TD27 Nissan Van overheating on hills, otherwise fine - HELP!

[gregp]

Hi there guys this is my first post after the introductory one and although I didn't want it to be a "Help me!" post it surely will be one. Bought this car a month ago kitted it out and wanted to take it on its first bigger spin up Arthur's Pass today. It has been working nicely with the temp gauge never going over 1/2, blowing a bit of black and a bit of blue smoke when cool but I definitely had issues today.

Driving the car west into the wind I noticed it losing power after sitting on 3200rpm for about 30 minutes. As soon as I encountered the first bigger hill I had to consistently shift down while vibrations in the car were getting more while the temp gauge rose above 2/3 at which point I stopped and let it cool down. Also was blowing black smoke like...

Going downhill and into the other direction, over 3200rpm for more than an hour I never scratched the 1/2 mark. Looking inside there are no air bubbles in the radiator nor "cappucino" in the oil. I blew through the overfill hose from the radiator to the coolant overflow which I guess was blocked. Also sucked on it a couple of times and a lot of gunk came out. So today the coolant colour is brown/green instead of pure green as it was yesterday before I cleaned the hose.
After I bought it I flushed the radiator for several hours with water and proper flush, cleaned the overfill and the heater system. Changed oil, fuel and air filters. I also poured some injector cleaner in the tank as it all looked pretty sooty in there.

I wonder what it could be? Thermostat? Waterpump? Injectors? Going crazy right now as it'll mean I'll have to sit on my arse for a couple of days more before I can take the baby out.

Thanks for the help!

[Crash bandicoot]

Bit of info about Nissan temp guages.....

Anything below half is cold.
Half is normal operating temp under most conditions.
Anything over half is basically a warning device to say its about to overheat any second now..

Any discolouration will be what ever was dislodged from inside the water jacket when it got hot.

Heat saturation = loss of power.
Black smoke is unburnt fuel
Blue smoke is generally burnt oil or water in fuel
White smoke is engine oil.

Don't be to alarmed about heating up a td27. They are pretty hard to kill even deliberately.

[Crash bandicoot]

Start with the basics.

Check the flow of the water pump at idle and at 2800 rpm.

Check flow through radiator a garden hose down its throat and the fins should be able to cope with the flow( so no squirting back at you.

Too much fuel will create excessive combustion temps.

[ChurchurDan]

My old D21 used to get well over half on the gauge when pointed up a long steep hill on a hot day and when the viscous hub locked up it nearly died, 2nd and 3rd where the norm for hill work.

[gregp]

Start with the basics.

Check the flow of the water pump at idle and at 2800 rpm.

Check flow through radiator a garden hose down its throat and the fins should be able to cope with the flow( so no squirting back at you.

Too much fuel will create excessive combustion temps.

Will do this today. when I got the rig I flushed the radiator with a garden hose approx 25 times plus an additional 10 times with the heater on full blow and the engine at operation temps. Still there was some brown rusty muck left in the lower "tanks" and in the hose to the overflow. Btw. the stuff in the overflow was all hard an sticky, almost formed rocks made out of corroded radiator stuff. Probably needs another flush and a whole lot of new coolant. Radiator and hoses seem "ok" though as it's not overheating in normal traffic or on the highway. Just completely failing when even looking at a hill.

More stuff i noticed in the past days. When in cold idle it's just at about 700 rpm with occassional arhythmic rattles which feel like someone pushed the chassis - once it's warm (as operation temp stated above). Occasionally blue smoke at startup as well. Probably seals are worn. The old owner never serviced it and the belts I changed all looked like pretty much the original ones.

How to check the water pump flow?

[gregp]

My old D21 used to get well over half on the gauge when pointed up a long steep hill on a hot day and when the viscous hub locked up it nearly died, 2nd and 3rd where the norm for hill work.

Sounds pretty much like what happened to me, Dan. What did you end up doing (other than not going up hills anymore)?
2nd and 3rd gear produce higher revs so the fan will run faster pulling more air through, right?

[zukmeista]

If it was that dirty sounds like rad needs to be serviced or replaced even some of the ones I've done that don't look that dirty are just about completely blocked once top tank is taken off.

