ATTN Christchurch Members

Shane · Post by **Shane** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:55 am

A 4wd only area is a good idear,depending on the size of area etc they arent going to build us a track like some might think just a area that might only have a few tracks?

does anyone have info on actual planed area etc?

Shane

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:19 pm

quote]
news that ECAN/POLICE bring out on average 36 cars a month that have been dummped :shock:

[/quote]

Closing the area off to law abiding people wont stop these cars being stolen or dumped...they just might not be dumped here so easily.

To punished the vast majority for hgte actions of a few is just not fair.

Maybe they should put gates across Moorhouse Ave at night because a few people speed down there at night.

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:50 pm

What ever they (ECAN or whom ever) do, the best thing we can do is adopt any allocated area and keep it clean. Show everyone some responsability from us and maybee we will get a little recognition. :wink:

Is it such a big issue if they decide to give us another area where they think we will be out of the public eye? I think not.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:06 pm

kiwipete wrote:Is it such a big issue if they decide to give us another area where they think we will be out of the public eye? I think not.

Ok....what happens if next year they decide that they want the area they are giving us now to someother interest group & the next new area for us is 20 km upstream ????

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:24 pm

tallsam66 wrote:
kiwipete wrote:Is it such a big issue if they decide to give us another area where they think we will be out of the public eye? I think not.

Ok....what happens if next year they decide that they want the area they are giving us now to someother interest group & the next new area for us is 20 km upstream ????

I think the fact is that we are being "given" an area where we can play. I do not think it is our god given right to be able to "play" where we like.
Its a gift for goodness sake.

I really do not see what the big issue is. No one has put their hand up to help those who are organising this, to suggest what we may like, have they?

If Ecan or whoever want to stop 4x4 users from abusing the stop bank areas, who are we to complain. Education of those wh do this is the real issue here. They are the ones stuffing it up for all of us.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:29 am

Its my understanding that the reason the area is gated at the jetboat area is to stop illegal activites (stolen cars etc) in the weekends.This isnt a huge problem as far as im aware & with it locked off its not going to stop 1 car being stolen.

Another more concerning thing...as far as im aware there has been NO public conconsulation of this.

Daz · Post by **Daz** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:36 pm

This is an extract from an email, from the jetboating club Im a member of....

In regards to four wheel driving, we have been in regular contact with
the Combined 4wd Clubs and 4wd South island to ensure their interests
are taken into account. We are working actively to provide areas within
the park for 4wd activities where there will be minimal impact upon the
river environment, stop banks and other user groups. This is also the
case for off-road motorcycles and horses.

Thanks again and if you have any further enquiries I would be happy to
discuss them on Ph 03 364 9862.

Regards
Greg Byrnes
Parks and Reserves Officer

Disco-Blue · Post by **Disco-Blue** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:49 pm

Ok if they do build us a play area it will have to be a good size but also would that mean we can't play in the water either??? Would be nice if they would post here exactly what is going on.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:14 pm

If people would care to read the start of the post...the problem is them locking the area off at weekends & making us drive miles further to access the waimak !!!!

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:26 am

I believe the locking of the gates is also an OSH requirement for the people extracting gravel, they have to ensure the area is left in a safe state and OSH has witnessed 4wd's and motorbikes attempting to climb the piled up gravel. Also the other damage being done to the stock banks mostly happens in the weekends.

ECan and the companies extracting the gravel are responsible, you and I may take personal responsability for what we do but those that are causing the damage would probibly take these people to court and the way the system is geared (no personal responsability) the people that roll their 4x4 or drive it into a pea gravel pit will win. Pedestrian and cycle access not on the gravel truck road will not cause problems there have been several reported near misses with the gravel trucks and cars, 4wd's and motorbikes re joining the road it is better to do this before someone is killed in an accident and the area is off limits to everyone.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:19 pm

Steve_t647 wrote:I believe the locking of the gates is also an OSH requirement for the people extracting gravel, they have to ensure the area is left in a safe state and OSH has witnessed 4wd's and motorbikes attempting to climb the piled up gravel. Also the other damage being done to the stock banks mostly happens in the weekends.

ECan and the companies extracting the gravel are responsible, you and I may take personal responsability for what we do but those that are causing the damage would probibly take these people to court and the way the system is geared (no personal responsability) the people that roll their 4x4 or drive it into a pea gravel pit will win. Pedestrian and cycle access not on the gravel truck road will not cause problems there have been several reported near misses with the gravel trucks and cars, 4wd's and motorbikes re joining the road it is better to do this before someone is killed in an accident and the area is off limits to everyone.

