Rubicon vs Sport vs Overland

[frederic26]

Hi (TJ ),

Got my test drive yesterday with a V6 Unlimited Sport and I am now checking which version I will go for as I don't believe I will wait 2017-2018 for a new one showing up.

My first idea was the Rubicon because I have always heard that it was the "more" (commercially speaking) prepared but when I look at it, I can list the following:

* Front Axle Dana 44 heavy duty solid (vs. the Dana 30 solid for the other versions)
* Axle Ratio 4.10.1 (vs. 3.73:1)
* Differentials Tru-Lok front and rear, electronic remote locking
* Rock Trac MP241 OR, manuel, part-time, shift on the fly transfer case 4-1 low gear (vs. command trac MP24)
* Rock Rails
* Sway Bar Disconnect
* Tyres 245/75R17 (vs 255/70R18)

The soft top and GPS could have been good but I hope I can have it installed/configured afterwards.

As I am planning to have some upgrades (bumpers front & rear with winch, body protection, suspension if needed and a set of wheels/tyres), I am now thinking if the Rubicon is the right one to start (against the Sport/Overland).

Usage will be multi: off-road, long trips combining road(comfort) and off-road)

Thanks for your remarks

[silveradoman]

hi how do you tell the models apart from a glance?
i see a ten grand price difference between colour matched and black plastic gaurds/roof.

[frederic26]

hi how do you tell the models apart from a glance?

The model/version is usually displayed on the side.

See picture attached as illustration

[TJ]

Rubicon has different Rubicon only rims and a hood sticker to easily identify from the outside from a distance.

It's a bit of a personal preference between them visually, Rubicons don't have body match painted fenders and hardtop. I prefer that. To me painted fender and top looks unnatural.

As for mechanicals, diff ratio of 4.10 come very useful when bigger tyres are put on. Numerically lower ratios will be better for fuel economy, but at the cost of 4wd performance.

If you go Sport, lockers and deeper diff gears can be added but at a cost (of around $5-$6k installed). Rubicon comes with factory bash plates as well for everything other than engine.

Deeper diff gear and deeper transfer case ratio on Rubicon gives you the best crawl ratio. You can drive with better control than having to mash the gas pedal on everything.

Here is a good article comparing Sport and Rubicon. http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/wrangler/20 ... sport.html

Personally, I went with Rubicon as the price difference was more economical to pay than doing all the upgrades myself. Have you looked at price of transfer case? Or bash plates? And it would still be a Sport.

Also remember, Rubicon has a better spring and shock combo from the factory. But everybody lifts them anyway, so not important.

If you can, try driving a Rubicon and see which one you like more.

[TJ]

Rubicon should be dual top, mine has both soft and hard top.

As for GPS, I prefer not to have it as part of the head unit. Maps are easier to upgrade this way. As long as it has UConnect Bluetooth, GPS is not a problem (Google Maps on a phone works best, in my opinion). Factory GPS on my Cherokee is a bit annoying compared to my phone.

[frederic26]

Thanks TJ, I knew I could count on you to get such valuable feedback.

We will stay on the Rubicon and start to list the upgrades I want to do, so I might raise other queries soon.

[Jeeper]

I went through the same thought process before upgrading from my TJ (had kids = need more doors) - I knew I couldnt afford to get into a 3.6 so was looking at the versions in the 3.8 I could afford. I guess the pro's and cons list looks similar. I ended up holding out for a Rubicon as I always had concerns or wants to build up the HPD30 D44 combo I had on the TJ. Getting the 44 up front was a big selling point for me. 4.10's are nice but still way under geared in either the JK or JKU. Ill be heading up to 5.13's with a Superchips Flashpaq which I think (running 285/70/17's) will be the best combo for here in NZ where we have so many hills and the overdrive button gets a thrashing. My 2c anyway.

[frederic26]

Thanks Jeeper.

[frederic26]

I went through the same thought process before upgrading from my TJ (had kids = need more doors) - I knew I couldnt afford to get into a 3.6 so was looking at the versions in the 3.8 I could afford. I guess the pro's and cons list looks similar. I ended up holding out for a Rubicon as I always had concerns or wants to build up the HPD30 D44 combo I had on the TJ. Getting the 44 up front was a big selling point for me. 4.10's are nice but still way under geared in either the JK or JKU. Ill be heading up to 5.13's with a Superchips Flashpaq which I think (running 285/70/17's) will be the best combo for here in NZ where we have so many hills and the overdrive button gets a thrashing. My 2c anyway.

