disconnected. I have a quick disconnect on the positive lead of the main battery which allows me to decouple the second battery if need be.

I couldn't find a switch that could handle 500-600amps for any period of time.

[wjw]

http://www.rvworldstore.co.nz/voltage-s ... -motorised

[derk]

if you want to avoid super chink stuff google BEP Battery Isolators mate you can get them local in NZ

[Swamped]

I have an isolator that looks like this. It does 450a continuous and something ridiculous for short periods.
Has a proper key rather than the silly plastic things you often see so would hopefully help prevent a theft..



Runs all starting and winch load through it. Only an EP9 12v winch though so nothing massive. Running 60mm cable and seems to be fine.

[wjw]

if you want to avoid super chink stuff google BEP Battery Isolators mate you can get them local in NZ

from memory http://www.smartmarine.co.nz/ sell those

[klompy]

Would it work out better if you put two side by side, is that in series or is that a dumb idea.

[oldyella]

That switch looks like the go, I had a looK on that website but could only find a slightly upgraded version of the SCA switch

http://www.smartmarine.co.nz/products/electrical/battery-accessories/58327/701-pm-mini-panel-mount-battery-selector-switch-2/details/

[derk]

if you want to go for a good isolation switch with serious continuous ampage rating get yourself a BEP 720, it'll burn a $130 size hole in your pocket but still good value for what your getting

[Mattman]

That's very good value. I was looking at a lot more than that.

[BadCo]

Another option is Blue Sea Systems

https://www.bluesea.com/products/3000/H ... ery_Switch

600A continuous and 900A for five minutes, quality marine product too.

[oldyella]

Riteo,

This BEP range seems to be the go with quite a few different products which look like they fit the bill. Thanks for getting me on the right track!

Now, how to set up the batteries properly is the next question...

So, If I got the BEP 720, I could only have one main circuit coming up from the back into the engine bay.

But, if I got the BEP721, I could add a second battery in the back under the deck next to the existing one, run two cables to the switch and the output cable to a DC busbar in the engine bay which is then connected to everything, starter, winch, fuse box and alternator. This means I could switch the batteries however I want when winching, presumably, use Battery 1 say, then if it stalls and won't start, switch to battery 2, and fire it up. Normal running around, have both batteries in parallel. Only down side seems is reduced amperage ratings vs the BEP720:

350A continuous when connected to one battery or the other, 500A continuous rating when connected to both and 1500A cranking rating.

I checked my correspondence with Runva and they said I need a 400A continuos rating to drive the 9500lb winch I've got. 350A continuous and 1500A cranking isn't a mile off... especially as I don't really need a "continuous" rating as it's only going to get a few minutes of abuse at a time. Plus, if it's a short pull, I could just run the batteries in parallel with the 500A continuous rating and no worries of running them flat.

This place seems to be the go:

http://www.absolutemarine.co.nz/products/index_dynamic.php/product/6256

And for $130, it's not going to break the bank.

[BadCo]

How about a dual battery controller?

http://www.traxide.com.au/isolators/usi ... winch.html

[DieselBoy]

Some first hand experience from running a Runva EWX9500Q on the winch challenge Zook.

We had a 120amp alt and twin NS70 starting batteries. Everything ran off those two batteries. Starting batteries because of their quick recovery time after a winch, which were usually short cause it's a Zook Deep cycle and marine batteries took to long to recharge between winches and between stages. Did try them though.

The best winch performance was gained by running both batteries in parralelle at all times. It gave us the longest/best capacity available from the two batteries, even winching at night with all the lights on, both fans on, etc

No point having a perfectly good battery sitting there doing nothing, when it could be helping give the winch some more grunt!!!!

We never had an issue with the batteries getting so flat that they wouldn't start the engine after a stall mid winch. Could happen in theory I suppose.

Based on the above experience, I would just stick your isolator on the main power feed between the batteries and the solenoid pack. When your winching, your pulling all that goodness from both batteries

My only other advice is to make sure you have a volt gauge in your cab, and if your that guy that has to winch himself through, then turn around and winch the next 6 trucks through, make sure you give your batteries a chance to recharge each time between winches. Actual battery voltage will be shown with the engine off, ignition switched on. When the engines running, it's just gonna show what the alternator is pumping out.

The bigger your alternator, the more rapidly your twin starting batteries will recover. We found the NS70s took 10min at high idle with the 120amp alt.

