(Slow) '87 SJ413 Build

[Tumor]

G'day all.
At about the end of August last year I got a 1987 model SJ413 Samurai.
What its got :-
Standard 1.3 N/A engine
30in Dunlops
16 inch steel rims

As I have only just turned 16 I haven't been able to drive it on the road yet (legally LOL).

Its not really mine but I call it that
So far I have : -
Changed oil & oil filter
Reset leafs
New water pump
Reconditioned the radiator

(I know that some of these things are maintanence but all the same )


So after getting more and more depressed with its condition sitting in the drive after a few outings I drove it into the garage and got to with a bit of work on it.
We got it off a guy at work that had gotten it for free but it just ended up sitting on his land doing nothing. A tree fell on it so there are a few dents and for some unbeknown reason the rust on the right side is worse than the left, but anyway.

Most of the rust is along the roof line and in the right wheel arch.

So here are a few pics of the rust before and after.

As you can only attach 5 pics at a time Ill put some more up in another post.
And a bit more reading for you all.

[Tumor]

So this is a list of the near future plans (cash allowing)
- New master brake cylinder
- New exhaust (cut the old one in two coz it needed replacing and for the fun of it LOL )
- 2 inch Sus. lift
- 1 inch body (because the body is flopping to the right even after the reset leafs. Anyone know why? Just a guess at the body blocks on my behalf.)
- W.O.F
- Reg (Get dad to pay for both of those coz it really is his, but I have driven it the most and he doesn't know much about 4wds)

Now for some of the actual mods
- 33inch Silverstone MT1117 Extremes (Getting them 2nd hand off my cousin cheap. Will keep them just for off-roading.)
- 15x8 inch steel beadlocks (Can get them through a mate of a mate )
- Front and rear bar work. (Probably try and make something like the attached photo for the rear bar. I do have my own arc welder and grinder and can get steel cheap through dad's work)
- Runva 8.0xs 8,000lb winch - http://www.winch.co.nz/winches/80xs-12v ... ch-dyneema
- Then because of the winch:
- Deep cycle 2nd battery
- Bigger alternator
- Bad-ass wiring
- Dual battery set up (obviously)
- Extended flares (also getting them through my cousin)
- Rockslider
- 410 Transfercase (getting it cheap off a mate)
- Custom Snorkel
- think thats all let you guys know if there is anything else i think of.

[Tumor]

Rust in the wheel arch and a bit of fixing
And some others

[Tumor]

I also spent last weekend in Ashburton (more on that soon) and my cousin has an Sj that he's turning into comp spec (also more on that soon) so he has a lot of standard Sj bits. I was looking through some of it with him and he found some Superwinch hubs. He was like "Shit i didn't know I had these, these are bloody strong. You can have them for 70 bucks if you want, or you can just have them. Yeah, just have them" I was stoked. So I was the proud new owner of a pair of Superwinch hubs .

A few weeks back I also brought a couple of recovery hooks off 4wdbits. Yet to install.

Next post to come with pics of last weekend and a bit of an explanation.

[Swamped]

Those hubs seem to last. Just removing them can be a pain in the ass if they have those weird long tapered head screws. Unsure if theres a way to prevent them seizing but have had a couple hubs real hard to remove.

[Tumor]

-----------------------------------------------------------15/10/16 (Weekend spent in Ashburton)------------------------------------------------------------------

Over Friday night we (me and cousin) fix a few problems with his crazy-ass vitara.
Then Saturday we went 4wding (Attached pics)
I was fortunate enough to be allowed to drive it as well

A few specs:-
Brought stock off Trade Me about 8 months ago.
Now on its 4th set of tyres
Had three different suspension setups
And is now solid axle swapped (SAS)

80 Series front axle with ARB air locker
Prado rear axle with 2 inch wheel spacers to match front width also has welded diff.
Custom suspension set-up. 10 inch shocks on the rear. 12 inch shocks in the front.
2inch Bodylift
36 inch Simex extreme tyres
Stock 2.0L V6 with half stock exhuast, other half 2inch with highflow muffler.
Custom front bar with 11,000lb Runva winch
Custom rocksliders
Custom rear bar
Custom snorkel
10in LED light bar above winch fairlead
Stock auto box
Not sure on what the diff gears are, but are aftermarket. Might be 5.29s or something he said they were the second lowest available.
Maybe Supercharge and most likely swap out the sus. for 16 inch coilovers
Think that is all.



