Defending the Anzac trip

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:07 pm

Maybe if we had had some more senior members there it could have been pointed out at the time that something wasnt appropriate. Sure, driving through a ditch maynot be 100% appropriate, but is driving up and down banks at a river much different? Whether it be in the flood plain or not. Ive been on many trips where people have not followed specific tracks, and no one was told off then.

And no, this wasnt an association trip. Would it have been any different if it was?

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:25 pm

hi who's upset up elmo, thought you had a fun day,

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:29 pm

Im not upset at all, other than the fact the thread was locked, after condeming people, and not allowing people the right to defend themselves. I just opened this thread to see if we would be allowed the right to defend ourselves. Lets just wait and see.

Im interested to see if there is a pot, and if its black! ;-)

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:30 pm

Oh, and yes, it was a fantastic day, following all legal roads of course! ;-)

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:45 pm

oh locked huh, thats why couldn't find it to see whats going on

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:52 pm

I am both dissapointed and concerned by your response Elmo. At Easter my family and I were fortunate enough to attend a Non-Association trip you co-lead to Napoleons Cave, and therein you exercised great respect for the environment and public image of 4wding; to now claim ignorance of such responsiblity in the absence of "more senior members" is farcical. You also do your peers a disservice by inferring that they drive "up and down banks", for this is neither condoned or common practice.

And yes, had it been an Association trip it would have been different, for such ill-considered conduct would not have been supported. Further, though not an Asssociation trip, any Association member presently implicated can expect club censure and disciplinary consequence.

Kevin Dougherty
PRO Southern
ORE 4x4 Assoc. Iinc.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

Sure, something happened that probably shouldnt have happened. I admit that I was the first one to drive through the ditch. Others just followed through there own free will. It was a lapse in judgement I guess, I would still have done it if more senior members were there, maybe it would have stopped at just me, maybe not.

If disaplinery action is taken, from the club on me, then so be it, but all that has been done wrong is posting a pic (which has since been removed), as it wasnt an association club trip.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:01 pm

Hope this doesn't turn into attacks on individuals, but yet another experience to learn from.

I'm sure most people have driven in areas where perhaps they shouldn't have, a lot of this is due to putting the truck into gear before our brains (this is not having a go at anyone in respect to the current topic though)

Dave

red-devil · Post by **red-devil** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:10 pm

there is a small car park on the other side of the creek, this gets torn up every winter by the hoons.

and there have been manys car try to drive over the ditch too :oops:

if every one is worryed about damage i can drop in and check for you all.

i am not trying to say that it was the right thing to do at the time.

just my 5 cents

Post by **mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:15 pm

If disaplinery action is taken, from the club on me, then so be it, but all that has been done wrong is posting a pic (which has since been removed), as it wasnt an association club trip.

now that the pic has been removed people will not know what the issue is as the item in discussion has be taken away from the whole argument. Any new comers will no longer be able to be educated. Perhaps a thread on 4wd behaviour in nz needs to be established so as to preserve 4wding for everyone. Although the percieved image of 4wding in nz, for newcomers to the sport, is mainly guided by what is shown on tv, v8 powered 4wds nailing it up banks with wheels spinning in trials and winch comps.

Mike

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:18 pm

I'll post a pic back in same position of other members doing similar things if you like?

Post by **mike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:23 pm

Elmo wrote:I'll post a pic back in same position of other members doing similar things if you like?

Ok but make sure they have road signs in the back ground, public toilets and mowed grass :wink:

Don't need to get defensive about it, I just want new people to learn because this just keeps happening and happening and its not you the members of the forum that get the flak its ME the admin!

Mike

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:33 pm

The public road very close to one of the vehicles does come into the story very well. In one of the cases anyway.

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:36 pm

Elmo - take some time out and consider your responses. All that is required here is an acknowledgement of error in judgement (already tendered), and an unconditional apology. Whether or not it was an Association trip, members of the Association are expected to exercise the ethics which underpin our core values, so as not to bring the Association 'by association' into disrepute.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:37 pm

Sanctions GOOD GRIEF
what load of bollocks....ive had a good look through this site & cant find any rules of conduct etc & when i joined i sure didnt agree to any rules...whats the guts....sounds like a bit of a kangaroo outfit here.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:40 pm

As you know, I have apologised, the best I can offer from here is an apology in advance for any other lack of judgements I make in the future.

4wdnuts · Post by **4wdnuts** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:41 pm

Disco-Blue · Post by **Disco-Blue** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:48 pm

Ok im am really a newbie to this forum and to off roading. Now some off us on the trip made a mistake. I can guarintee that the people that made the mistake are truly sorry for making it.

Also.. I don't think it is wise to judge a person by the mistake they have made. Everybody makes mistakes. What is important that we learnt our lesson. It doesn't matter how experienced that you are at anyting, you will always make a mistake.

Nobody drove intentionally into that ditch to cause any damage to either the ditch or the off roading community.

What done is done and as I said earlier we are all sorry.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:24 pm

I'm guessing the Anzac day fundraiser trips will be run as an Association trips next year so lets just learn from the mistakes and get over it. I'm not commenting any further or putting my 10c in.....

