Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Dace · Post by **Dace** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:25 pm

could someone please fill me in on this "common" susp mod?

is this a valid mod for a LN106 hilux?

how hard?

pros/cons?

hosehustler · Post by **hosehustler** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:34 pm

Heaps of info on this site about doing it, do a search using the "search" function below the site disclaimer

Look up now and you'll see it :lol:

here's a couple of links tho :mrgreen:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... pic&t=1453

And another being done at the mo, and he's making a fine job too :!:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... pic&t=8088

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:02 pm

How hard? If you can weld and fabricate then its not too bad. If you can't and don't mind spending money on awesome bang-for-buck mods then its really easy. If you're tight as a fish and can't mod stuff to save yourself then stick with what you've got

Pro's: Awesome flex, good lift, more comfortable ride. Cons: hmmm... can't think of any other than cost maybe if you need to pay to have it done.

Steve

Dace · Post by **Dace** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:07 pm

cheers guys, i am not a fabricator but can weld and have access to a decent level of equipment such as lathes, drill mill and decent Mig

from what i gather this is how it seems to work

Front suspension
take the rear springs to the front, cut the rearward mount off and farbicate one and weld x mm's further back and y mm's lower
what is x and y, not sure yet :oops:

do ya need to change the front shackle cause i have replaced it already with a greasable item?

am i right in ya have to drill a new locating hole in the transferred spring?

Will the standard u bolts, plate work on the front?

Rear suspension
Cut off the front mount and fabricate one 5mm wider and mount, again x further forward and y lower, fabricate a new rear shackle allowing the 5mm wider springs. could this be made longer than std?

I gather that if ya need to fabricate a new u-bolt plate to allow for the wider springs, also that ya need to drill a new locating hole in the coon spring, is there a std dimension for this new hole

add longer travel shock, paint all the fabricated parts in a nice satin black, chuck in some dirt and the WOF guy never needs to know :twisted:

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:17 pm

DBWRacing wrote:cheers guys, i am not a fabricator but can weld and have access to a decent level of equipment such as lathes, drill mill and decent Mig

from what i gather this is how it seems to work

Front suspension
take the rear springs to the front, cut the rearward mount off and farbicate one and weld x mm's further back and y mm's lower
what is x and y, not sure yet

do ya need to change the front shackle cause i have replaced it already with a greasable item?

am i right in ya have to drill a new locating hole in the transferred spring?

Will the standard u bolts, plate work on the front?

Hmmm... I'd recommend you went crossover steer with this - but you can get away with the factory single-side steering. the rears in the front move the axle forward by 50mm, so the torque rod needs relocating or shortening (or removing with the crossover steer setup). Also with this the steering draglink needs shortening - which means probably doing a ball-joint mod on it.

Also you will need longer shocks.

As for the rear spring mounts you can't cut them off, they are tubes through the chassis - just use extended front shackles.

Yes, the standard u-bolts etc will work fine.

DBWRacing wrote:Rear suspension
Cut off the front mount and fabricate one 5mm wider and mount, again x further forward and y lower, fabricate a new rear shackle allowing the 5mm wider springs. could this be made longer than std?

I gather that if ya need to fabricate a new u-bolt plate to allow for the wider springs, also that ya need to drill a new locating hole in the coon spring, is there a std dimension for this new hole

add longer travel shock, paint all the fabricated parts in a nice satin black, chuck in some dirt and the WOF guy never needs to know

The front mount for the coons should be to suit the bush/sleeve - don't cut the old mount off unless you want to - it won't be in the way. Rear shackle needs to be 50mm longer, and rear mount needs to be at least 50mm lowered away from the chassis rail. U-bolt flip is normal with this swap so make a pair of plates to suit and use 75mm round u-bolts. No std dimension for the new hole, measure it to suit. shock mounts to suit whatever shocks you use. top shock mount on the round crossmember and bottom on the front of the axle tube.

Hope that helps...

