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PR · Post by PR » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:03 pm

Some people on here think that climbing ropes would make good snatch straps :shock:

, I would like to know from the greater ORE comunity about this.

Any replys please post in this topic
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=76943#76943

H2OLOVA · Post by **H2OLOVA** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:32 pm

Climbing ropes are for climbing :roll:

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:40 pm

if no other eqqupment is avlable could be used as a tow rope , but not a snatch strap, forces involved are to high to use a non rated and appoved rope

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:40 pm

I buy rated gear because someones already done the hard work, if you don't want to buy off the shelf stuff and plan on making a heap on the cheap you could always get them stress tested..

seems much easier just to buy them

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:49 pm

im no expert but im pretty sure climbing ropes have a greater factor of saftey(FOSx10) than that of a snatch strap/rope(no FOS). im not saying that its a good idea but if you got some climbing rope and braided it to say 8000lb (same as a snatch strap) then you would have an indestructible snatch rope as it would actually be 80,000lb test....so a rope that says it is designed to carry a max load of 250kg would actually be 2500kg test...more than that of your shitty 50 dollar bushranger snatch strap....which is RATED ? pfffft ! !

does that make sence ?

it does to me :wink:

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:52 pm

Yep... sounds like flying hooks before broken strap :shock:

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:54 pm

and another thing !... if you think that climbing ropes are the cheap way of doing it, look up a price for propper climbing rope, and then read about it before you bag it ! more stretch,higher strength, better abrasion resistance,and better all round really ! :roll:

..

it has better snatch propertys than the RATED off the shelf snatch straps.

i would rather use a climbing rope !... but i cant afford it so i use a shitty bushranger one from repco for 30 buks :lol:

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:56 pm

More stretch than a snatch strap?? Shit, we need some of that!!!!!! :shock:

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:00 pm

sorry mad bad. I assumed because of the price of them that no way you would you be using new climbing ropes but using old worn ones etc or left over off cuts and making them into a rope personally i have limited knowdge of them but have been involed with a fair bit of stress testing

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:06 pm

rangimotors wrote:sorry mad bad. I assumed because of the price of them that no way you would you be using new climbing ropes but using old worn ones etc or left over off cuts and making them into a rope personally i have limited knowdge of them but have been involed with a fair bit of stress testing

ok, think about that a bit further then.....

whats the expiry date on your 4x4 snatch strap ? how many years is it certified for ? where was it tested ? to what standard ?

do you still think your snatch strap is better ?.....

(im not pickin on anyone here, just picking holes in every arguement you all have about rated snatch straps being better)

MNC · Post by **MNC** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:08 pm

Are climbing ropes stretchy? The snatch straps get their power through the stretch and recoil - ropes that dont stretch are not as suitable for snatching purposes even if they are rated to a very high weight rating.

Have seen some guys using the wrong rope to snatch boats out of the tide and it can go horribly wrong :shock:

That was how I understood it anyway :roll:

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:09 pm

Sadam_Husain wrote:Yep... sounds like flying hooks before broken strap

nope, more stretch = way less stress on components ie:humans falling :shock:

and anchor points.

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:11 pm

MNC wrote:Are climbing ropes stretchy? The snatch straps get their power through the stretch and recoil - ropes that dont stretch are not as suitable for snatching purposes even if they are rated to a very high weight rating.

Have seen some guys using the wrong rope to snatch boats out of the tide and it can go horribly wrong

That was how I understood it anyway

climbing ropes have much more stretch than the stuff we use mate :wink:

makes it much softer on the person comming to the end of the rope when falling :shock:

MNC · Post by **MNC** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:14 pm

wopass wrote:climbing ropes have much more stretch than the stuff we use mate makes it much softer on the person comming to the end of the rope when falling

Well in that case sounds like a mint option!

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:14 pm

although at work we use them for fall arrest and not climbing, they must be very similar...

10mm dia, safety factor of 12, impact force of 9.5 Kn, and a stretch (elongation) of 4.8%. All anchor points are to take 15Kn, at 3 mtr intervals.

whats the stretch of snatch straps..... 20%..... ???

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:16 pm

wopass, yes my snatch straps are rated but you are right about your other points about them, i do inspect them often and thats about the best i can do, my only input is if you make your own ropes or straps you have no idea what they are rated at until you test them. I guess like a sheep i follow the tried and tested way and follow the crowd hoping that if there is an issue it will show up by one of the many using the same gear

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:16 pm

xj wrote:although at work we use them for fall arrest and not climbing, they must be very similar...

10mm dia, safety factor of 12, impact force of 9.5 Kn, and a stretch (elongation) of 4.8%. All anchor points are to take 15Kn, at 3 mtr intervals.

whats the stretch of snatch straps..... 20%..... ???

25% or more generally.

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 pm

rangimotors wrote:wopass, yes my snatch straps are rated but you are right about your other points about them, i do inspect them often and thats about the best i can do, my only input is if you make your own ropes or straps you have no idea what they are rated at until you test them. I guess like a sheep i follow the tried and tested way and follow the crowd hoping that if there is an issue it will show up by one of the many using the same gear

again there is that word...RATED !

do you think your RATED is anywhere near as good as a test cert ?

would you hang off a 500ft cliff on a rope that was RATED ? or would you prefer a test cert ?

have you seen the loop stitching on the mass produced ones ? do you think the stitching is as strong as a properly spliced loop ? ill answer that for you. NO its not.

