Can U put a high pinion front Toyota 9' ....

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:41 am

I have an 89' LJ71 SWB cruiser that has 8" diffs, i am seriously considering gettn & modifying a series 60 9"rear full floater diff - as 60 parts are cheap in NZ plus they're built tough ( not sure if they come in "fullfloat" for that model ? ) and using a front high pinion housing/3rd member in the rear , may have to change out the rear crown wheel & pinion to suit - is this possible ?? (will be running disk brake rear )

Why do i want this , well this SWB i have could well have a tough 13BTT or a 14BTT under the boonet in the coming months and will be doing a lift for 33 x 13.5 tyres and don't want any driveline issues as may be running a splitter between the Engine & H55J box , so need a High pinion housing in the rear , I used to be a jeeper and alot of people were running around with High pinion Dana 60 rear ends , so thats where the idea came from !

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:06 pm

Are you talking about a dana 60 or a 60 series cruiser? I didnt think dana 60's were easy to find here in NZ, unless you were talking about a landrover salisbury (which would have the wrong ratios for you anyway).

If you are talking about dana 60's where do you get them from as I had looked for awhile, and had never found any unless they were LR ones.

Dana 60's must be pretty strong as I have heard of 80 series cruisers taking teeth off of a high pinion while going up a hill in reverse

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:41 pm

nah i meant from a series 60 landcruiser,

i know someone who is selling parts from one at a good price , so if turns out to be a full floater rear diff - will buy it aswell as the front . will pull the high pinion housing out of the front ( change over the crownwheel & pinion ) and put it in the rear , may have to shorten the axles & tubes to suit my LJ71 and swap over the spring perch, etc . will swap my front disc's and caliper's with the series 60 ones as their vented and mine are solid -

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:05 am

I didnt know there were 60 series high pinion diffs :scratch:

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:42 am

a; why not put the whole 60 diff in, its wider = more stability.

b; high pinion 60's?

c; 60's do have full floaters. i got one.. :wink:

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:43 am

cool to know alot are full float , as will be towing a trailer at different times .
As far as i know high pinion were in the front of series 60's , my SWB has 8' diffs and its got a high pinion in the front to clear the tie rod , i think the guy who's selling the series 60 parts has a high pinion aswell.

whats the width from drum to drum of a 9' series 60 rear ? think it may be too wide for my LJ71 !

IcedJohnno · Post by **IcedJohnno** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:02 pm

adventures_more wrote: As far as i know high pinion were in the front of series 60's , my SWB has 8' diffs and its got a high pinion in the front to clear the tie rod , .

Unless the Bundera is different in the front end from my KZJ71 Prado, I think you will find the front end is a 7.5" Crownwheel.

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:19 pm

IcedJohnno wrote:
adventures_more wrote: As far as i know high pinion were in the front of series 60's , my SWB has 8' diffs and its got a high pinion in the front to clear the tie rod , .

Unless the Bundera is different in the front end from my KZJ71 Prado, I think you will find the front end is a 7.5" Crownwheel.

The 7.5" crownwheel is what the IFS yota's run. They are 8"

Im sure cruisers with the 9" crownwheel never had a high pinion diff. The tierod on a cruiser runs along the front of the housing.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:28 pm

60 series cruisers: 9" low-pinion diffs
70 series cruisers: same

70-series prados (inc. bundera): 8" low pinion rear, 8" high pinion front

They are not interchangeable... I don't know what the spline counts are, but I think the work involved in fitting a high-pinion 8" diff to a 9" housing would be "significant"

Steve

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:06 pm

maybe i did'nt make it clear enough to what i was thinking about doing, here goes again >>

i want to transplant a full float 9" rear end out from a series 60 cruiser ( at the same time change that rear low pinion housing out for a housing with a 9" front high pinion housing from the front a series 60 )& into my LJ71 , that currently has 8" diffs , 8" rear will be swapped out totally .

So i ultimatelly want to build a " Toyota - High pinion 9" Full Floater for the back end " !

will i have any problems ?? will the front Hi-pinion housing bolt up to the rear diff ?

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:12 pm

There are no High pinion 60 series diffs (from what I can tell). Find us a link to prove me wrong though, because I would definitely be interested for a future project

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:24 pm

lookn at seies 60 tommorrow night as picking up a good 2nd hand Transfer case ( with PTO drive ) as mine is noiser than an AC/DC concert at speed !

if it ain't , then can't be too hard to covert my 8' rear into full float , a bit of thinkn and grumbling, scratching the head 100 times & parts all over the place & whammooo ( and after half a dozen few F & C words ) !

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:37 pm

I think you might find the 8" high pinion will be too weak in the back (as it will be driving the gears in reverse). I have heard of 80 series cruisers stuffing crownwheels by driving in reverse up hills :shock:

I have made a full floater rear 8" out of a 40 series cruiser housing (very easy), but im using a low pinion diff. Surely you will be able to get away with using a DC shaft with the pinion tilted at the transfercase?

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:56 pm

why can't i just change the crownwheel & pinion from the reverse pattern ( front ) for a standard one ? i am planning on running a splitter between the engine & box which will push the the whole lot back over a foot in a SWB.

do you have photos of your 8' full float conversion ? we need stuff like that in the tech section here !

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:00 pm

What do you mean?

a) I dont think you can change them (someone correct me)
b) why? the diff will then be turning the wrong way.

