GPS Tracks

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:14 am

Hey,

Can we have a place to post GPS track /route files people have recorded on a GPS device.

I am toying with the idea of setting up a database with GPS tracks and the likes if there is enough response / tracks available. Would be a map which has clickable areas / provinces that then pulls up a list of tracks that have been uploaded by users in that region.

Would be great for the casual user to be able to log on and find a local track that somebody else has done and then go and follow there route via the GPS.

If a track was over private land or land that needed permission to access it then we would have to put a note next to the track.

Just a thought but I think it would be a kick ass feature for the site.

Azza · Post by **Azza** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:25 am

I believe Mike is currently working on this and hopefully will be included in the new version of Offroad Express

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7120

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:28 am

LOL, I've just posted a thread in a similar vein.
A topic like this would be great, kind of like an on-line version of Ken Siblys 4wd books

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:31 am

yea i just hired the ken sibly books from the library with the idea of tracing a few tracks out on mapsource and loading up to my personal gps database.. i had a crack with a couple of tracks but i found it to be really time consuming and fiddly but I am no map expert by any means.

Would be miles more accurate and feasible (and wouldn't infringe copywrite) if people could load tracks they actually did then we could share them among the masses

Azza · Post by **Azza** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:37 pm

Swaney wrote:Would be miles more accurate and feasible (and wouldn't infringe copywrite) if people could load tracks they actually did then we could share them among the masses

The technology exists and is relatively easy to implement (from a webdesign point of view) where a page contains a browsable google map with gps locations and points of interest...

A user could be prompted to upload gps info, photos, trail descriptions and any number of other info into a database that would then be used to generate an online version of what Ken Sibly has done in his book.

Of course if all the data is already in the database, after viewing a paticular trail, it would be nice and easy to be able to download the gps info so it could be then loaded on to users personal gps units... no more excuses for getting lost :wink:

Lets see what Mike comes up with :wink:

Post by **mike** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:42 pm

Azza wrote:
Swaney wrote:Would be miles more accurate and feasible (and wouldn't infringe copywrite) if people could load tracks they actually did then we could share them among the masses

The technology exists and is relatively easy to implement (from a webdesign point of view) where a page contains a browsable google map with gps locations and points of interest...

A user could be prompted to upload gps info, photos, trail descriptions and any number of other info into a database that would then be used to generate an online version of what Ken Sibly has done in his book.

Of course if all the data is already in the database, after viewing a paticular trail, it would be nice and easy to be able to download the gps info so it could be then loaded on to users personal gps units... no more excuses for getting lost

Lets see what Mike comes up with

Nothing like that at all, All i said was that the new gallery will have the ability to associate gps co-ordinates with photos :wink:

What you guys are proposing is something way outta my league
:wink:

Mike

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:37 pm

Sweet it should be simple enough to do. All we need is support.

If you have a GPS and drive a known trail or reasonably common 4x4 area then turn your GPS log on whilst you drive it and save the track log record.

Once your home simply upload / email the gpx file with a brief description of track / course to a server so it can be added in a online database.

With enough support id say the list would grow quite nicely.

I just think that it would be nice to be able to click on the area of a map you plan on going and having a list of courses that people have done in the past in that area - and i havent seen any other 4x4 website host that kinda information.

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:43 pm

Swaney wrote:Sweet it should be simple enough to do. All we need is support.

If you have a GPS and drive a known trail or reasonably common 4x4 area then turn your GPS log on whilst you drive it and save the track log record.

Once your home simply upload / email the gpx file with a brief description of track / course to a server so it can be added in a online database.

With enough support id say the list would grow quite nicely.

I just think that it would be nice to be able to click on the area of a map you plan on going and having a list of courses that people have done in the past in that area - and i havent seen any other 4x4 website host that kinda information.

One of our GPS Gurus on ORE may be able to help set up something that overlays a map to show where the tracks are??
Would be a great way for everyone to locate new tracks

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:22 pm

yeah once you have the gps file it should be easy enough to overlay the track on google earth or mapsource or what ever program tickles your fancy.

id guess google earth is the logical choice as it looks nice and spiffy and is easy to use. To convert a gpx (exchange gps format) file to kmz (google earth format) you can use the following online tool (which which then show the track in google earth)

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/map?form=googleearth

just need gpx or kmz files of tracks now =)

Post by **Mark** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:26 pm

Google Earth can open GPX files directly. You don't need to convert them first. And then you can save them as KML/KMZ files from GE if you wish.