Steve

Goose · Post by **Goose** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:30 pm

Steve!! Just wondering, what effect does removing the torque rod have? I ask as H2O is making one for his rear, due to spring bending.... is this not so much a problem on lux's?

cheers :wink:

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:33 pm

rears move the diff forward so you have to go crossover steering conversion. you have to go longer shakles to get the shakle angle right (the std ones are flat with rears up front)

you dont need the falcons in the back a 2" lift and longer shakel to suit but the long falcons flex well

Also you need to pull the rear pack down remove the 2 overload springs and add a couple of springs from the front pack if you have a bullbar or winch or they go flat and invert quickly.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:34 pm

Goose wrote:Steve!! Just wondering, what effect does removing the torque rod have? I ask as H2O is making one for his rear, due to spring bending.... is this not so much a problem on lux's?

cheers

They perform different actions. What H2O is making is an anti-wrap bar to stop the rear springs twisting up under acceleration. The torque rod in the front of a Hilux is to control twisting of the springs under braking - mainly as that twisting effect changes the steering arms position in relation to the steering box (single side steering) - ie: you end up swerving off the road to the left under heavy braking... not a good look.

Steve_t647 wrote:rears move the diff forward so you have to go crossover steering conversion. you have to go longer shakles to get the shakle angle right (the std ones are flat with rears up front)

Not strictly true, you can modify the standard steering to work... but the further forward the axle goes to less feel you get in the steering so crossover is a good idea.

Steve_t647 wrote:you dont need the falcons in the back a 2" lift and longer shakel to suit but the long falcons flex well

Actually, once you've had falcons you will find it hard to drive a Hilux without em... the difference is night and day...

Steve

Goose · Post by **Goose** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:20 am

SupraLux wrote:They perform different actions.The torque rod in the front of a Hilux is to control twisting of the springs under braking - mainly as that twisting effect changes the steering arms position in relation to the steering box (single side steering) - ie: you end up swerving off the road to the left under heavy braking... not a good look.

Steve

So do I need one? I plan to do crossover steering.......

Cheers Stevo!! You da man

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:17 am

Goose as I understand it (And correct me again if I am wrong Steve)

If you go crossover steering then the torque rod in the front of a hilux is pretty much redundant and it limits flex on the drivers side quite badly (in standard form), but if you find your spring pack is flexy and do not want to risk kinking it (like the Mu has done to Steve) then having one will help stop that.

The torque rod needs to have about the same geometry as the spring goes through I.E. a similar length arm to leaf spring, but in looking at mine I think if I need one I would make it slightly longer than standard and more central to the diff to allow more downward movement for both sides.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:28 pm

Its not required with crossover - its only there to stop brake-steer in the front. I'm not aware of any hilux front setup that needs a torque rod setup, although mine could possibly have benefitted from one in the MU to try and stop climbing bounce...

With the falcon rear a torque rod would be a help, as those springs are looong and get lots of axle-wrap especially with a supra in front of them...

Steve

Cutbak · Post by **Cutbak** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:56 pm

Hmmm. Ok, I'm interested in this. Between me and a couple of mates there might be an application here that needs attending too... :bom:

Are you guys referring to Falcon ute springs, or s/wagon etc. Are these the longest leaves in captivity or just fairly long but easy to get hold of..?

Has anyone tried them in a Cruiser...? (Given the obvious considerations for weight etc.)

Goose · Post by **Goose** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:20 pm

Yup, falcon ute or panelvan springs as I understand, not sure if it's wagon springs as well, but what you need is the 6 leaf packs, not the 4 leaf packs. The 4 leaf is a bit soft from what most have found, you get lots of axle wrap :shock:

Then rears in the front, and hey presto!! Flexo-majoro!!

Cutbak · Post by **Cutbak** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:38 pm

That's bloody mighty thanx. ...Coz I've noticed one or two old XDs lying around the local rubbish dumps -- arr, I mean 'river beds' -- so I might have ta check them out a bit closer.

abbo · Post by **abbo** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:37 pm

would this work on a solid front beam hilux :?:

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:56 pm

This is for that model. unless you mean falcon springs in the front - that would be way too soft I think, truck would become a wallowy pig...

Rears in the front and falcons in the back - its a time tested and trusted formula and it works - just look at some of the videos of trucks set up like that working offroad.

Steve

Dace · Post by **Dace** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:39 pm

Welcome people to an old thread bought back to life.

I have a few questions regarding this, my mods have evolved from this initial thread.

I am now doing a rear to front conversion, with 8' longer travel shocks, had intended to leave the rear std to keep it stable on road, as it will be certed and street driven.

Has anyone ever used rear to front, falcon rears on the road?

How bad is this combo on the road? I am not worried if it requires a bit more concentration to drive at 100k but don't want it outright dangerious and unpredictable.

cheers
Dace

and ps, anyone have some falcon rears lying around?!?