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:27 pm

so would the mass of 3 ton of truck tearing away at 50kmh, stretching a snatch strap 25% with a stationary 3 ton wagon on the other end compare to the falling mass of an 80kg human on a stretch of 9% fixed to one end. Generally an 80kg human generates 1500kg of mass over 2 meters (im casting my mind back a fair way here :shock:

) If a harness is employed on the end of a rope, in a fall arrest scenario, the shock absorber breaks out at an intermediary mass, therfore breaking the fall inot stages and lessening the impact on the body. What is the mass of a 3 ton truck accelerating full niose over 9 meters?????

The forces involved in one scanario cannot be easily transferred to another.

to be fair though, ive abseiled and been involved in fall arrest systems on a regular basis, but ive never climbed............. and i guess theres vast differences between the regulations of the different physics involved in each

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:28 pm

yes i agree but as i said earlier if you make your own it doesn't matter how strong or good the stuff you make it from that cert is void and it requires another test, but yes certainly if my life was in its hands the cert would be the only choice

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:37 pm

... AND... again if memory serves..... Say an abseil rope has a SWL of 150kg, and its got a safety factor of 9, its been tested to breaking of a minimum of 1350kg. A snatch strap may have a RATING of 2500kg, but with a safety factor of say, 6, its been tested to a breaking point of no less than 15,000kg

I'll stick to the $25 snatch from Steel n tube.

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:39 pm

In my mind, if the snatch strap ( i have several Cookes Snatchmaster straps) are rated as being weaker than my tow hooks (rated at less than 10,000lbs) and are a proper stretchy snatch strap designed for harnessing kinetic energy to aid in vehicle recovery, than thats all i need.

Stronger is not better, more stretch can be better in for the shorter ropes (5m ones) butthe longer 20m ropes, 25% is fine. The longer the rope the less stretch you want, try hooking 2 20m ropes together, it takes a long run up to get anything happening :shock:

Not 100% sure but my straps are rated at 4000lbs??

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:43 pm

xj wrote:... AND... again if memory serves..... Say an abseil rope has a SWL of 150kg, and its got a safety factor of 9, its been tested to breaking of a minimum of 1350kg. A snatch strap may have a RATING of 2500kg, but with a safety factor of say, 6, its been tested to a breaking point of no less than 15,000kg

I'll stick to the $25 snatch from Steel n tube.

snatch straps dont have a safty factor

im not saying that i would use them either but in my mind, if you had a bunch of climbing rope and braided say 4 of them into a 9mtr length and spliced loops in then that would make a wicked recovery rope.

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:46 pm

DieselBoy wrote:In my mind, if the snatch strap ( i have several Cookes Snatchmaster straps) are rated as being weaker than my tow hooks (rated at less than 10,000lbs) and are a proper stretchy snatch strap designed for harnessing kinetic energy to aid in vehicle recovery, than thats all i need.

Stronger is not better, more stretch can be better in for the shorter ropes (5m ones) butthe longer 20m ropes, 25% is fine. The longer the rope the less stretch you want, try hooking 2 20m ropes together, it takes a long run up to get anything happening

Not 100% sure but my straps are rated at 4000lbs??

dead right DB

And they are rated at less than 10,000lbs as so as the strap breaks before the towhook flies off instead (though thats for another thread

)

Theres probably a good reason that snatch straps are for snatching and climbing ropes are for climbing... dontchya think

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:48 pm

xj wrote:Theres probably a good reason that snatch straps are for snatching and climbing ropes are for climbing... dontchya think

yea i wouldnt put my life on the end of a snatch strap :wink:

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:53 pm

im not saying that you couldn't make a badass strap/rope out of them, but really you have no idea about its max safe working loads of breaking loads etc im sure many would beable to make something fantastic but to say 'climbing ropes are safe for snatch straps' your playing with fire while many may use judgement and experiance to make something safe others or inexperianced guys may just see that yes thay are safe and use any old ones they can get there hands on. just my 2c
If a fist time guy asked me what to use i wouldn't be telling him to make his own i'd be saying get your wallet out and buy some gear

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:54 pm

[quote="wopass] snatch straps dont have a safty factor.[/quote]

Do they not???? If something has a SWL stamped on it, or an equivalent rating, there is generally a factor of safety that is a superior number that the SWL is worked backwards from.

For example, a wooden plank over a 2.4 mtr span is "rated to" or has a SWL of 225kg, which means, it has been tested to maximum flex and destruction, and the factor worked back. Same for fibre/synthetic ropes, steel wire ropes, Acrow Props, Scizzor platforms and the list could continue........ where does a "Load Rating" of 2500kg come from then, there must be a measurement it comes from.

PR · Post by PR » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:56 pm

OK so do we all agree that when it comes to snatching 4wds use rated snatch straps and if you have climbing ropes they would be better used for towing.

Sorry to cause a shit fight but I am just trying to get people educated :roll:

xj · Post by xj » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:56 pm

wopass wrote:
xj wrote:Theres probably a good reason that snatch straps are for snatching and climbing ropes are for climbing... dontchya think

yea i wouldnt put my life on the end of a snatch strap

what retard would????

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:59 pm

I'll stick to the $25 snatch from Steel n tube.

Gee you guys are cheap skates at times and wonder why things break. A $25.00 strap can not be a proper snatch strap. More likely only a tow strap. Cookes snatchmasters cost a lot more than that.
You all say safety factors are important but then you cut corners when it comes to the costs of good quality proper equipment for the sake of a few beers.

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Do you think climbing Ropes should be used for Snatch Straps

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