Perhaps someone can GPS map where and where not to go so this doesn't happen in the future.....Mike have you created that GPS section that I suggested yet?

padero · Post by **padero** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:34 pm

wheres the picture ??

was the ditch on the track and was any damage actualy done to the land or envioment ?

ad

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:40 pm

I removed the pic.

It was on the side of a road, fairly well maintained, between the road and a domain, in a semi residential area. So yeah, prolly not the best place to drive. I bet we werent the first to do it, and Im sure we wont be the last either.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:46 pm

Whats done is done, like you said, probably not the best place to have gone, but if you thought you were doing the wrong thing at the time, you wouldn't have done it! Sh#t happens, we learn from it.

Good on you for trying to organise a fund raiser.

billyvanboheman · Post by **billyvanboheman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:54 pm

DaveM wrote:Whats done is done, Sh#t happens, we learn from it.

Good on you for trying to organise a fund raiser.

Well said Dave, lets not try to drag it out, I would hate to see others put off organising further tag along trips.

How many of us started in 4WD'N with a tag along trip :?:

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:12 pm

DaveM wrote:... I sure as hell wouldn't put up with people demanding/requesting an apology.

Hmmm ... further inflame current tensions within Canterbury, bring ORE and the Association (by association) into disrepute, blame the absence of "senior members", and cast dispersion on other forum members ("driving up and down banks"; "I'll post a pic back in same position of other members doing similar things if you like?") ; yep, suggesting an apology might be in order is entirely unreasonable :!:

.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:18 pm

Leithfield wrote:
DaveM wrote:... I sure as hell wouldn't put up with people demanding/requesting an apology.

Hmmm ... further inflame current tensions within Canterbury, bring ORE and the Association (by association) into disrepute, blame the absence of "senior members", and cast dispersion on other forum members ("driving up and down banks"; "I'll post a pic back in same position of other members doing similar things if you like?") ; yep, suggesting an apology might be in order is entirely unreasonable .

Who are you to demand an apology? A mistake was made, fine, but you seem to demand an apology, threaten some form of punishment for these actions :?:

I know of members doing things they perhaps shouldn't have, not only on this forum, but from other clubs.
I thought we were here to educate people, not shoot them down on a public forum?

padero · Post by **padero** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:21 pm

wooo steady on lads, you know chin chin and all that.

has there been a complaint laid agaisnt the trip by the general public as of late ? or ORE its self ?

ad

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:27 pm

padero wrote:wooo steady on lads, you know chin chin and all that.

has there been a complaint laid agaisnt the trip by the general public as of late ? or ORE its self ?

ad

Well, I will apologise if there has been any offence taken with my posts, I just hate people being made example of, when there are others on here than have made the exact same mistake in the past, it's just bad timing for this at the moment.

Got a little hot under the collar there Liethfield, and sometimes I type faster than my brain works (and I don't type very fast......) :oops:

Didn't mean to inflame the situation further, as there has been enough of this "in house" arguing lately.
Again, my apologies to all for dragging this out further than it needed to be.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:34 pm

What do I need to apoligise for? Saying that MAYBE it may have been different if senior members were there? No blame was laid on the absence of senior members, maybe I am due an apology for the false acusation.

Or is it for having proof, but not showing it of other members of the club doing similar things?

Im unsure

What I dont like, is the fact that the finger has been pointed at me, or someone else on the run, by people that arent in the position to point fingers (I am talking about 2 of the people that have pointed so far)

I agree, this has gone on too far. An apology was made for the mistake a LONG time ago in the posts. yet it has continued. I will continue posting as long as there is critisim coming.

Yep, I know, 'you do the crime, be prepared to do the time'

And 'those that live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones'

No one is perfect, yet it appears there are people on here that seem to expect it.

People make mistakes, its been pointed out. Ive learnt not to post pics! Im in the frame of mind at the moment to remove all the pics I have posted, just incase some one condems me, or anyone else in them further!

I give no further apology.

philux · Post by **philux** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:47 pm

right o. when i was in the ditch i turned and said to my passenger that this was not a good idea :oops:

i admitt that it was a f@#kin stupid dicision to go through the ditch, but as said we have all prolly done something similar along these lines sometime. It defintly wasnt my intention to go ripping up some nice lawn beside the road just for shits and giggles to cop us all some abuse.

Leithfield · Post by **Leithfield** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:50 pm

No offence taken Dave - there's always two sides to every position, and here's mine:

1/ Association members are bound by the NZFWDA code of ethics.

2/ An apology was suggested.

3/ You presume "punishment"; I read "censure" and "disciplinary action" as a formal reminder of the code of ethics and responsibility.

4/ As the Association Southern PRO, I'm the one who is principally charged with managing the Association's public image in these parts, and yes, I have fielded "concerned" calls re the original post, and particularly Elmo's subsequent response (yes, this very evening!).

5/ If anyone else would like to take on the role of Association Southern PRO, and believes they can offer a better service than I, there will be no hesitation in my stepping down and truly wishing that person every success.

Defending the Anzac trip

Defending the Anzac trip

elmo

anzac day