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 pm

I have this set up and still have the old push pull steering, it is nicer on road than my mates standard hilux. I get a bit of bump steer but that isn't the springs. its the shit steering set up. :-)

With X over steering it would be sweet

muddyhilux · Post by **muddyhilux** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:04 pm

brother n law has had falcons in the rear for over a year,havent changed the pack yet which we plan to do,is a lil soft but nothing to worry about,like i say this time with new mods were going to add a leaf

hosehustler · Post by **hosehustler** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:37 pm

I had that combo on the road and worked pretty well, rear end did squat on the road but was more than driveable and was certed .
I'm thinking of doing it all again myself, bought a single cab exo'd lux off Rob-Mu....was going to wreck it and keep the cab/plates but a retro-crawler may be the next project

Dace · Post by **Dace** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:25 am

sounds like its a goer then!!!

I got my new front shocks yesterday, are a full 200mm longer than my existing maxitrac shock (which is already longer than std)

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:41 am

You don't need to go overboard on the shocks for this mod.... up front a 10" shock is all you need you wont get more than that out of the springs out back best I've had is 13" of shock travel, but this had a very laid back shackle angle (not safe for road) for most Coon conversions I recomend 12" shocks and set your shackle angle at about 50deg

As for the road manors had some that felt like you were grinding door handles on round abouts and others that handle very well, this depends on the springs and how much abuse they had in the old coon ute or station wagon, the sedan springs are shorter and softer (less travel) currently trialing a mixed pack of Ute and sedan springs on mates truck.... after he managed to brake a top leaf :lol:

(since added a track bar)

Cheers Reece

pruggerdore · Post by **pruggerdore** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:23 am

De-Ranged wrote:You don't need to go overboard on the shocks for this mod.... up front a 10" shock is all you need you wont get more than that out of the springs out back best I've had is 13" of shock travel, but this had a very laid back shackle angle (not safe for road) for most Coon conversions I recomend 12" shocks and set your shackle angle at about 50deg

As for the road manors had some that felt like you were grinding door handles on round abouts and others that handle very well, this depends on the springs and how much abuse they had in the old coon ute or station wagon, the sedan springs are shorter and softer (less travel) currently trialing a mixed pack of Ute and sedan springs on mates truck.... after he managed to brake a top leaf (since added a track bar)

Cheers Reece

I'm getting more than 10 inches out off front end. well I would if the shocks were not restricting it.

GotFlex · Post by **GotFlex** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:13 am

with my rears up front i left my load leafs in so it handle mint on road and when it flexs the spring pack drop out heaps. and my pack still inverts with load leafs

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:53 pm

pruggerdore wrote:I'm getting more than 10 inches out off front end. well I would if the shocks were not restricting it.

Big talk for someone who wont prove it :wink:

friday drinks tomorrow night you know your going to have to front up.... and no dribble about on the trail it gets more :twisted:

J_Dub · Post by **J_Dub** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:05 pm

what if new after market coons were fitted??
still got the length for flex yet shouldnt they hold up well on the road?

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:56 pm

never thought of new springs I'm too tight .... but I'd say you'd get just that

pruggerdore · Post by **pruggerdore** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:27 pm

De-Ranged wrote:
pruggerdore wrote:I'm getting more than 10 inches out off front end. well I would if the shocks were not restricting it.

Big talk for someone who wont prove it
friday drinks tomorrow night you know your going to have to front up.... and no dribble about on the trail it gets more

prove what?? who gives a toss? so its only got 9 then if you like. On the trail is where it counts isnt it. not that you would know anything about that. any body else here do there 4wding from a keyboard ??? oooh now Im in trouble

turoa · Post by **turoa** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:45 pm

pruggerdore wrote:
De-Ranged wrote:
pruggerdore wrote:I'm getting more than 10 inches out off front end. well I would if the shocks were not restricting it.

Big talk for someone who wont prove it
friday drinks tomorrow night you know your going to have to front up.... and no dribble about on the trail it gets more

prove what?? who gives a toss? so its only got 9 then if you like. On the trail is where it counts isnt it. not that you would know anything about that. any body else here do there 4wding from a keyboard ??? oooh now Im in trouble

LMAO needs a like function

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:59 am

nice dig.... but I'm still waiting for proof that your truck is better than all the others :wink:

Oh and cammera please dude :wink:

Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????

Re: Hilux rears to fronts and falcon rears????