Advice from toyota pto guru's please

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:07 pm

I've been offered a complete pto winch off a 60 series cruiser for $220 which sounds like a pretty good price to me, its still on the vehicle so it will be complete with all the linkages, lever, shafts, brackets, bolts, fixings etc. My truck has a split transfer case and I'm pretty sure this pto is attached to a split case. Are the shafts from a 60 series going to be at all compatible with my 70 series or would it end up with too much shagging around to get it to fit?

My current 8274 is still functioning ok but is is an early one and I dont know how much service life is left in the motor and solonoids. Replacement with the pto sounds cheaper at $220 when the 8274 motor finely dies?

Can it be made to fit my 70 series very easily and if it dosent should I buy it any way to put away in the spares collection for a rainy day at that price?

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:15 pm

worst case scenario,

Sadam_Husain wrote: buy it any way to put away in the spares collection for a rainy day

definitely!

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:31 pm

if you dont buy it ill keel joo ! :lol:

yes the PTO will bolt up to your case,yes you will have to (i think)shorten the prop shaft to fit,yes it will need minor shagging around to fit it to your truck(drill some holes,make some brackets,etc) but all that said it would take you a day tops to mount it up if you have a grinder,welder and a few bits of steel laying around.the only thing i dont like about the later PTO unit is it doesnt have a reverse feed on the PTO so you either have to free spool line out or reverse it out which is painfully slow. they are a VERY strong unit and you will never need to do a double line pull ever again like you normally have to with electric winches when your bogged to the balls. the PTO unit will just drag your stuck ass out.

BUY IT !

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:31 pm

forgot to say you MAY have to shorten the prop shaft....not sure :roll:

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:44 pm

Yeah I didn't think I'd need much encouraging to buy it at that price even if it only gets entered as stock into the spare parts collection. If I never use it someone else will.

I'd probably run into a bit of additional shagging around with trying to get the shaft through the middle of the chev block hugger on the passengers side, anythings do-able but can take a bit/lot of work sometimes?

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:49 pm

Sadam_Husain wrote: a bit of additional shagging around with trying to get the shaft through the middle of the chev block hugger on the passengers side

Maybe Mrs Husain will have to let me get some of those nice throaty exhausts like Jumpers now :shock:

mroffroader · Post by **mroffroader** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:15 am

Sadam_Husain wrote:
Sadam_Husain wrote: a bit of additional shagging around with trying to get the shaft through the middle of the chev block hugger on the passengers side

Maybe Mrs Husain will have to let me get some of those nice throaty exhausts like Jumpers now

yes and with the left overs you will have you need to give them to MrO so he can do his :lol:

BJ71 · Post by **BJ71** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:17 pm

The 60# PTo shaft has the universals in different places and may for memory have one less that a 70#. I would expect to shag around a bit lengthening and shortening the shafts to make it fit.

I have 60# set up to go into a KZJ71 and it isn't a straight bolt up. It would also pay to check you have the PTO gear in the transfer. my KZJ71 didn't. just pop the PTO cover plate to see if its there.

IcedJohnno · Post by **IcedJohnno** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:20 pm

BJ71 wrote:I have 60# set up to go into a KZJ71 and it isn't a straight bolt up.

What is difficult about it, I will shortly have one to do too?.

[/quote]It would also pay to check you have the PTO gear in the transfer. my KZJ71 didn't. just pop the PTO cover plate to see if its there. [/quote]

My KZJ-71 doesnt have the gear and spacer either. $65 from Just Cruisers in Rangiora, speak to Nigel. He's on this forum somewhere.

Cheers John

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:51 pm

BJ71 wrote: It would also pay to check you have the PTO gear in the transfer. my KZJ71 didn't. just pop the PTO cover plate to see if its there.

IcedJohnno wrote:My KZJ-71 doesnt have the gear and spacer either. $65 from Just Cruisers in Rangiora, speak to Nigel. He's on this forum somewhere.
Cheers John

I just assumed the pto meshed into one of the idler gears or something like that :scratch:
The trucks a NZ new fj75, dunno if they came with the pto gear or not in the transfer box? I've got a spare split transfer box off a bj40 in the spare parts box so I could have a wee look into that also?

