lotsa questions

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:17 pm

Hey guys,

Some questions sorry if they seem dumb :oops:

What does ROH stand for? :scratch:
What is the 'offset' and 'return' referring to?
When referring to a "15 inch rim" what is the other dimension ie 15x8?

What IS an 'MU'?:scratch:

How come, if our trucks weigh what - 1500kg plus - that alot of hand winches, particularly 'black rat' are rated 1600kg - 2mt? Surely with the friction caused by being stuck in mud it's going to be way higher than that? I know all you will want to say is get a real winch, but I am going to get a 4mt hand winch and am wondering about the sort of forces being stuck actually bring?

Do you need special attachments to make proper use of a high lift jack or can you get away without them?

I understand the PROS of getting involved with a club, but, apart from the possibility of having to deal with some um, how should i put this - dickheads - and the obvious restrictions (like having to drive to someone else's schedule), what other CONS are there to joining a club AND is there even one here in Dunedin??

It's not good to be in low ratio when on tarmac (I don't even understand why, how does it know?

) - what about if in deepish snow obviously going slowly? High or low ratio? Remember I live in Dunedin!! :lol:

OK maybe that's enough to keep you all amused for now!! :oops:

Thanks in advance for your wisdom!! :thumright:

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:23 pm

ooo, oooo, me first me first!!!!!!!!

ROH - Buggered if i know, its the brand name the company chose to market those White spoke steel rims under.

15X8, - The 8 is how wide the rim is taken from where the tyre beads on either side. 8" wide.

Offset- Think of the wheel as having two seperate parts, the center and spokes which you bolt to the hub, and the rim which your tyre sits on.
off set is weather the center spokey part is in the center of rim, or if it is offset out wards, making the tyre sit out side the gaurds, or inset, making the tyres sit inside the gaurds.

Mu - Honda Jazz, Isuzu Mu. POS, so not worth the effort thinking about.

Winches, no idea. But generally, people use a pully block to double the strength/power of the winch.
your not talking about those little pretend ones you buy a Repco??
Don't waste your time unless its a proper turfur style hand winch.

Clubs - No cons. Well maybe the joining fee. You get to meet like minded people, get the option of going on trips if you want. Get access to private land at times. Find and go to places you would never have known existed. Don't see what you have to loose!!~!

I'm sure if you did a search on the site using the search function, it would bring up somthing on why you don't use 4 wheel drive on the road.

Depends what you drive, but you do not use 4x4 (with the center diff locked if you drive a full time 4wd vehicle) Low or High range on a hard paved surface.

Simply, you have a diff between the two front wheels to allow them to turn at different speeds to each other and the same at the back.
In 4wd the front wheels need to be able to turn at different speeds to the back, and can't because there is not diff between the front and the back..........................................

I have to go to a meeting, more on this when i get back, its involved :lol:

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:16 pm

Thanks DB, yeah, I just dont get the 4wd on tarmac thing - how can it make a difference to the diff or anything? Ive driven in snow where you couldnt not use 4wd, its the only way to keep moving?

Winches - i'm talking about the ones at supercheap auto, im unsure of the brand, but yes, the pulley trick, so that's a must for the winch use then. "turfur style" - whats that?

Still interested in the high lift advice too?

cainef · Post by **cainef** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:53 pm

Turfur style - like the black rat one you were talking about.
This may give you an indication on their strength. My brother has a 1600kg black rat turfur which he used to winch a commodore with no wheels 20 feet on to a trailer. The car was flat on the grass when he did. And we have a video to prove it.

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:06 pm

what pete said plus....

when on the road eg:full traction, if you put into four wheel drive and try to turn a corner the front and rear wheel speeds are going to be different and something has to slip, normally this would be a tyre slipping off road in the mud or snow, BUT on the nice dry road, this creates massive strain on your driveline,axels,drive shafts,diffs,cv's etc etc etc due to full traction, SO... the thing to do if you need low ratio on the road(not snowy or icey) to back your boat or something like that, unlock you front hubs if you have free wheeling hubs which takes the drive away from your front wheels and select low ratio, this effectivly give you low ratio 2wd... or if you are in the snow and ice then you dont have full traction as your getting slip of the tyres with ease then its perfectly ok to use 4wd,lock your hubs in and go,BUT... as soon as you know you are getting into good traction again, it is advisable to go back to 2wd.... if you have auto locking hubs you cant do the 2wd low range thing as the auto hubs do the locking and you have no say in the matter :evil:

......

that probably made you more confused, it makes sense...honest

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:45 pm

well thanx guys, that kinda clears those things up i guess. except for the high lift, does anyone use one??
OH and what about high ratio 4wd on loose gravel, is that ok? i mean really loose gravel??? :scratch:

Jungle · Post by **Jungle** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:56 pm

My turn.
Hi lift jacks? Is that the question. I've used then for about ten years now and have used it for so many different jobs. I even used it on sat to lift up the hydraulics on the front of a tractor. Breaking beads on tyres. Jacking your vehicle up and pushing it sideways or just driving over the jack. Lift fence posts out of the ground. it goes on and on and on. We used two hi lift jacks to winch my 60 series out of the flooded Waimak river about 4 years ago. The truck was almost fully under water.

Just did the rally of Rotorua. I usually drive it in my 60 series but I had the luxury of taking the 80 this year. Anyway we usually do the entire event in 4 wheel high on the gravel roads. So much more control and there's enough wheel slip to avoid damage.

Ok?