The comp-spec to be Sj is currently in bits but this is what he wants:-
Ute-chop
Coilovers
Already has CA18 1.8L Nissan engine
35s
80 series axles
Twin locked
Exo cage
Lots of custom stuff
Winch
More custom stuff


I don't think he's 100% sure of somethings he is going to do to it at the moment. He isnt going to start on this until the Vitara is Finished.

[Tumor]

Few pics of mine now
Does have doors and bonnet. Just off for something to do and to get at the rust

[BlakeNZ]

some comments.
It will take a bit of work putting 33 inch tyres on a SJ ( but hey your crazy cousin runs 35s on a Vitara!)
Have you thought about putting a cutting disc in your grinder- would save all that drilling you do, and is fast as!
Is your Registration on hold? (don't let it lapse!!! otherwise your truck may never see the road again...)
From my (limited) experience , Arc welder fine for your bar work, but far from ideal for putting in all that replacement body panel patches where the rust is being removed.
thanks for the photos. Don't ever lose that enthusiasm ....

[Tumor]

some comments.
It will take a bit of work putting 33 inch tyres on a SJ ( but hey your crazy cousin runs 35s on a Vitara!)
Have you thought about putting a cutting disc in your grinder- would save all that drilling you do, and is fast as!
Is your Registration on hold? (don't let it lapse!!! otherwise your truck may never see the road again...)
From my (limited) experience , Arc welder fine for your bar work, but far from ideal for putting in all that replacement body panel patches where the rust is being removed.
thanks for the photos. Don't ever lose that enthusiasm ....

Yeah I know it will take a bit to fit the 33s, but it has been done, and never say never
I do have a cutting disc. I just wasn't sure what was behind the panels on the roof. Otherwise I would've. As you can see I did use it on the wheel arch bit.
Not sure, but I will find out. Although I doubt it.
I wasnt going to use the Arc for the body panels. Dad has a few Migs at work so I will be using them. But I might try and use my Arc for the bar work.


Cheers.

[Tumor]

A little update:

Have been looking through some old Suzuki archives and have seen that someone recommended Pitstop for someone for their exhaust.
Will be calling in there some day to talk to them about one for mine.


And does anyone know why the body is lower on one side than the other? Im guessing its the body blocks because it was still like this after the leafs were reset.

[derk]

good first project mate, you'll learn there is a whole pile of problems with trying to bolt 33" tyres onto one of those things, fowling on the body, fowling on the chassis losing steering lock, high gearing, hard work on the clutch and stress on the cv's will be the main problems to deal with, its all a good learning curve

[Tumor]

good first project mate, you'll learn there is a whole pile of problems with trying to bolt 33" tyres onto one of those things, fowling on the body, fowling on the chassis losing steering lock, high gearing, hard work on the clutch and stress on the cv's will be the main problems to deal with, its all a good learning curve

I'll be getting at least -29mm offset rims and I have been looking at transfer case gears/whole new transfer cases.
I was thinking with the CVs, if I had low enough gearing would it help? Just an idea I came up with, like to know your thoughts.
If not what would other than HiLux axles, chromoly CVs. Both I'm hoping someone has another option to (because of the price)

[Swamped]

Before doing any of your planned mods read as much as you can. auszookers, zuwharrie, pirate forums have days of cool builds to cruise through.

Your list of mods has a lot of gaps esp when looking to 33's, you have started to piece it together but you will find the answers in those threads or else quickly realise once you get out driving.

Your first mod list would suit 30/31's and probably drive quite well
Likely also be able to avoid having to get a cert so long as you don't body lift it too.

To start with I'd say get it legal (if that's the plan) and get some seat time. Those trucks are a laugh even oem and still quite capable when you can keep em on their wheels. The mods you plan can likely result in the truck being off the road more than on it which might not be what you want early on especially if money for necessary parts keeps it in bits. I know how easy this can happen.