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:15 pm

i think it depends where the pinion is situated within the housing ( on which side i mean ) , i think if the "Pinion" in the front High pinion housing is on the same side as the rear pinion housing ( once the front high pinion housing is put in the back diff ) - then all is ok . its once it's on the opposing side of the , thats when it runs in reverse - am i wrong ?
( tryn to imagine it in my head ) have to have a look att he workshop manual to work it out now -lol )

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:30 pm

I have no idea of what you're on about there, but the oil slinger will spin the wrong way, the oil cup that the oil slinger dips into will go dry, and the bearings will pop. It wouldnt be as much of an issue on a very light rig if you overfilled the housing drastically, and it was offroad only, but on a heavy rig such as a cruiser, you will stuff the gears easily, especially with the amount of power that ive read that you are going to put through there.

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:37 pm

easy to modify , just like an engine block - drill & run and internal oil line & make a new oil slinger or modify the existing one . i bet someone has done it successfully ! its already been done well & truly with dana 44's, 60's . etc - used to be a jeeper & thats a big thing in the states !

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:42 pm

pfft, what do I know, Im just a punk 15 year old kid

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:44 pm

turoa wrote:pfft, what do I know, Im just a punk 15 year old kid

You know a LOT more about this crap than I do. I just drive mine and let someone else fix it/work on it :roll:

EDIT: dont get me wrong, I'm not arguing with the punk 15 year old kid part :wink:

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:58 pm

I'm just asking if anyone knows the toyota stuff as i don't .

I just put a post up in pirate4x4.com ( USA hardcore 4x4 site ) , when ever i can't get answer anywhere else , i go there . think its one of the biggest 4x4 tech & forums full stop , everyone i know of who's into well & truly into 4x4's-knows of it !

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:06 pm

" WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY "

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:11 pm

adventures_more wrote:" WHERE THERE'S A WILL, THERE'S A WAY "

As previously stated, your gears are still too weak as they are turning in reverse on the coasting side of the gears. They may be fine for a lighter rig, but not for a heavy one :!:

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:14 pm

Why ask for advice, then when you get it just say you're gonna do it anyway? Why not just do it? Good luck, post pics... we all need a laugh.

Front and rear diffs are the same, be they 8" or 9", in most solid axle Toyota 4WDs (apart from those with high-pinion fronts - although as Turoa so rightly pointed out, they are all 8" and too weak to be used as a main driving diff). The 80-series is the exception to the rule, having an 8" front and a 9" rear...

Here it is again unless you missed it in the few times its already been mentioned (disclaimer: this is to the best of my limited knowledge): There are no 9" high-pinion diff heads in the toyota lineup, and no 9" ring-and-pinion setups you could use to make one as the gears are reverse-cut in a high-pinion diff.

I think we all kinda get what you're thinking of, but I for one can not for the life of me understand why you want a high-pinion in the rear - what will it achieve?

Steve

adventures_more · Post by **adventures_more** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:03 pm

cheers , Wow - i actually had a descriptive response finally , saying precisely why i cannot ! cool cheers for that what i wanted to hear , just had to tell me why and then i'd get it .

Also i like to prove people wrong , sometimes you look like a dickhead when it does'nt work , well atleast you tryed it &gave it a shot , if it works out - you suprise alot of people aswell as yourself eh & make new discoverys ? Ang yep i got a NO from pirate4x4 also about the 9' hi pinion , i wonder about a 8" ?

why you ask , well i am thinking about running either a splitter between the engine & box or dual transfer , which will bugger upper my driveline angles once its lifted , this is why i am seeking a Hi-pinion rear - fair enough ?

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:07 pm

adventures_more wrote:why you ask , well i am thinking about running either a splitter between the engine & box or dual transfer , which will bugger upper my driveline angles once its lifted , this is why i am seeking a Hi-pinion rear - fair enough ?

Solution... use a double cardan from the front of either a solid axle hilux or a 60 series cruiser (not an IFS surf cardan, they have a low angle ability) and use that on the output of the drivetrain, and rotate the rear driveshaft so the pinion points straight up the driveshaft - problem solved, no vibration. What I had to do on the MU due to a short rear shaft and a high angle from the amount of lift and it worked a treat.

And the double cardan joints have been proven strong in all kinds of things - I know theres a guy with a V8 nissan using a hilux one in his rear shaft with no problems.

Steve

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:11 pm

Heres the old shaft and the new d-cardan one I made up...
as long as the UJ is at 0* angle then the d-cardan will eliminate any vibration from the shaft...

Steve

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:16 pm

How to high pinion, avoid acute driveshaft angles and drive on the strong side of the gears?
Can't you start with a low pinion diff in whatever flavour which is strong enough for the job.
Rotate (flip it over) this 180 degrees backwards so the pinion is now facing the rear of the vehicle.
Run the driveshaft over the top to the diff. Replace the flanges on the drive shaft and pinion with gears and make these mesh.
That would achieve all three objectives. Would it not?
Hell, you could then even reduce the gearing with the choses gears on pinion and driveshaft.
There are a couple of engineering hurdles to overcome but wouldn't be impossible.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:28 pm

adventures_more wrote:cheers , Wow - i actually had a descriptive response finally , saying precisely why i cannot ! cool cheers for that what i wanted to hear , just had to tell me why and then i'd get it .

I thought SupraLux was pretty much confirming what Turoa said

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:56 am

DaveM wrote:
adventures_more wrote:cheers , Wow - i actually had a descriptive response finally , saying precisely why i cannot ! cool cheers for that what i wanted to hear , just had to tell me why and then i'd get it .

I thought SupraLux was pretty much confirming what Turoa said

so did I, oh well never mind

Oh, and as for turning over the diff like that, would make a hell of a thing to hang up on when dropping the vehicle over steep objects... good thinking tho...

Steve