[ChurchurDan]

My old D21 used to get well over half on the gauge when pointed up a long steep hill on a hot day and when the viscous hub locked up it nearly died, 2nd and 3rd where the norm for hill work.

Sounds pretty much like what happened to me, Dan. What did you end up doing (other than not going up hills anymore)?
2nd and 3rd gear produce higher revs so the fan will run faster pulling more air through, right?

I have owned it for 11 years and it has always done it and never caused any harm. They are no power house even with a turbo so don't expect too much from it when climbing a hill, slow and steady wins the race.
Lower gears are used because they lack the power to use higher gears.

[gregp]

So I got the water pump, radiator and thermostat out yesterday night.
The pump had a wee bit of play - got someone around who said it might be the bearings. So I went and got a quote today. Around 200 for a new GMB pump, radiator flush for 130-200, new thermostat 20, 50 for the coolant. Plus approx 400 in labour and sundries.
Told me the viscous fan hasn't got enough friction anymore and I need to get all leftover stuff out of the radiator and fill it up with 70% coolant so it'll manage the altitudes better.
So about 900 for the job altogether. Never had a car serviced at a garage in NZ - does this sound about right or ripoff?
Cheers guys, all help much appreciated.

[Crash bandicoot]

If you can get the water pump off you can put anew one back on. Only pay for the parts and to have the radiator roded.

You can refill the viscous fan. Google it.

Pump 200
Radiator rodded 120 max
New coolant 40
Thermostat 20

You do the math.

[gregp]

You do the math.

Cheers mate, I'll get onto it then.

[gregp]

Radiator shop just came back to me. Looks worse than I thought. The core is just solidified rust and rubbish. They'd need to make a new a new core and all...500 bucks later. So that might have actually been the problem...not the pump at all nor the thermostat.

[Crash bandicoot]

Radiator shop just came back to me. Looks worse than I thought. The core is just solidified rust and rubbish. They'd need to make a new a new core and all...500 bucks later. So that might have actually been the problem...not the pump at all nor the thermostat.

500...who are these people and how are they still in business. if that's the case buy a 4 core race radiator.

new radiator for the missus VY commodore was only 220 . sheesh

user name on trade me is "cooling guys"

or just type in nissan radiator and he has like the first 50 listings.

[BlakeNZ]

buy a new radiator ,mate. Your cooling issues will be gone.

[zukmeista]

Thought that might be the case... Should be able to get a new one for $400 or less where in NZ are you?

[catalystracing]

Paid $220 for new one for Hilux, definitely shop around.

[gregp]

I'm in Christchurch. The shop that gave the quote was A1 Automotive Cooling in the city. Weird thing is that there are three types of radiators used in the E24s. Two of them have the tanks on the side and these are readily available pretty much everywhere. I on the other side was so lucky to have one with top and bottom tanks - not sold on Trademe as far as I was able to search for the right thing nor anywhere close in Canterbury.
I had to get the reconditioning done as I need the car pretty much daily so I ended up giving them the go ahead. 500 bucks later it's all shiny and new and runs beautiful. Still a bit gutless going up steep hills (went up Dyers Pass the other day and couldn't get past 30/40 kph) and blowing black smoke in small quantities continually doing this. Guess this could be Diesel pump related but it's a bugger to get to and I seriously have no idea how to fiddle around on them.

Good news is that the Homy at least stayed cool (under 50%) going up Dyers Pass with 29 degrees outside and being pushed up there on 2500-3000 rpm continually. So guess that solved it.

Weird enough the mechanic who did most of the work (worked from home) wanted to pour undiluted coolant in there...he was totally committed to this but I luckily got him to put some water in there as well. Next time I'll do this myself. Just dealing with this guy sent my blood boiling.
Cheers guys.

[MihiT]

WRT to the black smoke, it may be time to look at the injectors...

[gregp]

WRT to the black smoke, it may be time to look at the injectors...

I can see a stack of money burning...any cheap way to fix this?
Was thinking valve seals/rings, pump timing...