G

cainef · Post by **cainef** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:56 pm

As far as I know as long as you can get a secure strong spot on the truck to jack from where it isn't likely to slip you should be fine. I've never used any special attachments. You may want to make a larger plate to put the foot on as it may dig into soft ground or mud.

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:06 pm

Thanks Cainef and Jungle - yip for sure about the bigger platform under any jack!! and im sweet in 4high in the loose, thanx.

Jungle, u r the high lift master then.......tell me about the driving off the jack technique, like if ur stuck in a rut or something and want to push or drive it off the jack - is it fair to expect damage to the vehicle doing this or is it able to be done 'right' so only the underbody may get scratched up??

Jungle · Post by **Jungle** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:00 pm

If your going to buy a high lift jack go for the original as they have a removable handle. If your truck has bellied out in deep ruts or more likely your sill has got caught up on a stump then you can lift the front of the vehicle up until you clear the stump. Remove handle as they bend very easy when you run over them. The highlift jack will collapse and lie down as you drive over it. Usually doing no damage to jack or vehicle. If you have side bars or rock sliders you can jack off them and then the highlift jack will fall alongside the vehicle and you don't have to dig it out of the mud. yay.

High lift jacks are unstable things. Never try and lift two wheels off the ground at the same time unless you want the vehicle to shift sideways and fall off the jack. And at some time you will want to do just that. So when you build or buy your winch bar and rear bumper. Think about how your high lift jack will work on it. A lot of bars just aren't high lift friendly.

Cheers
George

Jungle · Post by **Jungle** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:00 pm

If your going to buy a high lift jack go for the original as they have a removable handle. If your truck has bellied out in deep ruts or more likely your sill has got caught up on a stump then you can lift the front of the vehicle up until you clear the stump. Remove handle as they bend very easy when you run over them. The highlift jack will collapse and lie down as you drive over it. Usually doing no damage to jack or vehicle. If you have side bars or rock sliders you can jack off them and then the highlift jack will fall alongside the vehicle and you don't have to dig it out of the mud. yay.

High lift jacks are unstable things. Never try and lift two wheels off the ground at the same time unless you want the vehicle to shift sideways and fall off the jack. And at some time you will want to do just that. So when you build or buy your winch bar and rear bumper. Think about how your high lift jack will work on it. A lot of bars just aren't high lift friendly.

Cheers
George

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:01 pm

To properly use a high lift jack, you really need full bull bars round the vehicle to jack off.

I have jacked the back axle of the ground from the tow bar wrapping a tie down around the diff to prevent/limit travel so i didn't run out of jack and then pushed the back of the vehicle side ways of the jack out of the ruts.
Not easy, third try lucky.
I find the winch on the Safari much more effective. Provided theirs something to winch to.

I reckon Highlifts are at thier best for lifting your vehicle off rocks, so you can pack stuff under the wheels if you are wedged on top.

Everything else i prefer to be winched or towed. Much easier.

HJigh lifts are bloody good to have though. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW!!!!!

mumad · Post by **mumad** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:42 pm

I use my high lift as a winch as well, all you need is 2 snig chains, a hook and a few shackles. If you get a hold of the 4wd south or north island books by Ken Sibly it shows you how to set it up. This gives you up to 3 tons pulling power depending on the jack, mines a black rat, which is quite a bit. I pulled a safari out of a swamp backwards with it. Don't buy one of those hand winches unless they are the doubble geared ones that are 2.5 ton or greater as they don't do s*#t. Also metal on metal slips real easy so try and have guides for a high lift to sit in, i have two wee bits of angle the foot slips into, and i have found it is better to jack on the sides (Go rock sliders) than at the back as the vechile is less likely to roll or slip anywhere

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:58 am

Thanks guys!

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:47 am

Dunno where all the descriptions of how 4x4 works and why you can't use it on the road have got too.
I tried three different searches!!!!
There are a couple on here some where, i know, i wrote them!!!

Heres a Pajero one that i didn't write:
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... ++4wd+road

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:59 pm

hi lift jacks are the jizzem, ive only had mine for a few weeks and i think i have jacked everything i own off the ground with it all ready

not expensive iether, theres a guy on trade me trying to sell a 46" hi lift for $130... but if you talk nicely at your local appco shop(i know the guys really well here in hamms) you can get a brand new one for $95 :wink:

as for winches, i used one of those hand winches in my earlier days of 4x4'ing and have nothing but hate for them, sure have one in your vehicle if you want but dont expect it to get you out of the shit you just got stuck in, i have mine set up in the garage for llifting engines,,, and it does that really well... but thats about it, :wink:

.. spend the money and get a real winch for your 4x4 if you are thinking about getting into 4x4'ing . it will be (in my opinion) the best thing you could possibly buy .... asside from good tyres :wink:

as even if you have shit tyres and crap ground clearance and a shitty truck.. you can still winch yourself out of trouble

my 2c

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:03 pm

If you are going to get a hand winch get a turfer.

This is what I'm talking about:

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/gi/dynamic ... irfor1.htm

The others are just a light duty cable winch puller type thingy. Not a Turfer!!!!!

mumad · Post by **mumad** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:13 pm

You can buy a 8000 pound winch on trademe for like $550 or something, GEW brand, they would be ok if you aren't too serious, or if you know someone importing something from usa you can get a brand new warn 8ooo pounds for $800 new zealand, you just have to get it here, Look at gowarn.com

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:45 pm

or see if supalux has any 12000lb winches left

FLOYD · Post by **FLOYD** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:37 am

thanks guys - dont worry i will be looking once funds allow it!!