BJ71 · Post by **BJ71** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:05 am

It is possible, i have a mate who has done it with a 70# shaft, The 60# shaft just involves a little more shagging about,

Its the little things like the chassis rails not having the captive nuts in the right place etc. but then thats what welders are for. Is still very do able.

Also some 60# PTo units have the forward and reverse gears in the PTO box also (70# only have foward), this isnt a problem if the PTo has good bearings but if it doesn't the idler is constantly engaged on the 60# (the 70# isn't), so can tend to get a bit noisy.

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:54 pm

picked up the winch from the guy today, got to remove it from the vehicle myself so its all complete with the linkages, brackets, levers, rubber boots, shafts, pillow blocks, flanges and even cut out a piece of the gearbox tunnel where the engagement lever comes through.

The clutch lever on the winch is partialy siezed but shouldn't be a major to free it up again. All the bearings in the pillow blocks seem ok and run smoove and the UJ's other than the one I damaged when I had to heat the shaft to get the yoke off seem ok too.

I'd be looking at some pretty tricky exhaust work to get the pto shafts down the chassis rail so the whole lot will go into the spares collection for a rainy day at this stage.

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:56 pm

sahweet!!!!!!!!!

:twisted:

markr · Post by **markr** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:20 pm

BJ71 wrote:The 60# PTo shaft has the universals in different places and may for memory have one less that a 70#. I would expect to shag around a bit lengthening and shortening the shafts to make it fit.

I have 60# set up to go into a KZJ71 and it isn't a straight bolt up. It would also pay to check you have the PTO gear in the transfer. my KZJ71 didn't. just pop the PTO cover plate to see if its there.

YEP my 71 prado didnt have the gears either. Gave the idea away in the end and just replaced the electric winch...

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:48 pm

score ! !

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:25 am

I took the plate off the side of my transferbox the other day and there was no pto drive gear. I was round at my mates place tonight and picked up my spare 40 series split transfercase and that has the drive in it. Dunno if they put the pto gear in all the 40 series stuff regardless of whether the pto was installed or not and then cut costs in the 70 series and only installed the pto drive gear if the pto was installed?

Well I do have a question after all that, I did a bit of a search around on shear pins and it seams the standard ones are under rated and shear easily/frequently, the winch I brought had a sheared 4" nail as a shear pin. Do the standard pins shear that easily and does any one drill them out to 1/4" or use anything else for a shear pin

my searching has come up with
drilling out to 1/4"
using a 4" nail
grade 4.4 bolts
using a drill bit as a shear pin
?????

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:24 am

Sadam_Husain wrote: use anything else for a shear pin?????

surely they use the shear pin for that exact purpose? a manufactured weak point in the pto's driveline so as to insure that point fails..

someone will comment that has practical experience with them, as i have not.... yet. :twisted:

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:15 am

Sadam_Husain wrote:I took the plate off the side of my transferbox the other day and there was no pto drive gear. I was round at my mates place tonight and picked up my spare 40 series split transfercase and that has the drive in it. Dunno if they put the pto gear in all the 40 series stuff regardless of whether the pto was installed or not and then cut costs in the 70 series and only installed the pto drive gear if the pto was installed?

Well I do have a question after all that, I did a bit of a search around on shear pins and it seams the standard ones are under rated and shear easily/frequently, the winch I brought had a sheared 4" nail as a shear pin. Do the standard pins shear that easily and does any one drill them out to 1/4" or use anything else for a shear pin

my searching has come up with
drilling out to 1/4"
using a 4" nail
grade 4.4 bolts
using a drill bit as a shear pin
?????

i put a high tensile M12 bolt in mine :twisted:

hasnt broken yet

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:40 am

niblik wrote:
surely they use the shear pin for that exact purpose? a manufactured weak point in the pto's driveline so as to insure that point fails..