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:38 pm

We need a GPS section on here

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:50 pm

The only "problem" I have found with Google Earth is the offset. You load you tracks and they don't line up with the roads in the Google Earth images. Something to do with the angles of the camera in relation to the ground and the way they stitch all the image together.
There are some roads which don't even line up in Google Earth.
Picture below is "Hill Road" going into Belmont Regional Park near Lower Hutt.

Azza · Post by **Azza** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:05 pm

A gpx file is basicly a list of gps points with descriptions in a xml format, this data can easily be extrapilated and imported directly into an embedded google map on a webpage...

The user wouldn't be required to download the file to view on a map, no need for google earth (unless you really wanted to), everything would all be nicely contained within the webpage :lol:

Az

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:48 pm

Azza wrote:A gpx file is basicly a list of gps points with descriptions in a xml format, this data can easily be extrapilated and imported directly into an embedded google map on a webpage...
Az

...you mean convert the latitude and longitude to simple "x" and "y" coordinates and put these onto another layer on the webpage?
Seems fairly simple at one zoom level. It would be an easy calculation to convert degrees and minutes to pixels on screen.
But how would you cope with different zoom levels? You would need to recalculate all the time or not?
I'd be keen to explore this a little more.

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:17 pm

Simple thing in the meantime is for a topic where one can advertise tracks/trips one has GPS'd and anyone else wanting a copy of the Data simply PM's the recipient.

Easy peasy, but for me its a case of buyer beware (lol) as mine are all NZMapped format (txt) and incompatible with any other software till I upgrage software packges and convert my Data.

Post by **Mark** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:39 pm

Cloggy_NZ wrote:
Azza wrote:A gpx file is basicly a list of gps points with descriptions in a xml format, this data can easily be extrapilated and imported directly into an embedded google map on a webpage...
Az

...you mean convert the latitude and longitude to simple "x" and "y" coordinates and put these onto another layer on the webpage?
Seems fairly simple at one zoom level. It would be an easy calculation to convert degrees and minutes to pixels on screen.
But how would you cope with different zoom levels? You would need to recalculate all the time or not?
I'd be keen to explore this a little more.

The easiest way to do this would be to convert your GPX file into a KML file using either Google Earth, GPSTrackMaker, gpsbable, etc and then overlay that onto a Google Map using the Google Maps API.

This involves creating a webpage that has a Google Map embedded in it and then you can specify a path to a KML file that contains all the points and paths and load that as an overlay. The javascript of the API calls looks like this:

...
var geoXml = new GGeoXml("http://www.presling.com/files/kml/terewhiti-20061126.kml");
map.addOverlay(geoXml);
...

Which gives you something like this:
http://www.presling.com/googlemapkmlexample

But this is only a small part of it. The tricky part is putting together a system that allows people to upload their KML/GPX files, categorise them, create a "track" record in a database that records the details of the track/road/etc, how that information is browsed by the users, access control, etc, etc, etc. We would be talking about a lot of man power. I have been planning a system like this for a year or so now, but the more I think/design it the bigger it becomes and harder it is to get started on it.

Post by **Mark** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:05 pm

Mark wrote:http://www.presling.com/googlemapkmlexample

God only knows why that doesn't work properly in Internet Exploiter. If you've got a real browser use that (Firefox) :wink:

If you resize your browser window in IE it comes right.

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:50 am

Could we just have it simple? (i like simple things)

All I was thinking was a basic map of NZ that is split up to provinces you click that area / province and it then brings up a tabled list of the .gpx files (no google earth).

I think the real key to it is getting everyone to send in the tracks and then once we have a decent base of maps we can look at making it work with google maps.

It would be a kick ass feature to have on the site.

scratcher · Post by **scratcher** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:23 am

I know its nice to share track info,but last time I shared my favorite camp site I turned up to hell of a mess and a sign saying no more camping.This is a public forum, beware of dickheads looking for any place to go.

