bruce mason 's artical in hearld

PeterVahry · Post by **PeterVahry** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:10 pm

An interesting example. What we need to appreciate is that mud and dirt can be acceptable in many other recreations. Usually as part of a competitive situation though, such as motocross, rallies, etc. Mud is usually not a problem where it can't get into waterways and interfere with the normal biology.
On that basis, a ditch that's not part of a watercourse and not a piece of wetland that may in itself have ecological values could be viewed as being an acceptable place to ruin wheel bearings.

As a recreation we've not yet settled on what might be ok and what should be clearly avoided. At least in that situation the vehicle does not appear to be ruining a walking track or destroying a clean stream.

I'm sure that someone could imply any interpretation of that photo if they wished.

hinsonberger · Post by **hinsonberger** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:10 am

I like to think I've got a reasonable working knowledge of soils & how they perform under saturation, & the potential ecological effects it can have. You have summarised it very well Peter. I think you are right in that we haven't settled on a consensus of what is viewed as acceptable places to drive, & what are not.

I just think that we can so easily lose all credibility. We are saying to the general public "we are responsible recreation users, we avoid damage to the environment, we tread lightly, etc..." & then go & put photographs in the public domain (internet, magazines, etc) that to Joe Bloggs can only be perceived as irresponsible behaviour. The two sides to 4WDing don't meet up.

Mud is obviously a part of 4WDing, I just think we should be focusing on a more responsible side of 4WDing like photos of vehicles driving a track, vehicles parked with a nice scenery backdrop, etc.

The other option are photos that imply we get into the outdoors for the sole purpose of finding a place where we can drive irresponsibly.

Just my opinion.

tgaguy1 · Post by **tgaguy1** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:46 am

Because the public can get access to our photos; is that a good reason to stop taking photos of anything other than "nice" situations? I dont think so.
As we are members of this forum and we have a secure login system, why can we not have photos accessable for viewing once a member is logged in?

Mud is obviously a part of 4WDing, I just think we should be focusing on a more responsible side of 4WDing like photos of vehicles driving a track, vehicles parked with a nice scenery backdrop, etc

By "hiding" one side of our activities, i.e. hardcore mud plugging, are we not in effect admitting we are doing something wrong?

PeterVahry · Post by **PeterVahry** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:57 am

At the risk of appearing 'green', mud is possibly our biggest problem. It certainly can present a challenge that few can resist and as that photo illustrates, the visual effects can be dramatic too.

However, it can create a range of problems to general ecology and to other users of the routes. I personally would like to see less tracks churned up and if playing in mud is desired, then ensure there are minimal side effects and a practical way to avoid the mud if possible. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that's the issue.

As I stated earlier, there is acceptance of 'competition' and mud, which gives a practical excuse for clubs to organise events such as 'mud drags' etc under managed conditions.... and don't forget that it can make great TV material as it's easily filmed and viewers love mud too! Even 'greens' tolerate that sort of mud, it's a primeval thing.

hinsonberger · Post by **hinsonberger** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:44 pm

I didn't mean to imply that we should be trying to hide anything, just that we should be focusing on more responsible images rather than the ones showing great quantities of mud & destruction. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, "focus on the positive". I would also extend this to focusing on more responsible (& positive) 4WDing, not just images.

I go 4WDing because I enjoy getting outdoors & I enjoy the journey venturing through areas not accessible by road going vehicles. I also enjoy the challenges along the way, but they are not the sole purpose. I think if someones sole purpose is getting out to find hard obstacles to put their 4WD into, then organised competition is where they should be.

I definitely think there is an element of people taking the extreme form of 4WDing out of the organised events & into the general outdoor areas. I believe this to be damaging, both to the environment & to the future of being able to 4WD on public land.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:45 pm

I'll comment as it was taken on my trip, the land is PRIVATE land, as for MUD that hole mostly water, it was managed as we kept off the area's we were supposed to and only "played" in the areas that were designated.

Red90 · Post by **Red90** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:25 am

I see article in "Hawkes Bay Today" thursday.

madaz068 · Post by **madaz068** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:56 am

Do you have a copy you can scan and show us?