[Tumor]

Before doing any of your planned mods read as much as you can. auszookers, zuwharrie, pirate forums have days of cool builds to cruise through.

Your list of mods has a lot of gaps esp when looking to 33's, you have started to piece it together but you will find the answers in those threads or else quickly realise once you get out driving.

Your first mod list would suit 30/31's and probably drive quite well
Likely also be able to avoid having to get a cert so long as you don't body lift it too.

To start with I'd say get it legal (if that's the plan) and get some seat time. Those trucks are a laugh even oem and still quite capable when you can keep em on their wheels. The mods you plan can likely result in the truck being off the road more than on it which might not be what you want early on especially if money for necessary parts keeps it in bits. I know how easy this can happen.

Thanks heaps for that.
It was suggested by my cousin to keep the tyres on there at the moment for on road use and then the other tyres that I was gonna get off him for off road use.
Why I wanted to put the 33s on was because I could get them cheaper off him than four 31s. I was originally going to put 31s on it, but then he said he was selling his. But now after what you have said, I might go back to the 31s. Because the tyres on it at the moment aren't all that good and they appear to be quite old.

And I will have another look on those forums for info.

So with all this in mind, the outcome will have something like this:
- 31 inch Silverstones
- 8000lb Runva winch
- Simple barwork

LMK what you think.
I can also get a 410 transfer case cheap off a friend of a friend. Will this be enough for the 31s?

And will I be able to get the 31s road legal without a cert? Because of how much bigger it is over standard.

[derk]

don't forget you're only young so you're allowed to make lots of mistakes that's how we all learn

[Tumor]

UPDATE
After reading through some different threads and what people have said on this thread; I have come to a slightly different build outcome. It's more of a "Keep It Simple Stupid" attitude. Let me know what you think of it.

Rims & Tyres:-
- 31" Silverstone MT-117s
- 15x8" Steel rims; either -29mm/-44mm offset. Possibly beadlocks. I'm thinking -44m offset, but I'm not sure.

Barwork:-
-Simple yet strong and effective.
-Not 100% sure on the overall design yet. Still dreaming:mrgreen:
-Incorporates a winch.

Suspension:-
-Have been reading and like the idea of no lift yet 31s. Just a bit of guard chopping.
-Hopefully upgrade to aftermarket leafs and shocks but obviously OME height.

Other:-
-Snorkel, not a huge priority because I don't drive through rivers at the moment
-410 Transfer Case: Will this be enough for the 31s?
-Dual batteries: Is this really needed for the winch if I have a big enough single battery? Thinking an Optima yellow top, because they can be used for starting and they are also a deep cycle.


Thats all that I can think of for now, please let me know what you think. The advice so far has been really helpful.

Cheers JT

[UBZ]

33s are a massive amount of work on a SJ, lift , guard chop , gears , headlight bucket chop , firewall mods etc etc etc
Gearing is extremely important , lets you crawl , Ideal over things in control and not have to hit everything at spped .and provides control down hill and ample power up hill .
Basically you want to avoid lifting it as much as possible .
And gear it to suit the tyre size you want .
Yours is a narrow track 413 so you can't get off the shelf Cromo CVs and axles for it.

You also want skinney profile tyres rather than fat to keep your steerigng lock .

iMHO the best size tyre for an SJ is a 32x9.5x15 or a 235/85/16

My list would be as follows
Recovery points
4.16 or 4.9 transfer gears .
Rear springs up front (RUF)
Virtual lift (guard chop)
Wide track Smurai duffs , with mounts moved to narrow track spacing
Cromo CVs and axles - LROR
235/85/16 -
Rear disc breaks - BenT
Vitara vented front rotors and calipers
Roll cage
Fuel tank bash plate
Bar work
Power steering - ex Vitara with a wedge - BenT
Then a Vitara 1.6ltr G16b engine down the track . Adaptor - BenT

This will give you a weapon that with easily keep up with 30k+ modified patrols and cruisers

Will defiantly need to be certed for any tyre increase past a 235/75/15 as stock size is 215/75/15 .

Have a good look on Auszookers heaps of info on all this .