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:17 am

scratcher wrote:I know its nice to share track info,but last time I shared my favorite camp site I turned up to hell of a mess and a sign saying no more camping.This is a public forum, beware of dickheads looking for any place to go.

Thats my concern too, some of the tracks list above are grade 5. Worst Case would be if unprepared Job Public goes up there and gets stuck, injured etc would we be in the firing line?

TJ · Post by TJ » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:23 am

Can this feature be restricted to paying members only? That way distribution would be off limits for Joe Public.

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:44 am

TJ wrote:Can this feature be restricted to paying members only? That way distribution would be off limits for Joe Public.

thats prolly a good idea... looks like i might need to get my wallet out!

.. im sure it would be a good way to increase the ORE paid membership

and id hope that when you upload a track you would give a brief description like "Grade 4 - this track is not for the faint hearted - this is serious 4x4'ing and not to be tackled with out a minimum of 3 trucks and CB's etc etc etc etc" or "Grade 1 easy farm road / shingle road - made for taking your old lady out on sunday drive with a cup of tea but with splendid views of the countryside" etc etc etc

I dunno if you can go to the library and find out the information (ie. Ken Sibly) then how is it different to logging online and hunting for the information?

TJ · Post by TJ » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:50 am

Swaney wrote:I dunno if you can go to the library and find out the information (ie. Ken Sibly) then how is it different to logging online and hunting for the information?

How many people did you see at the library when you were at the library last time? Now think how many people use computers and online forums.

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:55 am

TJ wrote:
Swaney wrote:I dunno if you can go to the library and find out the information (ie. Ken Sibly) then how is it different to logging online and hunting for the information?

How many people did you see at the library when you were at the library last time? Now think how many people use computers and online forums.

Or search in google...

Swaney · Post by **Swaney** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:00 am

TJ wrote:
Swaney wrote:I dunno if you can go to the library and find out the information (ie. Ken Sibly) then how is it different to logging online and hunting for the information?

How many people did you see at the library when you were at the library last time? Now think how many people use computers and online forums.

True I understand where you are coming from as the only reason I went to the library was to get that information after I couldnt find it online. BUT its in the library so it is public knowledge.

If there are areas that people dont want to share then simply do not post the tracks of that area.

Even if we only have the well known tracks loaded up for download that is still better than any other site I have seen.

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:42 pm

Yeah, I agree, keep it to paying members. I think Ken's books eneded up being the worst thing for 4wdriving ( nothing against Ken). For example, a few years back ( you will remember Bill) we came accross two trucks at the serpentine church. It was the wettest year on record and hard slogging through the mud. We were having difficulty on MT's. They were on road tyres, had never done any true 4wheeling before. We offered for them to follow us out but they got a little shitty and headed off. We came accross them a litte while latter in some serious trouble. They were guiding themselves with Ken's book. They were going off track and making more damage.
Al

Azza · Post by **Azza** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:42 am

So what terminology would be used when describing uploaded gps info....

would you call them;

Routes?
Tracks?
Trails?

Here on ORE they seem to be loosly refered to 'Trails'.. but IMHO this seems very American, personaly I prefer the kiwi terminology 'Routes'...

What does everyone else think?

(this is on-topic, honest! :wink:

)

Azza · Post by **Azza** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:57 am

Does anyone know how many different file formats exist when downloading or uploading gps data from their units? which are the most common?

For example, If a gpx file is only used, will this exclude, say all garmin gps units, or perhaps people that have navman units will suffer instead... i'm not a gps dude... i'm a computer dude :wink:

I am trying to workout just how many different file formats will have to be catered for, as each file format will have to be validated differently when uploaded by the user, and of course when the trip data is downloaded, it would be nice if it's compatible with all/most gps units that members use in NZ

TJ · Post by TJ » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:02 pm

Well my GPS calls them tracks, so I favour tracks (eg Old Wires track - Maratoto).

To me routes are on road.

Dace · Post by **Dace** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:30 pm

I agree with TJ, 4x4 tracks are tracks and routes is how ya get to track

and i agree, payed members only