Hi Jeeper,

Do I understand that u have a 4.10 standard with ur Rubicon and u are targeting to reach 5.13? Any idea of the budget for it?
Still struggling to get a rubicon year 2016 so I check how to put a sport year 2016 in a rubicon or better configuration.

[frederic26]

Hi (TJ ),
* Front Axle Dana 44 heavy duty solid (vs. the Dana 30 solid for the other versions)
* Axle Ratio 4.10.1 (vs. 3.73:1)
* Differentials Tru-Lok front and rear, electronic remote locking
* Rock Trac MP241 OR, manuel, part-time, shift on the fly transfer case 4-1 low gear (vs. command trac MP24)
* Sway Bar Disconnect

Made some investigations about pricing these elements:

1. Axle 44 Heavy Duty:
Teraflex is selling the JK Tera44 Heavy Duty Front Replacement Axle for $2900 (Video=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8MGiMD ... zz9s17XlT2)
But I suspect there are cheapers, nice summary here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/trans ... ers-guide/

2. Differentials Tru-Lok front and rear,
I only found the rear one from Mopar (http://www.quadratec.com/products/52426_1005_07.htm) and we are already at $ 2400

3. Rock Track NP241 Transfer Case
Video to explain the feature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHRh_BrLTKk
Must be around $1500 (if it is similar)

4. Sway Bar Disconnect
How to use it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI0vkzauysk (not funny)
Funny one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqzrOqF3dI

I only find the one that you disconnect manually, seems not be pricey.

So it sounds that it knocks the 10k (with the installation at the condition you have the right people to do it + skid plates). xxxxx

[TJ]

Tell FCA about the dealer selling a new Jeep as Rubicon that is not a factory Rubicon and see how quickly the dealership is revoked. Otherwise report that dealer to Commerce Commission for false advertising with proof. If you can't do either, then stop repeating hearsay.

Do you have a vehicle window card and registration form saying it's a Rubicon, when the VIN says otherwise?

[TJ]

Your pricing does not include GST, freight and labour charges for fitment. I seriously doubt you could get all the items delivered and installed within 10k.

[frederic26]

If you can't do either, then stop repeating hearsay.

I will close that topic as I believe it is more my problem to read some advertises than something else. I am very happy with my dealership and have an excellent contact in Auckland as well.

Cheers.

[frederic26]

Your pricing does not include GST, freight and labour charges for fitment. I seriously doubt you could get all the items delivered and installed within 10k.

That'a fair statement so it makes the 5k extra at Jeep even more relevant.

[bagal]

Hi all

Going through a similar question myself Rubicon or Sport? Two door not unlimited.Most of my driving will be Central Otago rock or coastal Otago mud and clay. Nothing too extreme, but then still want a capable vehicle. I can probably live without the diff locks and not sure if the 44 front is needed. However the transfer gears is an interesting question. The Edmunds article compares the overall reductions as 38:1 in the Sport and 73:1 in the Rubicon. In practical terms is the stock Sport reduction sufficient? My only practical comparison would be a FJ40 which I think had about 28:1 and I never found that wanting. Perhaps Rubicon gears only necessary for the Rubicon Trail?

The other question I have is regarding the ex Singapore Wranglers that are offered from time to time. Any downsides with these?

bagal

[lax2wlg]

Hi all

Going through a similar question myself Rubicon or Sport? Two door not unlimited.Most of my driving will be Central Otago rock or coastal Otago mud and clay. Nothing too extreme, but then still want a capable vehicle. I can probably live without the diff locks and not sure if the 44 front is needed. However the transfer gears is an interesting question. The Edmunds article compares the overall reductions as 38:1 in the Sport and 73:1 in the Rubicon. In practical terms is the stock Sport reduction sufficient? My only practical comparison would be a FJ40 which I think had about 28:1 and I never found that wanting. Perhaps Rubicon gears only necessary for the Rubicon Trail?

The other question I have is regarding the ex Singapore Wranglers that are offered from time to time. Any downsides with these?

bagal

Lower transfer gears will always make any vehicle infinitely more capable and more controllable, but for what you are planning on doing, I'd imagine the standard 38:1 crawl will be absolutely fine. Especially with the automatic transmission, you can sort of bullshit and slip your way through low speed obstacles (manual vs auto different debate - don't even ask!) Even the standard transfers bout 2.7:1 so deeper than anything else around bar Land Rover.

Lockers will transform the vehicle beyond description, but its a Wrangler after all...rainy day incline, and one wrong move with a locked front and the Jeep Wrangler will do what it does best - roll over. Since you dont want the 4 door (which is more stable, much more capable due to the mid-wheelbase, hence why they did it)

All of that 'Trail Rated' nonsense is just marketing gimmicks - Chrysler inventing an award and then giving it to itself. Better built though, but a big price differential. In terms of raw off-road capability though, no other new 4x4 can come near its factory combination of traction/gearing/suspension design.

