Question on Surf wide axle conversion

[driftinglobo]

Hi,

I have bought a new ( 1st gen Surf ) toy for me,it has fair amount of mods and it had failed its WOF on too much gap between the rotor and caliper and not enough of pad contact. Also the edge of pads are ground at an angle to mask the issue. (This was a supprise as it is cert ed and had been WoF ed like this for years by the previous owner.)

So what I have is the following an IFS rotor bolted to an IFS hub via a spacer ring.I think I have IFS calipers but not sure.
I have read a lot about this conversion, also I have read "De-Ranged" very well written post.
(viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3543)

Now my questions:
-What is the track with should be with this conversion? Mine front axle is 1501mm (59 inch) flange to flange and the rear axle is 1475mm or 58 inch.
- Is this sound ok? Or this difference will cause issues. Every article I read said,that one of the reasion for this conversion to even out the difference between the front and rear axle.
Since it is the hubs that gives the flange to flange measurement, is there a difference between a 1st and 2nd gen surf IFS hub? I have measuerd a 2nd gen surf IFS hub and it is the same as what I have.

If they are the same than I just have to buy a spacer like the "SNR IFS Hub Spacer Kit" and a FJ 60 rotor and the issue is solved.

Thank you for reading this post and let me know if am on the right path?

Regards

Lobo

[Smurf]

Are you talking about the early solid axled Surf? If so you may still have the narrower rear hilux rear diff, swapping to the rear diff from an IFS Surf (*N61) will give you a wider rear.

[driftinglobo]

Hi

To my understanding the 1st gen solid front axle surfs are 55 inch track width and the IFS s are 58. I have read this somewhere but now I cannot find it again so I need some one to conform this.
I think mine is a 1st gen IFS surf with SAS and may have RUF but I did not yet conform this by measurement.
Thanks
Lobo

[Checkerhead]

So far as I know...
All solid axle fronts are the same width.
All IFS fronts are the same width.
All rear axles are narrow if they came out of a solid axle truck, wide if they came out of an IFS truck.

The above info applies to 30, 60, 100 and 130 series Hiluxs/Surfs.

Most vehicles have a wider track on the front than the rear, so your 1 inch difference sounds good to me.

I think what you have is a standard rear wider axle (from an IFS truck) and you have spacers on the front to make your solid front axle match the rear a little better.

Not sure if that answers any of your questions?

[churchill]

I assume you have a solid front axle?

If so you need an FJ60 front rotor, drill new mount holes so it can bolt to the IFS hub and either:
-bolt it directly to the hub, machine ~2mm of the back of the caliper mount points, drill to thread out of the hub and bolt the caliper (you'll need the IFS calipers) to the to the hub.
-bolt the caliper to the hub the normal way and get a spacer for the rotor.

[bigstu]

Brake pad wise ive seen people grind sum of the pad material back so pad surface is making full contact with disc lol mine has same issue but only a matter of 3-4mm not contacting so creates a step as pads wear.
Thanks stu

[Petemcc]

There are two ways to do this. I have done both and there are a few photos here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24958 (I did copy de-ranged's thread). However it sounds that the issues you have are that your rotors aren't matched to your calipers so you will need to work out what one you have. The earlier solid axles had non vented rotors (possibly smaller diameter) and smaller calipers. ln106 or fj60 rotors are the ones to go for and ln106 or any ifs surf caliper (the ones I chose had the biggest pistons as they all have different size ones). Perhaps at some stage someone put the smaller hilux rotors back on? the whole widening thing would either work or not work at all as the rotor would not be centered in the caliper.

Got any photos?

Are you sure that it is the front brakes that are the issue? There are a couple of options for rear disk conversions that have less pad contact on the rotor than others.

[driftinglobo]

Hi,

Thanks for all replays.
Here it is :
Checkerhead: yes you have answered most of my quaries.Thanks

bigstu: on my pad was about 5-6 mm not touching the rotor. And yes pad was chamfer ed to delay uneven wear

Petemcc: I ll read your post in full as time allows it looks interesting.
For your question:
"Are you sure that it is the front brakes that are the issue?"