But as others have said get out and wheel the tits off it in stock form , very capible little trucks in stock form and not as tippy as most would make out if driven correctly

[Tumor]

33s are a massive amount of work on a SJ, lift , guard chop , gears , headlight bucket chop , firewall mods etc etc etc
Gearing is extremely important , lets you crawl , Ideal over things in control and not have to hit everything at spped .and provides control down hill and ample power up hill .
Basically you want to avoid lifting it as much as possible .
And gear it to suit the tyre size you want .
Yours is a narrow track 413 so you can't get off the shelf Cromo CVs and axles for it.

You also want skinney profile tyres rather than fat to keep your steerigng lock .

iMHO the best size tyre for an SJ is a 32x9.5x15 or a 235/85/16

My list would be as follows
Recovery points
4.16 or 4.9 transfer gears .
Rear springs up front (RUF)
Virtual lift (guard chop)
Wide track Smurai duffs , with mounts moved to narrow track spacing
Cromo CVs and axles - LROR
235/85/16 -
Rear disc breaks - BenT
Vitara vented front rotors and calipers
Roll cage
Fuel tank bash plate
Bar work
Power steering - ex Vitara with a wedge - BenT
Then a Vitara 1.6ltr G16b engine down the track . Adaptor - BenT

This will give you a weapon that with easily keep up with 30k+ modified patrols and cruisers

Will defiantly need to be certed for any tyre increase past a 235/75/15 as stock size is 215/75/15 .

Have a good look on Auszookers heaps of info on all this .

But as others have said get out and wheel the tits off it in stock form , very capible little trucks in stock form and not as tippy as most would make out if driven correctly

After reading what other people have to say about 33s, I am now going to get 31s.



All those mods are very cool and tempting but, out of my cash reach. In the last post I said what I wanted to do.



As for the cert does anyone know what is involved in getting one? And the price.

[UBZ]

What I was getting at was with fat 31's on wide 15x8 rims and no gearing you will end up with a dog with no flex , no power and no lock .

A 410 transfer will lower low range gearing for a Max tyre size of 235/75/15 ish but do nothing for high range gearing on road . And you will need to make hybrid 410/413 driveshafts .

Yes mods are expensive and time consuming , but seeing as you have to recert for every aditional mod it's worth doing right the first time @$400-$500 each cert . You also need to speak to the certifier before you start modding as they will have restrictions on what mods you can do and how they are done .ie Max tyre size , rim size etc etc

[Tumor]

What I was getting at was with fat 31's on wide 15x8 rims and no gearing you will end up with a dog with no flex , no power and no lock .

A 410 transfer will lower low range gearing for a Max tyre size of 235/75/15 ish but do nothing for high range gearing on road . And you will need to make hybrid 410/413 driveshafts .

Yes mods are expensive and time consuming , but seeing as you have to recert for every additional mod it's worth doing right the first time @$400-$500 each cert . You also need to speak to the certifier before you start modding as they will have restrictions on what mods you can do and how they are done .ie Max tyre size , rim size etc etc

Do you have a build thread on your Sj in your display picture?

http://www.suzukiclubuk.co.uk/diy/16-tr ... ocklobster I have been reading through this and would be willing to take on the work, but I would rather have someone else there with a bit of experence. Or does anyone know of someone around Dunedin that can do this for me?

[Swamped]

This is a cool build thread of UBZ's. Hopefully all the images are still live.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=13078

Regarding the rock lobster mod, nowadays its likely a comparable build cost to buy an aftermarket gearset and fit vs hybridising the two zuk TC's. If you have the 410 TC with the shift light for nothing fair enough but to have to buy one and then find someone to fab/assemble it can still cost quite a bit.

Lowrange has gearsets on sale currently too

[mudsurfv6]

when I had a 413 years ago I was told that the 410 full body tc is same gearing as 413 but the 410 flat decks have a lower low range.
someone else will know for sure.

[Tumor]

Regarding the rock lobster mod, nowadays its likely a comparable build cost to buy an aftermarket gearset and fit vs hybridising the two zuk TC's. If you have the 410 TC with the shift light for nothing fair enough but to have to buy one and then find someone to fab/assemble it can still cost quite a bit.