I say just get an old TJ, Chuck some 31s on it, beef up transmission cooler, rear locker... Go go go. Opinions may vary.

[TJ]

Final ratio would depend on transmission (auto and manual have different ratios), diffs (some non Aus/NZ designated Rubicons come with 3.73 ratios not 4.10), and transfer case (2.72 for sport and 4.10 for Rubicon).

Test drive both variations and see what talks to you. As for Singapore new imports, I'm not a huge fan unless the dealer offer a big discount. If paying full price, I would prefer a NZ spec from the factory, there are a few configurational differences and it's newer stock.

[lax2wlg]

Pretty sure theres no such thing as 'NZ spec,' its just rest-of-world spec, NZ market is far too small for them to have dedicated NZ spec.
I don't see whats wrong with a used Singapore vehicle. I don't see how its any different to a used vehicle originating in Japan, other than the fact that the climate is better/less damaging to cars in Singapore.

There are dodgy turban wearing crooks winding back speedos etc everywhere, it doesn't matter so much where it came from, but who it came from.

[TJ]

You would be wrong to assume that. There are model accessory and gearing options packages that are agreed by FCA for Australia and NZ markets. Build sheet states which market it was designed for from the factory.

[lax2wlg]

Pretty sure theres no such thing as 'NZ spec,' its just rest-of-world spec, NZ market is far too small for them to have dedicated NZ spec.

You would be wrong to assume that. There are model accessory and gearing options packages that are agreed by FCA for Australia and NZ markets. Build sheet states which market it was designed for from the factory.

So what you are saying is that there is in fact no dedicated 'NZ Spec,' but there is one for Australia, into which vehicles destined for NZ also fall (by default)

'Oh yeah, I'll take a NZ-spec Rubicon Unlimited, with all the factory modifications unique to NZ-only Jeeps, where they sell half a dozen units a year'

Hyperbole, yes, but surely you can see what I'm on about there fella

[TJ]

Bagal, have you test driven either?

[bagal]

Only driven a Sport. Road drive around town only so not really much of a drive. Have also driven a Sport Unlimited for a longer test drive. Would a road drive of a Rubicon show much difference from a Sport? Could drive a Rubicon 4 Unlimited. Would that be a fair comparison?

Re a (presumably) Singapore vehicle, I did a VIN check on one listed on TM as new. Built to Indonesia spec MY 2014. This would make it 2-3 old?

bagal

[TJ]

Only driven a Sport. Road drive around town only so not really much of a drive. Have also driven a Sport Unlimited for a longer test drive. Would a road drive of a Rubicon show much difference from a Sport? Could drive a Rubicon 4 Unlimited. Would that be a fair comparison?

Re a (presumably) Singapore vehicle, I did a VIN check on one listed on TM as new. Built to Indonesia spec MY 2014. This would make it 2-3 old?

bagal

If you drive a Sport Unlimited and then Rubicon Unlimited (with 4.10 diff ratios), you can then judge what difference it makes with the same engine and transmission in terms of drive and feel.

And you have found my reason for avoiding a Singapore new ones. These are being registered as 2016, but the factory MY is 2014 or so. In reality these were unable to be sold in Singapore/Indonesia and are now being brought here. Theoretically they will still have new car warranty if you make sure its in writing from the Jeep dealer. But they are 2+ year old Model Year vehicles. I personally would not be happy with that if buying new.

You can check factory build sheets here: https://jeep.custhelp.com/app/jeep/eqlisting_detail

I went with 2-door because I liked the look and feel of shorter wheelbase (drove a TJ for 12+ years before the JK, so I was comfortable with it).

[bagal]

The Singapore Rubicon has 3.73 axles. Drove a 05 TJ manual yesterday. Bit agricultural compared to the JK but might be better off with that. Low range seemed plenty low enough as best I can tell on short distance on sealed road.

[TJ]

If you get a nice clean TJ that's not been molested, you'll have a fair chunk of money leftover for mods you want to do. TJs are great with great aftermarket support.

[bagal]

This one on TM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 900112.htm

[TJ]

This one on TM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 900112.htm

Off topic. Start a separate thread

[lax2wlg]

05 TJ manual

This one on TM http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 900112.htm

Looks like a go-er to me, esp. with the manual trans. Plus it already has tyres and winch, she's pretty much ready to go out the box.
Seems like quite a lot for a 10 year old vehicle though, maybe thats just the current market price, considering it has low km's etc.