Where did you see this ...or is it just a guess????

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:55 pm

that was brought up as part of the council dealings with the combined club. Not sure if it was official or and excuse but the rules about recovering gravel from the river are pretty strict far stricter than a fenced quarry and that is from a good source.

But I still couldnt find out what is happening with the 4x4 park/area

4x4boy · Post by **4x4boy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:16 pm

I ran into a couple of ECAN fellas down at the Mac today and questioned them about what was planned. Apparently they are trying to develop the south side near Coutts Island for us guys and also an area on the North side down past Taylors road. This should mean designated areas for specific vehicle types. We don't have to worry about motorbikes or boyracers. Works well for me. I don't think that we should be bagging ECAN for trying to provide safer areas for us to do our sport. I let me 14yr old drive my truck while we are out there and the last thing I want is some idiot ploughing into him at top speed down the shingle roads.

I don't know about you fellas but I reckon if we want to stay on side with these guys then we should be offering to help fix some of these problems not making their jobs even harder. :idea:

4wdnuts · Post by **4wdnuts** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:35 pm

4x4boy wrote:.......I don't know about you fellas but I reckon if we want to stay on side with these guys then we should be offering to help fix some of these problems not making their jobs even harder.

agreed. im happy that we will get our own area to play. otherwise we could start having issues like in the waipara

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:32 pm

Personally the problem i have is them locking off the area in the weekends just past the jetboats.

As far as im concerned they havent given the public a fair chance to have input.

Yes..they have done limited talks with some 4wd cluds....but as a member of the general public who isnt a member of a club,ive NEVER been given an opportunity to have my say as im sure hundreds of other people who just go there occasionally havent.

The Regional Council has a legal responsibilty to consult with ALL users before making plans..then once plans are made they must then ask for more input from people effected.

As far as im aware this has NOT happened.

If they have attempted to inform me of this happening it has been in a poor way & as such isnt up to standard & should be done properly.

hulux-happy · Post by **hulux-happy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:09 pm

hi there,

its a sad day when we lose that awsome resource. i go down to the mack atleast twice a week and do anything from going down for an hour too driving the entirer track from motorway bridge to gorge bridge. i have basicly learn't to drive and use my hilux surf ln130 down at the mack. i agree a dedicated area would be nice but not being able to enter the same way i always do from the chanllenge and having to travel further is just stupid. how many accidents happen down there with the shingle trucks. there hard to miss and if hit by one then you proberly shouldn't be driving as they are professional drivers and know what they are doing as we do. as always its the few that f%k it for all. if we get a dedicated area then it should be talked about with input from the people using it. anyway its just rude that we have minimal say in the matter. it will be interesting to see what is un accessable after the changes are made as i like the weekly night run to the mack. cheers, hilux happy steve

Disco-Blue · Post by **Disco-Blue** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:58 pm

OK. A meeting involving the local MP Clayton Cosgrove is going to be organised see email below. Email the included address if you wish to attend

I have discussed this with Clayton and he is very interested in being involved in this process. He has been contacted by concerned residents. We are looking at him having a meeting with Sir Kerry Burke to discuss this topic. Are you able to advise me if you live in this electorate. It doesn't make any difference Clayton will still be involved, it just helps with our records.
I will let you know how we are progressing with arranging the meeting as soon as I hear something more.
Kind regards Linda

claytoncosgrovekaiapoi@xtra.co.nz

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:51 pm

Awesome...im not in Claytons electorate & id love to go to the meeting.

hulux-happy · Post by **hulux-happy** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:04 pm

IM IN LINWOOD AND DONT KNOW WHO IS WHERE BUT WANT TO MAKE AN APPERANCE AT THE MEETING TO SHOW SUPPORT. WE NEED TO ALEAST HAVE ARE SAY OVER THIS BIG CHANGE TO THE RIVER ACCESS FOR 4WD'S, AND AT THE LEAST FIND OUT WHAT THEY HAVE PLANED FOR 4WDING IN THE AREA :cry:

. I HAVE GONE OVER THE INFO FROM E-CAN AND DONT SEE ANYTHING MARKED FOR 4WDING SO THE QUESTION MUST BE ASKED AND FROM THE PEOPLE USING IT ASWELL.

HILUX HAPPY STEVE .

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:18 pm

Ive email clayton asking when meeting will be held....email him or you might miss out !!!!!!!

hulux-happy · Post by **hulux-happy** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:11 pm

sweet, I've e-mailed clayton and will post details of meeting when i here from him. :jump:

spankmeister · Post by **spankmeister** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:53 pm

I would like to attend this also. More to find out what the council have planned if anything.