Love your rig BTW

[NJV6]

Yea agree with dieselboy, I use twin ns70s on the heavy old Paj and have never had a problem with betteries running flat. Both connected at all times, no switch, no relays, just a 50mm cable. I do disconnect one from time to time to check they are both still going fine as with two you may never know if one is failing.
Also the VSR/dual battery controllers would be ok if you really didn't want to use one battery for the winch but you can't use them for winching or smoke will be emitted and my reason for twin batteries was for max grunt and the est way for that is wired in together ( and cheap )

[BadCo]

That dual battery controller I linked is designed for winching and is well proven over the ditch, but not sure about being used in a challenge truck!

[Crash bandicoot]

I tried the balancing split charge route and found it a pain as one alternator couldn't keep up with serious continuous 30 meter line pulls.

So I went the opposite way Instead of trying to switch 4-6 hundred amps at the batteries, switch the charge from twin alternators

I run two 770cca batteries and two alternators, normal operation sees them working independent of each other, one runs the truck and lights the other the winch,

the individual out put of the alternators are 130 AMPS and have installed a switching relay that can divert the charge from the main alternator to the second battery so both alternators are charging the winch battery. it(relay) is hooked up to to the (Winch in) remote wire so when the winch starts working to pull it's load the relay switches both alternators to the winch battery..

This way the maximum current draw that has to be switched is only 130 amps off the alternator.(it's max out put) and you can buy off the shelf bits from a sparky for that. nothing too special.

When doing a single line pull under full load the second battery with both Alternators working still maintains just over 12 volts.

I also can switch it manually on a dash switch which also means if one battery or alternator goes dead the other alternator/battery can do both duties.(albiet not to it's full potential)

This way you don't need to have a balancing system. as once the load is off the circuts seperate again and the Alt's can detect true voltage at the individual batteries

[DieselBoy]

That's a whole lotta tech for not much gain?

Your still only using one battery for winching when you have two available in the the truck to the job.

If your batteries are in parallel, they can't become unbalanced.

The Alterntor does next to nothing when winching, your pumping out a measly 120amps and your winch is pulling in excess of 700amps. Alternator is best thought of as just being there for charging the battery's up when your all done

By switching both Alternators to the winch battery and feeding it 240amps it will help things along, and definitely charge up a tad quicker when your done if you don't frizz the battery first, but in the mean time, your running your truck off the other battery with no alternator feeding it while winching. Counter productive?

I dunno man, maybe if the 2nd Alt was 24v and your winch system was cranking 24v I could understand it. Or even if the 2nd Alt was feeding dual winch batteries?

Interesting, but over complicated. Simple is king for reliability in the bush

Also, your relay isn.t going to switch the main power feed off to the winch. The winch will always be live with your system. Unless you fit a isolator between batteries and winch, you ain't gonna be able to isolate the power to the winch, which is what the O.P was asking about




.

[derk]

keep it simple mate as said a bit further up the thread if you want to use 2 batteries just strap them together it'll work fine and really effectively unless your doing really hard trips with long sustained winching through endless bottomless bogs for days non stop, if you want to do that bolt a pto winch on the front of the thing but still throw a battery isolation switch in somewhere its a good piece of mind if smoke starts pouring out of something or the engine or winch wont shut down run 2 in series one in the centre of the cab accessible from driver and passenger and one under the bonnet

[oldyella]

Hmmmmm plenty to think about there!

The reason I want a switch is my battery, soon to be batteries, have to be located in a barstard of a place under the flat deck and it's not a case of just popping the bonnet and whipping a battery terminal off if a cable shorts out somewhere in the laberenth of pipes and wires under the hood.

At the moment I'm running a single 720cca commercial truck starting battery from Repco. I was just thinking of getting a second identical one.

But I have brought a s2a 109 (I don't know why, I think maybe it was because the green land rover has been too reliable lately, I'll start a thread if anything interesting happens) which needs a battery, so two new ns70s batteries could be on the cards, I guess the dual batteries, each 520cca would give 1040cca total which sounds like a lot. If I got a second 720cca battery, I would have 1440cca What are they worth each?

From memory the alternator is 100A rated so I thought that would be OK, but the charge time is definitely going to be longer, but, they should do more winching before they go flat? Not sure if you can get a higher rated disco alternator but for the work it will probably end up doing, I don't think having to wait 5 or 10 extra mins for the batteries to recover will worry me, as long as I'm not stuck

Two alternators makes some good sense for heaps of charging capacity. But I want to keep the air con pump for on board air and possibly room for a supercharger... I'm slowly convincing myself I need more power and that increased compression won't cut it. Told that to the missus and she gave me permission to get lockers to keep me distracted I think

At any rate, this BEP721 switch sounds like the go because it will be rated for 500A continuous in parallel mode and that's the best way to run. Cheers DB.