Would the 80% reduction in low range from the Rocklobster be enough for the 31s? As opposed to the different ranges from Low Range Offroad
(Recommended tyres)
4.16:1:- 84% (29"-30")
4.9:1:- 115% (30"-31")
5.14:1:-127%(31"-32")
6.4:1:- 181%(32"+)
6.5:1:- 187%(32"+)

Thinking the 5.14:1. LMK what you think.

[Tumor]

Update time

- I have chopped the standard "bullbar" in half and planning on adding a couple of solid spacers type things in between to widen it to the width of the chassis. Ill modify the mounts so they are stronger. I'll probably take the centre bar out as well so I can add some big arse spotlights in there sometime. (few pics attached of the chopped bar.)
I am going to take it to the sandblasters to strip all of the paint off. Then get my uncle to machine up a couple of solid tube to slip in the hollow part of the bullbar tube with the same OD. Then weld them in; then take the whole thing to my other uncle to get it electro galvanised and powdercoated.

- I have another thread under winches about the Ruva I was looking at. One guy said that his dad just had a 2" receiver at the front and the back with the winch mounted on a compatible cradle. Quite seriously thinking of doing this now.

- Not thinking of doing it anytime in the close future, if not at all, but I have heard of a couple of people putting a 2.0L SR20DE/DET Nissan Silvia engine in a Samurai. Wondering what people think of this. I know that there would be a hell of a lot of work to do, but you would end up with a small 4wd with a lot of power. And I like the idea of that.

[redzuki]

All sounds like a good plan mate .

Little bit of advice to help steer you in the right direction.
I brought my SJ when i was 15 and modded it from there, i was at school so a big built was out of the question .
I wheeled it stock for a few trips which was good fun then modded it with what ever mod i felt it needed next .
I ended up with
30s
1" shackel lift
Recovery points
Bull bar, rear bar , sliders .
2"exaust
In this form i wheeled it for a few years , had an awesome time and learnt ALOT!

All these mods cost bugger all if you do them yourself , they're a good way to learn ,you can still keep it road legal and best of all you can do them on the weekends when your not out wheeling.

The more drive time you get the better, as you will learn whats causeing your vehicle to get stuck and how you can mod it so it doesnt happen next time .

The lower gearing to suit the tires is definitely a good move . For bang for buck a SJ410 case and 30s or 31s would be fine. I did wheel mine for a few years with stock gearing though and nobody died ( as some forums make you belive.)

For the winch id almost hang fire, by the time you buy and fit a winch properly (winch , battery, alternator, wiring and solid mouting point) it can be a very expensive excercise. In stock form most SJs only need a little push or pull to get them through so just makes sure you have a strop and another vehicle when you head out .

Hope this helps
Good luck with it

Cheers
Jamie

[Tumor]

All sounds like a good plan mate .

Little bit of advice to help steer you in the right direction.
I brought my SJ when i was 15 and modded it from there, i was at school so a big built was out of the question .
I wheeled it stock for a few trips which was good fun then modded it with what ever mod i felt it needed next .
I ended up with
30s
1" shackel lift
Recovery points
Bull bar, rear bar , sliders .
2"exaust
In this form i wheeled it for a few years , had an awesome time and learnt ALOT!

All these mods cost bugger all if you do them yourself , they're a good way to learn ,you can still keep it road legal and best of all you can do them on the weekends when your not out wheeling.

The more drive time you get the better, as you will learn whats causeing your vehicle to get stuck and how you can mod it so it doesnt happen next time .

The lower gearing to suit the tires is definitely a good move . For bang for buck a SJ410 case and 30s or 31s would be fine. I did wheel mine for a few years with stock gearing though and nobody died ( as some forums make you belive.)

For the winch id almost hang fire, by the time you buy and fit a winch properly (winch , battery, alternator, wiring and solid mouting point) it can be a very expensive excercise. In stock form most SJs only need a little push or pull to get them through so just makes sure you have a strop and another vehicle when you head out .