Disco-Blue · Post by **Disco-Blue** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:53 am

Sounds good if we can get a group of us to attend and show that the 4WD community is concerned about this. Im keen if the date suits.

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:43 pm

With the local council elections coming up if anyone know's the people or group's that are 4wd friendly post them up too. Be nice to support the ones that are trying before election time :bigsmurf:

hulux-happy · Post by **hulux-happy** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:58 pm

hi there guys,
i have heard back from clayton and this is the e-mail he sent.

Hi All, Just to let you know the only meeting that is scheduled at present is with the residents of the affected area, and Ecan.

However I have spoken to David Owens at Ecan and he advises that they have been working with representative groups for the past couple of years. The 4WDÃ©rs have been represented by Brent McGuire, President of the Combined 4WD Clubs who can be contacted by BMEDR@ihug.co.nz David advises me that he is aware of the current plans and they have ongoing dialogue and he is happy with the way things are heading.

Hope this helps.
If any of you are constituents of Clayton's and would like to meet with him, please give me a call on the number below.
Kind Regards Linda

Linda Purves
Electorate Secretary
Hon Clayton Cosgrove
Member of Parliament for Waimakariri
Kaiapoi Electorate Office
156B Williams Street, Kaiapoi, North Canterbury
Phone: 03 327 7737 Fax: 03 327 4095
Email address: claytoncosgrovekaiapoi@xtra.co.nz
Web Site http://www.labour.org.nz/ClaytonCosgrove/index.html
Want to receive your own copy of the Labour Canterbury MPs eNews update?
Send a blank email to: labourcanterbury-subscribe@labour.co.nz

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:31 pm

Exactly the same email i got.

I find this is totally unacceptable!!!!

As a memebr of the general public..ive not had a chance to have any imput at any stage in this & Clayton is clearly only interested in licking the ass of the people in his electorate.

Im not sure what my next plan of attack will be at this stage.

Maybe we need to get the media involved ???

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:40 pm

tallsam66 wrote:As a memebr of the general public..ive not had a chance to have any imput at any stage in this & Clayton is clearly only interested in licking the ass of the people in his electorate.

Better let Hon Clayton Cosgrove know that if the public arent being represented properly he may become Clayton Cosgrove former Member of Parliament for Waimakariri at the next election :twisted:

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:52 pm

Ive been thinking more about.

A good way to go may be to make a cpmplaint to the Ombudsmans Office about how there has been a lack of full public consulation to the process.

ECAN must be law consult with all people effected when they do something.Clearly they havent.
Local residents are up in arms & so are many other people.If they had gone through ther correct process there wouldnt be so much shit hitting the fan.

If we want to be heard we need to throw as much shit as possible!!

petefj40 · Post by **petefj40** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:46 am

I think if we all some how group together we'll be heard louder. I'm keen to go to this meeting also.
Has anyone here brought a beach access permit to access the beach north of Spencer Park??? Last year I did. And I'll be getting another once it runs out. I think the cost was around $50 per year (approx). Someone will correct me. But access to the area is under lock and key, you get a permit sticker to go on your trucks window and a key. Personally I think it's a good idea to lock a problem area. God knows how many cars are dumped and pulled out of the area each year. And who pays for that? You and I do. And all the damage done by penisheads on the stock banks? Imagine the total cost of repair.. :shock:

If they locked the area but treated it the same as they do at Spencer Park, I'm all for it!!
That's my 5c worth.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:08 am

tallsam66 wrote:Ive been thinking more about.

A good way to go may be to make a cpmplaint to the Ombudsmans Office about how there has been a lack of full public consulation to the process.

So I assume from all your noise in this thread that you've started this process in action? No?... why not?...

Personally, I think the development plans for that area (what I've seen of them) are a bloody good idea. Drive over the bridge and look down at whats there now - its a mess... 4WDs and trailbikes (but mainly 4WDs) regularly tear that area to shreds, ripping up the grass and road alike. Looks like they will make it into a nice looking family picnic area that all can use.

Whats more, we will get dedicated 4WD areas - presumably that we, the 4WDers (probably, and this is the bugbear I have, thru the combined clubs - although this is just a guess, I have no hard evidence) will get to design and develop. It keeps us out of sight, and out of mind to the public which is a good thing I think - as Al said earlier. If it takes 10 more minutes to get there so what? Thats no big thing IMHO.

And Pete, key access might be a good idea if someone can raise that possibility with them... as long as its not a 'club only' thing.

Steve