I think recommend electric winch setup should be a tech article. Would have been bloody handy having this info saved and easy to find.

Cheers!

[wjw]

If you want nice big cable to run from the front to the back... this is the cheapest I could find in the right size to run a winch, based on needing 530Amps (stall rating of my superwinch) running the cable from the batteries at the front of the 80 series to the rear cross member.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voodoo-Power-wi ... OC:US:3160

Even my sparkies couldnt beat the price on stranded

[wjw]

BEP 721... $96NZD from the US

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bep-721-Heavy-D ... 3f4ae6fd0e

or $116NZD inc freight here:

http://www.marine-deals.co.nz/bep-721-h ... ttery-bank

[Crash bandicoot]

if you are going to run batteries in parrellel you are going to have balance issues. soon as one battery hits 14 volts the alt stops feeding them leaving the other ethier undercharged, or the opposite happens and overcharges the one that is working properly.... ok if batteries are in series on a truck but doesnt work for a parrellel circut... and as the unbalancing occours the longervit goes on the worse it gets.. i know i tried it with two heavy commercialbatteries. it works for a while but then one day u will pop the bonnet and there will be acid leaking out of one of them.

i will add the circut i use bridges both alts and batteries, the relay is triggered by the winch in remote wire... it is only a signal wire to the relay.

[churchill]

There's a special way you can wire them up to give an even charge and discharge, it's pretty simple but better if the batteries are side by side.

Take the positive from one battery and the negative from the other when wired up in parallel and make sure the parallel links are the same length.

I'm trying to find the link to the website and will post it when I find it.

[DieselBoy]

if you are going to run batteries in parrellel you are going to have balance issues. soon as one battery hits 14 volts the alt stops feeding them leaving the other ethier undercharged, or the opposite happens and overcharges the one that is working properly.... ok if batteries are in series on a truck but doesnt work for a parrellel circut... and as the unbalancing occours the longervit goes on the worse it gets.. i know i tried it with two heavy commercialbatteries. it works for a while but then one day u will pop the bonnet and there will be acid leaking out of one of them.

i will add the circut i use bridges both alts and batteries, the relay is triggered by the winch in remote wire... it is only a signal wire to the relay.

I still disagree. I think you are getting muddled up between batteries run in series in a 24v system and batteries in parralell in a 12v system.

Batteries in parallel do not have "balance issues" as you put it.

Infact, leave two batteries connected in parralell and they equalize the charge between themselves until they both have the exact same charge between them.

If the batteries are in parralell, as far as your alternator is concerned, they are just one big 12v battery. If you have a crook battery in the system, the good battery will suffer as a result, as the charge will always be trying to equalize between the two, and the crook battery will be always drawing on the good battery.

I think you are referring to a 24v system where the batteries are in series. If you draw off the 12v battery in the 24v system, you are going to have "balance issues", and a charge equalizer is required.

Two 12v batteries in parralell do have any of those issues. If you still don't believe me, go pop the bonnet of a 80 series cruiser, most of the 1kz powered surfs, and the odd terrano/mistral spec'd for some weird overseas market. They all come from factory with two 12v batteries in parralell. No "balance issues" there.

Anyways, I have more than said my bit, and just wanted to provide balance to the discussion as you can get way over complicated and carried away with all sorts of fancy stuff that ya just don't need

[wjw]

[wjw]

This is what causes problems:



In which case you need:



Good write up of the issue here:

http://bus.getdave.com/Docs/12Von24V/

[oldyella]

BEP721 ordered. $118 including rural delivery

You can charge batteries in both series and parallel, but if you have a dud battery in either case, it will cause problems. Neither configuration will cause damage to healthy batteries.

If you have a dud battery in the 24v series config, you may get a voltage imbalance across the two battery's and damage the good battery. So say 6v across the shagged battery because the cells have shorted out, and 18v across the good battery, which will cook it.

If you have a dud battery in the 12v parallel config, with the motor switched off, the healthy battery will discharge into the dud battery and go flat. Charging will always be balanced but the dud battery won't charge up, and discharge your good battery.

None of the above is a problem it both batteries are healthy. It's a good idea to measure and monitor the voltage across the terminals of each battery and catch the problem early so you only have to replace one battery. You can measure it directly across the terminals of each battery for the 24v series config. For the parallel 12v config you need to disconnect the two batteries for sometime then measure.

With this BEP721 switch, I can check that each individual battery winds the truck over at a similar speed, monitoring battery condition pretty crudely, but better than nothing.

Wjw is right, a 12v takeoff from one battery of a 24v system causes imbalance.