Hilux Sag

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:33 pm

I have a LN 106 2.8D Hilux Nov 94 Long Wheel Base (2.2m Wellside tray).
Leaf springs all round. New Old Man Emu springs on front and recond/reset heavy duty factory springs in the rear. My problem is the vehicle still sags front right. All springs have been checked for equality of set. The OME springs are on the correct sides.
There has been no noticable improvement in the sag when replacing/restting the springs.
The shocks are old... my next project. There is one non matching shock rear left.

Would the shocks be causing my sag problem front right or it the problem larger than this?

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:55 pm

Could be the diff locator (sorry clutching at straws) pulling on the drivers side spring. If it is, get an adjustable one (about 120 bucks), but like I said its just a guess.

Heath

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:10 pm

just a sugestion but,,,

when you jump in the truck does it sag worse... :shock:

....

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:14 pm

Whatare you saying?

Are you bringing Polarice's stature into the equation?

(Skating on "thin Ice' there)

Sorry couldnt help it. :lol:

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:19 pm

m8.i reckon it's the rear end and/or shocks.my 5cents worth anyways.....if your front set is new and worn in,look to to the back set for sure.reset leafs-i was going that way but went for new EFS leafs/shocks all round,awesome gear.my hack sagged big time to the left giving me about 25mm untill hitting the bump stop thingy me whats a call it.now it's well off about 100-150mm and getting a lot better better flex,50mm leaf lift with 31" tyres and have rubber rubbing hard on the front guards(it's not a wellside)if i park the right rear wheel on a small rise,say 100mm,the front left looks like its sagging-the rear leafs look hard out heavy duty suckers but flex quite well.get your shocks sorted when suss it out.

cheers guppy

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:22 pm

so yes i reckon the rear shocks are the problem.

cheers again....guppy

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:08 pm

Thanks for the replies.
I AM a big guy. 130kg. However I have no noticable extra sag when I climb in. But it's a good laugh!
There are new OME springs front and re set Toyota leaves (9) in the rear. checked by Universal Springs Pukekohe.
I'll check the diff thing. But looks like I'm up for new shocks all round.
Worst case is will get rid of the OME springs. not overly impressed with them.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:31 am

Its an obvious one, but have you got the drivers and passengers front springs in the right way? The drivers side spring is a flater and slightly stiffer set the the passenger one as the drivers side spring perch is higher up than the passenger side.

Also, as mentioned, I would suspect the rears.

OME springs have a bit of a reputation for being overly soft and sagging very quickly in Hilux fronts. I've had some horror problems with Ironman too but have found the MaxiTrac gear I sell now to be very reliable and good quality.

Just another thought, but I have seen some drivers side front packs pulled down so tight with the U-bolts it pulled the spring pack over backwards on the perch. Welding a piece of 10mm x 60mm plate onto the perch to raise, flatten and strengthen the perch can help there and also help with the sag you get from having the fuel tank and driver on the same side.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Steve
q

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:03 pm

On my import hilux were i used to work, the chassis rail on the drivers side bent up from abuse and made the vehicle sit crooked.
That was running OME leaves.

Doubtfull, but have a look/measure any how.

Would not make the spring appear saggy though as you mentioned earlier.

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:45 pm

The OME springs are the right way round. Took great care about that one.
This particular Hilux was owned by the maintenance crew at the Thames Toyota plant for most of its life. 270000km when I got it. I believe that alt ough drven hard on road it was lucky to have seen gravel.
The work I have done on it since then backs that up.
However, i have exact measurements for the hilux and will check chassis.
I'll have to wait until after the weekend as there is lots a good snow to be had at Whakapapa!

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:51 pm

are you heading to the snow for the weekend mate :shock:

... probably be shut by the looks of the weather forcast.... but that means more lush powder and better coverage.

if you need a spare person to come allong and help out with $$gas$$ sing out, ill see if im allowed to get out

... think my board still has a layer of wax on it :roll:

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:36 am

Think your right about the weather.
I have to train regardless.... exams coming up for skiing.

But you idea is good.

I grew up in the Taupo/National Park area so I know of some nice 4x4 spots.... Maybe worth a mission.
Beers and Cheers!

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:24 am

Sounds like another trip in the making!!!!!

Great stuff, get on to man!!!!

Bubba · Post by **Bubba** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:37 pm

Although I can give no help what so ever when it comes to mechnicanical stuff, the only advise I have is when I had a simular problem.

My ex-wife was sagging in the front end (and a bit at the back as well) so I traded her in although it may have been cheaper to put in $40K replacement parts although the main processing unit was stuffed.

Get a brand new Asian Import, then trade that in, in a couple of years

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:54 pm

Good advice!
But what place will accept trade ins that are saggy!
:roll:

Won't be on the hill. But they got lots of snow.
If you need wax bring it into the shop in Papatoe2.
Ski Trading Post.
Will be under my ute this weekend.

Bubba · Post by **Bubba** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:06 pm

Oasis Pub, scubbers ball :salut: (do they still have them or have they gone PC?)