Hope this helps
Good luck with it

Cheers
Jamie

Thanks for that.
That seem to be what most people are saying.
Would you recommend changing the old 30s on it now for 31s? Because it has 16 inch rims on it at the moment, and the tyres are rubbing on the chassis at the front and the back.
With the transfer case, would it be worth rocklobstering or could I get away with just the 410 by itself (for 30s/31s).

I have been meaning to post this problem for a while but haven't gotten around to it: It has a very rough idle and when cold you can't just leave it, you have to have the choke out a bit. Does anyone know what this is? And would a carb rebuild fix this?

[Crawlerer79]

Would you recommend changing the old 30s on it now for 31s?

Just bear in mind that going to 31s will have you sitting on wider rubber as well as taller. With such a light vehicle you may find that in mud, rather than digging in to where there is grip, you will sit on top of the mud and just turn as the extra area will mean you won't have the pressure to dig down to where there is grip. Also if you do much gravel road driving you will find it horrible to drive as you will have to crawl along and be making non-stop corrections. My Escudo (which is heavier) is on 255 wide tyres and on a gravel road it is so loose (I had mum telling me I was going to crash as I drove down a re-gravelled road sideways at about 25km/hs )

Another thing to think about is the winch. With such a light vehicle you could easily get away with a 4500lb winch designed for a SxS as long as you weren't getting hideously stuck. Also if you did go ahead with a removable winch on a tray like you mentioned in your other thread you'll find that this should be even lighter again than a short drum winch, meaning better power to weight but more importantly, ease of moving it. Lifting a 25kg winch up a wet clay hill to mount to a stuck vehicle is a bit of a struggle.... Smurf will agree

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 884222.htm

[Tumor]

Would you recommend changing the old 30s on it now for 31s?

Just bear in mind that going to 31s will have you sitting on wider rubber as well as taller. With such a light vehicle you may find that in mud, rather than digging in to where there is grip, you will sit on top of the mud and just turn as the extra area will mean you won't have the pressure to dig down to where there is grip.

Even with an 10.5" wide tyre? What brand/size of tyre would you go for then?

As for the winch, after what redzuki said I might leave that for a while yet.

[Crawlerer79]

[quote="Tumor"Even with an 10.5" wide tyre? What brand/size of tyre would you go for then?[/quote]

Yep, 255s are 10" wide. So your average 31x10.50 is about 265 wide. Personally I'm tossing up either 30x9.50x15s or 31x10.50x15 and trying to figure out the pros and cons. As I mainly do river work I'm leaning towards 31s but the bigger issue for me is guard clearance. For you I have no idea, I'll leave it to you as you know best as to what you're gonna be driving with them. There are plenty of articles to read (http://www.expeditionswest.com/research ... _rev1.html is a good one). You could probably stuff 235/85R16s under (32x9.5s) but they will put a lot of stress on gear for only an extra inch under the diffs compared with a 30". Super Swamper make a 31x9.50x15 (and I think SImex used to) which I think would be a great size, except a Super Swamper is the completely wrong pattern for Canterbury rivers etc. but I dunno what driving you do down in Dunedin. And again it's personal preference. Ask around local clubs and see what's popular.... they're gonna know what works for where you are.

[Tumor]

Yep, 255s are 10" wide. So your average 31x10.50 is about 265 wide. Personally I'm tossing up either 30x9.50x15s or 31x10.50x15 and trying to figure out the pros and cons. As I mainly do river work I'm leaning towards 31s but the bigger issue for me is guard clearance. For you I have no idea, I'll leave it to you as you know best as to what you're gonna be driving with them. There are plenty of articles to read (http://www.expeditionswest.com/research ... _rev1.html is a good one). You could probably stuff 235/85R16s under (32x9.5s) but they will put a lot of stress on gear for only an extra inch under the diffs compared with a 30". Super Swamper make a 31x9.50x15 (and I think SImex used to) which I think would be a great size, except a Super Swamper is the completely wrong pattern for Canterbury rivers etc. but I dunno what driving you do down in Dunedin. And again it's personal preference. Ask around local clubs and see what's popular.... they're gonna know what works for where you are.

Thanks for that.
We don't have any rivers to drive around in down here. So the most common terrain that I will be driving is sand and mud.

As for the Super Swampers 4wdbits doesn't sell the 9.50" wide 31s.....