-- Unrated Towhooks --

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:05 pm

mike wrote:
Actually it wasnt an ORE trip jerry, One or two of the people on the trip happened to be from this site.

Mike

You mean one or two of the people on the trip just happened to also use the ORE public forums.

Its just a public forum, it has no official status as such :roll:

jdeburgh · Post by **jdeburgh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:09 pm

jdeburgh wrote:
Jerry wrote:I don't see anyone else offering any other serious or practical suggestions.....

Including some 'guidlines' about hook mounting by me. All of mine have plates on the nut side, bolted right through the chassis by 8.8 bolts and crush tubes inside. All of which have passed the Manawatu club inspections day made by suitably qualified personnel.

They have been other quite good suggestions on here too. just none about making rules.

John

There you are, but they are voluntary, up to trip leaders ORE or otherwise, if they want to, to say yea or nea, to who goes on a trip for whatever reason. i think safety is a problem for each individaul and individuals are responsible for it, otherwise its a don't come policy.

John

Post by **mike** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:15 pm

DieselBoy wrote:
mike wrote:
Actually it wasnt an ORE trip jerry, One or two of the people on the trip happened to be from this site.

Mike

You mean one or two of the people on the trip just happened to also use the ORE public forums.

Its just a public forum, it has no official status as such

Yeah and that, but actually the trip was never mentioned let alone organised from the forums so there is no way it could be classed as an ORE trip, it would be the same as saying a group of mates went off hunting and one had a RedNeck deer stalkers forum sticker on his gun that the RedNeck deer stalkers orgranised the trip.

For those that are wondering what I'm on about, this is about a trip last year (NOT THIS TRIP in which the hook came off) in canterbury by a group who go into difficulty and a couple of them happened to be ORE members. All I'm saying is that because there was an ORE sticker on a truck does not mean its an ORE organised trip.

Mike

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:17 pm

^^ Yeah, exactly!!!!!!!

Post by **mike** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:29 pm

Sorry Ryan,

Deleted your post cause i updated mine.

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:38 pm

Jerry wrote:...I'm not trying to create extra rules or extra unnecessary compliance...

Hmmm â€¦ reflect on your initial post in this forum Jerry, rather contradicts the above donâ€™t you think :?:

Jerry wrote:OK we need to start thinking about checking towhooks and having some basic towhook standards on ALL ORE trips ...

SupraLux wrote:I'll refrain from commenting on the side issues that have appeared... once again the forum has lapsed into childish namecalling and dribble...
Steve

Then later recorded:

SupraLux wrote:
Jerry wrote:I don't see anyone else offering any other serious or practical suggestions.....

You mean you didn't actually read ANYTHING in the preceeding pages of posts? Stop throwing your toys out of the cot and take on board whats being said to you...

If one person disagrees with you then thats just a disagreement... If everyone disagrees with you then chances are you're a twat...
Steve

No "childish namecalling" from you eh Steve.
:lol:

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:54 pm

to me reading this it seems like its everyone vs jerry.
seems like a typical forum.
everyone is tough... in front of their computer.

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:56 pm

there's lots of different points of view, name calling, throwing toys out of the cot etc....

AS I SEE IT THROUGH MY ONE NARROW :cyclops: EYE

all the responsibility lied with myself in this incident for the following reasons

1. it was my discression and choice to recover or not recover the vehicle.

2. as my safety is my personal responsibility the point of connection to both vehicles is at my discression to check. There are other accepted and safe connection points that can be used on either vehicle such as solid diff housings chassis's etc

3. I've been around long enough to know about the forces involved in recoveries and know about the forces that can be exerted and having pulled a hook off a landrover 10 years ago complete with bullbar and bits of box section chassis attatched I know first hand what can happen

4. I've got a 10 ton cruiser with a chev V8 that can easily produce forces well in excess of what would be considered safe to use

5. I was in sole control of the amount of force put on the recovery

although I wouldnt consider the amount of force applied to be excessive or extreme it was 2 or maybe 3 pulls of incrementing force and the attempt that dislodged the hook was a hard pull

I think John DeBurgh is the only one so far that has considered the recovery technique as well as the hook on the vehicle being recovered

jdeburgh wrote:
The other thing is recovery technique, how much of a part did this play in the result? Not being there i can't comment.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:58 pm

for Jerry,
Maybe you should start listing and running some ORE ass trips
and you can invite other forum members...then you can abide by the hook rules already set out....
and if people dont want to get hooks done correctly then they dont go??
there is enough ORE supporters and forum members in wgtn who have the right equipment and hooks etc....
and then you can start your thing about three trips before you need hooks for other people who tag along......
thats the only way you can make people follow ORE rules and regulations??