Red90 · Post by **Red90** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:14 am

sorry it vanished into a great black hole at work :shock:

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:34 am

hinsonberger wrote:I didn't mean to imply that we should be trying to hide anything, just that we should be focusing on more responsible images rather than the ones showing great quantities of mud & destruction. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, "focus on the positive". I would also extend this to focusing on more responsible (& positive) 4WDing, not just images.

I go 4WDing because I enjoy getting outdoors & I enjoy the journey venturing through areas not accessible by road going vehicles. I also enjoy the challenges along the way, but they are not the sole purpose. I think if someones sole purpose is getting out to find hard obstacles to put their 4WD into, then organised competition is where they should be.

I definitely think there is an element of people taking the extreme form of 4WDing out of the organised events & into the general outdoor areas. I believe this to be damaging, both to the environment & to the future of being able to 4WD on public land.

Another spin is that to a degree the problem is not ours.

Its a perception issue.

We are all responsible 4wheelers and we know that what we do is fine, for example the pic on the front page.

Its unfortunate that the perception of picture of a 4 wheel drive throwing mud in the air or driving a rutted cut up wet track is that it is bad.

Its the way people are trying to be programmed to percieve these images, as we all know that we are not causing environmental harm.

For example, the permitted activity rule for earth works in the waikato region permits earthworks of any scale. Provided:

The concentration of suspended solids in any non-point discharges from roading, tracking and vegetation clearance activities shall meet the following standards;
*The activity or discharge shall not result in any of the following receiving water standards being breached:

*in Waikato Region Surface class waters - 100 grams per cubic metre suspended solids concentration

*in Indigenous Fisheries and Fish Habitat class waters - 80 grams per cubic metre suspended solids concentration

*in Trout Fisheries and Trout Spawning Habitat class waters - 25 grams per cubic metre suspended solids concentration

*in Contact Recreation class waters - black disc horizontal visibility greater than 1.6 metres

*in Natural State class waters - the activity or discharge shall not increase the concentration of suspended solids in the receiving water by more than 10 percent

My point is that the impact our recreation has on the environment is far less than what is permitted in the Waikato Regional Plan.

More indepth reading on the conditions of the permitted activity rule:
http://www.ew.govt.nz/policyandplans/wr ... p5.1.5.htm

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:41 am

you make good points about perception there DB.

everytime I go to the bookshop and see all the 4x4 mags with glossy covers and pages full of trucks up to their eyeballs in mud I'm not aware of a real anti public perception about the images? The same goes for the moto-x stuff?

disclaimer: all the usual blah blah protect my backside stuff

Cutbak · Post by **Cutbak** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:34 pm

Just saw that guy's name again! He had an article (the same one???)published just recently in HB Today. You guys saying he's a PANZY? Certainly, 'arsehole' fits, as well.

Being a hunter / shooter / etc. I am well practiced at being pissed off by this type of person.

Fortunately for us, I actually believe there's a bit of a ground-swell of opinion that these self-propelled unguided missiles should go and live just outside the Green Zone in Baghdad. That's because most people don't like whingeing little pricks filling up their newspapers with rubbish.

No, from what I hear and see -- including the reaction I often get when my poor old truck is parked at the supermarket or wherever -- more and more people generally, actually think the 4wd thing is sweet.

And don't underestimate TV's contribution to this (notwithstanding the ballsup with the bloody rugby world cup being on at the moment)

Go the All Blacks!

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:14 pm

Do you have a copy of the article and was there a pic with it?

Red90 · Post by **Red90** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:27 pm

from memory there was a pic but no mud. Looked like it was from a shiny trip down in Otago, a couple of vehicles on a track and great scenery.

skid · Post by **skid** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:42 pm

Jerry wrote:Do you have a copy of the article and was there a pic with it?

I have 2 copies of the article. one will be taken to our next club meeting and the other I've misplaced for the time being.
When I find it, I'll read it properly and then scan it for ya.

I was told it was the same as the herald article, so I'll read them both to confirm.

Cutbak · Post by **Cutbak** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:30 pm

Jerry wrote:Do you have a copy of the article and was there a pic with it?

Sorry mate, binned it...

brianr70 · Post by **brianr70** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:03 pm

Latest NZ 4WD mag has an editoral abount this situation, which makes good reading.