One of the failed item on the WoF was not enough of pad contack on rotor. The rotor I had on is a IFS one. Measured the current gap between edge of rotor to inside of caliper and a FJ 60 rotor (302mm dia) will fill it out, and ensure all pad vs rotor contackt.
So "all" I need is to buy a adaptor like the "SNR IFS Hub Spacer Kit" and it be ok.

My calipers have ~39mm pistons an the following markings:
Stamped in:
3 (unreadable mark) T
S12W
Casted in:
4D

What are these mean or are these IFS calipers, if there is a difference between solid axle and IFS.

Thanks
Lobo

[Petemcc]

See if you can upload a photo of what you have with the wheel off.

The ln106 is the 98-96 hilux and has the same rotors as the 60 series. I believe these to be a larger diameter to the earlier solid axle hilux/surf (ln65/ln60 etc) ones but could be wrong. I know the earlier ones weren't vented like the ln106 ones (there is a photo in my thread that has the new rotor with the gold looking spacer on and IFS hub and an old solid rotor on a solid axle hub. The solid rotor is off a ln60 rather than my ln106) .

I suspect you have a wide axle conversion with the wrong rotors. You probably don't need the spacers but need to buy ln106/fj60 rotors drill new holes as per the first conversion I did on my truck and then put them on your current setup. However without seeing it this could be wrong.... Take some photos.

Cheers,
Pete

[driftinglobo]

Hi

I have made some photoes and trying to post them.
[img]20160106_181355.jpg[/img]
[img]20160106_181531.jpg[img]
[/img]20160106_181556.jpg[/img]

[img]20160106_181625.jpg[/img]

Lets see if this works.

[mudsurfv6]

Lets see if this works.

I can't see photos.

[driftinglobo]

Yes I am still working on it.

[driftinglobo]

this time?

[driftinglobo]

I assume you have a solid front axle?

If so you need an FJ60 front rotor, drill new mount holes so it can bolt to the IFS hub and either:
-bolt it directly to the hub, machine ~2mm of the back of the caliper mount points, drill to thread out of the hub and bolt the caliper (you'll need the IFS calipers) to the to the hub.
-bolt the caliper to the hub the normal way and get a spacer for the rotor.

Is there a specific year of FJ 60 rotor? or they are all the same? Thanks

[Petemcc]

Ok I'm almost out of my depth now. You have what looks like IFS calipers which should be right but im not sure on your rotor and spacer combo. The back space on the rotor looks much larger than mine (and spacer smaller) so im not sure which rotor they have used. New spacers and rotors might be the go? Anyone else ID the setup?

[Petemcc]

Below is copied from Deranged's thread. So it appears your's has used the IFS rotor and IFS caliper with a smaller spacer. To get it right you need the larger spacer like mine and FJ60 or LN106 (they are the same) rotors and the calipers you have now should work.

The reason it's out with the IFS rotor is that the caliper mounts to the swivel hub which is not related to the IFS hub/rotor in the same way it was on the IFS truck. Hopefully they will let you away with it without a re-cert.


Here is a pic of a spacer made to move the standard IFS rotor out, please note this is not certifiable in NZ see the large gap between the outside of the disk and the inside of the caliper
Image
becouse the solid axle caliper mounts are further out not all of the pad contacts the disk and is why you can't certify

To do it to a certifiable level you need to make the spacer alot thicker and run a cruiser vented rotor and the IFS calipers or the original solid axle disks and caliper
The downside of this method is it leaves the disk flush with the inside of the wheel and the caliper sticking further out but it allows you to retain the original brake sheild

[bigstu]

I think you just need ln106 rotors as looks like complete ifs brake setup as bolts directly to hub no redrilling like ln106 etc.
Ifs discs are slightly smaller diameter as oposed to ln106.
When bolted to the solid axle swivel housing they bolt further out from hub than when on ifs suspension, thats why you need the bigger disc to fill the gap.
Hope that makes sense.
Thanks stu