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:59 pm

Leithfield wrote:
SupraLux wrote:I'll refrain from commenting on the side issues that have appeared... once again the forum has lapsed into childish namecalling and dribble...
Steve

Then later recorded:
SupraLux wrote:
Jerry wrote:I don't see anyone else offering any other serious or practical suggestions.....

You mean you didn't actually read ANYTHING in the preceeding pages of posts? Stop throwing your toys out of the cot and take on board whats being said to you...

If one person disagrees with you then thats just a disagreement... If everyone disagrees with you then chances are you're a twat...

Steve

No "childish namecalling" from you eh Steve.

Never let it be said that I can't namecall and dribble childishly with the best of them :lol:

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:38 pm

SO hear me out here.

Sadam, yes it was you in sole controll of all of the above, but did you know daisys tow hook was going to come off? I think the answer is no, I didn't, and with any snatch recovery there is a risk.
Cloggys tow strop snaped but that hasn't been bought up.

Now lets look at jerry, a) not pointing the finger and b) not standing to benifit from any of this.

infact, it has cost him money to get the proper hooks mounted on his vehicle, and his time to post.

but who does having some sort of standards benifit, the answer is every one.

lets look at it what if, for example daisy was snatching mark and handbrake out, and the hook went flying back through the window, and collected one of the wee ones on the way through. (sorry to single you out)

basicly what I'm saying is this supra and leith jerry has made a relivant call, that I feel needs to be bought up again and again, just to ram it home to people like you who are just basicly like school yard bullys, tough untill it comes to the crunch.

*generally now*
what if YOU were being snatched and something broke and YOU were killed, who would be left greiving, you wife? children? parents? grand parents?

we as a responsible forum need some sort of standards for both hooks and safety devices, on all trips planned however.

singling out supralux and leithfeild
please stop name calling and attacking one person, its not nice and it portrays you badly, I don't know either of you personally but I don't like the way you portray yourselves over the internet.

oh and daisy, I hope you fix your truck ok, if you need a hand just hollah, I'm sure jerry and myself would be happy to help

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:42 pm

warlord-- i would think if someone was to be snatch recovered they would be pretty silly leaving their kiddies in the car wouldnt they??
i thought anyone including kiddies should be away from the recovery area??

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:47 pm

Ryan wrote:warlord-- i would think if someone was to be snatch recovered they would be pretty silly leaving their kiddies in the car wouldnt they??
i thought anyone including kiddies should be away from the recovery area??

I can't see people taking kids out of a vehicle when they are in the middle of a bog

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:56 pm

well i would knowing that snatch straps have been known to break on occation...

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:58 pm

this is the last post i this topic from me, but we all know things brake you don't know when normally, but all you can do is your best to make sure that it doesn't happen.

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:59 pm

warlord225 wrote: â€¦ basicly what I'm saying is this supra and leith jerry has made a relivant call, that I feel needs to be bought up again and again, just to ram it home to people like you who are just basicly like school yard bullys, tough untill it comes to the crunch.

â€¦ singling out supralux and leithfeild please stop name calling and attacking one person, its not nice and it portrays you badly, I don't know either of you personally but I don't like the way you portray yourselves over the internet.

Conveniently ignoring the fact he commenced name calling thus:

warlord225 wrote:oy. Leave jerry to his mindless rambling, and by "telling someone off" over the internet you look like a putz.
*putz - go look it up

Warlord225, you miss the point that the issue of towhooks, pardon the pun, has been done to death.