I'm usually of the same thinking there Nib that theres a reason for it being the size it is and a broken shear pin is much better than a broken winch, pto or shaft or gearbox and much easier to fix out in the scrub..... but searching accross the US forums they all bitch about the low threshold of the shear pin and recommend drilling it out to a larger size for better reliability. the factory pin looks to be about 4mm which seems pretty small to me, my medium size tifror has pins about 8 or 10 mm from memory :scratch:

wopass wrote:i put a high tensile M12 bolt in mine hasnt broken yet

Shit

wouldn't that make it more bolt than PTO shaft :scratch:

mercutio · Post by **mercutio** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:34 pm

Sadam_Husain wrote:
niblik wrote:
surely they use the shear pin for that exact purpose? a manufactured weak point in the pto's driveline so as to insure that point fails..

I'm usually of the same thinking there Nib that theres a reason for it being the size it is and a broken shear pin is much better than a broken winch, pto or shaft or gearbox and much easier to fix out in the scrub..... but searching accross the US forums they all bitch about the low threshold of the shear pin and recommend drilling it out to a larger size for better reliability. the factory pin looks to be about 4mm which seems pretty small to me, my medium size tifror has pins about 8 or 10 mm from memory :scratch:

wopass wrote:i put a high tensile M12 bolt in mine hasnt broken yet

Shit
wouldn't that make it more bolt than PTO shaft :scratch:

my old neighbour uses 1/4 inch caps screws as his shear pins he still breaks them occasionally but nowhere near as often as he used to

BrentC · Post by **BrentC** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:38 am

wopass wrote:
i put a high tensile M12 bolt in mine hasnt broken yet

Which is better than $24 per pin ex Toyota :shock:

xorph · Post by **xorph** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:48 pm

I use an R clip available from any engineering supplies place. works great so far
This is how I got it:
I placed my old 60 series in a swamp just off 90 mile beach.
Buried the spare tyre to winch from but it was so stuck it broke the shear pin. the bumper was also touching the waterline.
I had to get underneath bumper to fix. Over the next 5 hours i was toiling with a snorkel and goggles to replace the shear pin with various nails and screwdriver bits whilst my friend tried to build a water tight moat around me. But low, it chewed everything I put into it.
then out of nowhere a one armed man turned up and said 'i kept this spare when i had my 40 series'
shiny new R clip. 60 series floats to sink another day

muddy · Post by **muddy** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:54 am

Interesting thread for me. My winch hasn't done any serious work but that will change at Reefton in a couple of weeks. I'm using a 4mm capscrew, which failed as it should when I forgot to disengage the PTO and drove off... I don't know if it broke too easily though. I've got a couple of spares, but I'll throw a couple of 4in masonry nails in as well.

BrentC · Post by **BrentC** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:13 am

xorph wrote:I use an R clip available from any engineering supplies place. works great so far

I like that idea - much easier to get in and lock.

I had a pin fail winching a guy up a steep bank - we had to get the tifor out to take load off before I could move

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:48 am

i was told yesterday that you can get clutch packs for about $180 that you weld into your input shaft and you can set the torque where they will let go, then just put in a pin that will never break and your away.

Pete

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:11 am

Petemcc wrote:i was told yesterday that you can get clutch packs for about $180 that you weld into your input shaft and you can set the torque where they will let go, then just put in a pin that will never break and your away.

Pete

I would assume they would be very similar to (if not the same as) the clutches used on PTO shafts for 3-point-linkage gear on tractors?

Steve

Petemcc · Post by **Petemcc** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:03 pm

yip think thats the one.

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:26 pm

small update to my shear pin, i have just pulled it out and it isnt an M12 cap screw. its an M8 cap screw :twisted:

still a bit of over kill but it hasnt broken yet and the worm hasnt tryed to come out of the box either :wink:

and its had some pretty serious work :twisted:

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:26 pm

Hey Marty,
What are you going to do with your old winch? Still seems to work OK to me judging by last weekend
I would definitely be interested in taking this of your hands if you want to sell.

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:40 pm

The 8274 won't be going any where for a while cloggy, I'm just doing a bit of forward planning as its quite an old winch and I know the motors are pretty expensive to replace when the smoke finely comes out of them... especially the high horsepower ones

It almost crawls to a stop under heavy load but as you saw it just keeps on going millimetre by millimetre
..... would look pretty cool on the front of that landrover of yours too cloggy

Advice from toyota pto guru's please

Advice from toyota pto guru's please

Re: Advice from toyota pto guru's please