Wait, are we still taking about trading in ex wifes or are we back to the subject on hand :scratch:

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:10 pm

Got the Answer To the Sagging

So with all tires at the same pressure I firstly measured From the level floor to a point on the arches.
Both points being vertically above and below the center of the hub.

First test
Left 94.8cm 94.9cm
Front Rear
Right 96.4cm 96.9cm

I then bounced it around and rocked it to "Feel" centred.

Second test
Right 94.7cm 94.8cm
Front Rear
Left 96.4cm 97.0cm

I removed the Front Left Shock and the Right Rear Shock.
Bounced it around again and rocked it to "Feel" centred.

Third test
Right 95.0cm 94.8cm
Front Rear
Left 96.4cm 97.0cm

I the removed the other shocks and re-centred.

Fourth test
Right 95.4cm 95.5cm
Front Rear
Left 96.0cm 96.4cm

So then I had a brain wave.
I had just filled the gas tank with 65L of Diesel That must have an effect surely??

After Loading 2x22L Tanks and puting them on the Left side of my try and putting both sets of 4x4 chains on the left I got this result.

Fifth test
Right 95.6cm 95.7cm
Front Rear
Left 95.5cm 96.3cm

To then prove a theory, I then put the wife and dog in the passenger seat (left side), shock them (and the ute) around....Chuckle Snigger.... and got the following results.

Sixth test
Right 96.4cm 96.1cm
Front Rear
Left 94.1cm 95.5cm

After Moving the Ballast (Wife and Dog) over to the Drivers seat (Right side) I got these results proving my theory.

Seventh test
Right 94.2cm 94.4cm
Front Rear
Left 95.6cm 96.4cm

:idea:

So my conclusion:
If you have a sag in the plus a full tank on that same side, get some ballast to balance the vehicle out.

So, when trying to remove a sag, get the bag on the other side. But bewear of the NAG!
LOL :twisted:

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:17 pm

One Final Foot Note.
In the process of mesuring things I found that my shocks, Standard Toyota, were near their maximum range of extension.

While driving on road and cornering the shock on the inside had only a further 5mm (YES FIVE MILLIMETRES!!!!) to travel.
Causing some interesting handling.

The OME Springs were fine.

I think the shock on the Right Hand Side had even less extension.
As a result the springs could not return the Hilux back to Neutral.

I ordered some OME shocks from Auckland 4x4 in Papakura, Nice Guys, and in 15 minutes my ride problems were solved.

Especially no the travel of the shock is roughly centre of its movement to extend or flex.

Thanks all for your ideas they really helped!

Cheers from Anton

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:26 am

One other thing... to test if its front or rear springs which are causing the sag park the truck on a level surface, then jack under the rear diff head, and measure the height on both sides at the front - or just see if both wheels come off at the back at the same time... if one wheel lifts noticably before the other then the front springs are most likely out of whack. repeat the performance at the front, picking a point on the axle housing that is about centred and see what happens there... with only two springs on the ground you can see which side is sitting higher.

Steve

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:45 pm

That almost sounds scientific... WOW I am amased at the kevel of knowledge bouncing around in this group.

Well better get back to work so I can pay for bits to add to the Hilux

Polarice · Post by **Polarice** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:56 pm

Thanks. Steve/Supralux, just tried it and sure enough the left rear is still on the ground when the right rear is about 30-35mm clear.
The front is close to normal but the right comes clear by 10-15mm before the left.
So now its time to save for some springs. Front and rear.
One other thing that gives the rear away, is when going to full articulation the body/chassis follows the rear, which causes the front end to work more. I am guessing that ideally the body/chassis should be an average or middle of where the front and rear are articulated to.
My fear for going to softer spris all round is the loss of the load carrying ability that i need on the farm. I guess i could clamp on overload springs.....?

Supralux, i see you sell springs.
All i know is the Toyota and OME 8 leaf springs. how are yours.... pluses and minuses.

I do about 4 safari journeys a year and drive in snow every day in the winter. Sometimes snow crashing to form a path.
I also do close to 15000km on dirt/gravel per annum.
Any ideas on what to purchase?

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:15 am

Yes, I sell the Maxitrac ones you see in the banner add at the top every now and then... the fronts are a 6-leaf and the rears are a 7 from memory. They retain good load carrying while flexing reasonably well and providing a 50mm lift.

from what you are saying its the fronts at fault... sounds like the passenger side spring is losing its ability to hold the truck up.

I'd throw a new set of fronts in it and leave the back alone based on what you've said there.

Steve

Steve_t647 · Post by **Steve_t647** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:31 pm

OK Steve do you mean the front left shock is at fault because it is compressing more than the drivers?

But when the fornt is raised the drivers one compressed more? Is this due to the diff and differences in the drivers side spring and can be concidered normal?

Sorry I don't have the practical spring experience to work this but myself but am interested.

Hilux Sag

Hilux Sag

;-p

;-p