No one is doubting Jerryâ€™s sincerity or concern for the safety of all ORE members; however, the efficacy of his repetitively proposed method is, and will remain, in dispute.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:03 pm

I can't see how people are "silly" for leaving kids in a vehicle when recovering. If it's a dangerous situation, fine, but lets be realistic.
There are risks involved yes, but are people silly for having kids in a 4wd on road, after all, they have been known to roll on occassion.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:42 pm

Jerry, no matter what you do or say, you will not please everyone on this topic.

The best you can do is inform people of the risks involved in recoveries, and should recovery points be suspect, inform the person(s) involved.

If you truely believe that recovery points should be to a minimum standard for recovery points (and good on you for thinking this), then on all trips you organise, enforce these standards, and on trips where you are "along for the ride" refuse to recover vehicles with inadequate recovery points, and suggest to others to do the same, or at the very least caution them.

Goose · Post by **Goose** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:58 pm

Wow.....!

ummm, ok......

just read this thread in its entirety, and it sounds to me like there's quite a few people here who need a good cuddle.

a cuddle always makes you feel better

peace be with you my brothers and sisters.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:06 pm

thanks goose im always up for a good cuddle

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:07 pm

YEAH RITE!!!

jdeburgh · Post by **jdeburgh** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:14 pm

Goose wrote:Wow.....!

ummm, ok......

just read this thread in its entirety, and it sounds to me like there's quite a few people here who need a good cuddle.

a cuddle always makes you feel better

peace be with you my brothers and sisters.

As long as the person doing the cuddling looks like Mr.O's avatar (not Mr. O though). Mike's avatar would give a nice cuddle too - actaually his would make a nice pair of air bags, or they could be mounted (excuse the pun) on a rear windows to stop stray hookers, umm I mean hooks!

John
!

pouw · Post by **pouw** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:25 pm

Personally, if was organising a trip and didnt like the look of someones towhooks I would tell them they could come but I would not be performing a snatch on their vehicle.

Ive been in the position before (my Pajero drowning in water) and was fortunate enough to be helped by another chap in a Pajero. I only had factory hooks and would have accepted it if he had said no. To be honest in hindsight he should have and yes I would have let my car drown without argument.

We did out best to limit the implications by applying a heavy stockman jacket over the towstrap, getting everyone a good 50 metres from the vehicles and draping a tarp over the back window. I think we did as good as we could in the situation.

I agree with the need for safety, lets just show some commonsense, trip organisers inspecting towhooks and making it clear what is thought of them and the implications to the owner of the vehicle should they get into difficulty.

Lets not get ourselves into a rampant argument filled with personal insult over a sentiment I think we all share, safety first and 'Lets be careful out there'

)

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:37 pm

I don't see anyone else offering any other serious or practical suggestions

Maybe that's because we are getting on wth it :!:

We have run two training days down here in Canterbury and I am thinking of runnng a third shortly as people have been asking me for it.
It is up to the trip leader to sort the safety shit for trips Jerry, both in and out of club ones. Dudes on my trips know they will get an earfull if they don't tow the line, and practice safety. Many of them have :lol:

. How many trips you actually run mate :?:

As for that allusion to the Ashley incident, we have enough shit to deal with from that in Canterbury, no need for you to drag it back onto the forum.
Al

thanks goose im always up for a good cuddle

you ant met goose have ya :!:

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:49 pm

i wouldnt mind coming to one of your training days Al they sond good
and no i havent met goose.....should i be worried?

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:42 pm

Ryan wrote:i wouldnt mind coming to one of your training days Al they sond good
and no i havent met goose.....should i be worried?

You would be most welcome to join in one of the Southern training days Ryan, as would be anyone else from outta town for that matter.

As for Goose, I aint saying nowt!

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:43 pm

albundy wrote:
I am thinking of runnng a third shortly as people have been asking me for it.

I'll be a starter to help out Al.

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:52 pm

Ryan wrote:should i be worried?

yes... very...

:lol:

H2OLOVA · Post by **H2OLOVA** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:04 pm

Ryan wrote:and no i havent met goose.....should i be worried?

Niblik wrote:yes... very...

very very very

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:38 am

well i think ill keep out of chch then........