Page 6 of 11
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:00 pm
by fj40
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:06 pm
by safaripete
haha yeah my night vision is good but not that good
will need to get sum big ass spot lights on there somewhere
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:20 pm
by Jerry
I thought there were only 5 wires in the 40's
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:56 am
by PeterVahry
Comittee, I have a question.. Is it or is it not a competition? My vehicle insurance doesnt cover "Competitions, Time trials or any form of competitive motorsport
Have no doubt, your insurance company will view it as competition, no matter what the committee call it!
That's the risk you take if you put your vehicle into an event. You can insure against problems that you might cause while on a competition location (ie third party cover) but not while under starters orders or a timing device.
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:39 am
by DieselBoy
So technically competitors should have NZ4WDA member ship and 3rd party insurence through either their insurence company or through the likes of the Auckland 4WD club's insurence.
Again, the kind of stuff that should have been specified and made a requirement before entries could be accepted
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:19 pm
by madaz068
Thanks for all the positive comments guys, the committee for this event are not meeting until late Jan next year. Once we have meet, we will post all the information for this fun trip.
If you would like to make a suggestion please email the committee on
costa24@naki4wd.comMerry Xmas everyone
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:42 pm
by Bulletproof
My only comments at this point are. The organizers are doing a bloody good job and I know how much work is involved in setting up an event like this because I have done it in the past.
I am completely happy with the time frame set out and think the organizers should just forget about it till the end of Jan and have a relaxing Xmas break and enjoy themselves with their families.
Cheers Richard
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:44 pm
by fj40
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:29 pm
by wisard2
H
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:03 pm
by Landy Rover
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:20 pm
by safaripete
i will be making my diesel welder/generator available for this weekend for anyone who needs it to do repairs etc
i will supply welding rods and grinders aswell
so that hopefully will make life a little easier for breakages when they happen
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:53 pm
by BlackCruiser
safaripete wrote:i will be making my diesel welder/generator available for this weekend for anyone who needs it to do repairs etc
i will supply welding rods and grinders aswell
so that hopefully will make life a little easier for breakages when they happen
Thats great i will be able to plug my heater into your generator at night
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:25 pm
by Jafa
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:08 am
by badnuz
silly
closet toyota lovers!!
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:23 am
by Landy Rover
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:45 pm
by xj
DieselBoy wrote:So technically competitors should have NZ4WDA member ship and 3rd party insurence through either their insurence company or through the likes of the Auckland 4WD club's insurence.
Again, the kind of stuff that should have been specified and made a requirement before entries could be accepted
No-ones listening to ya DB.
Ive just read and re-read this from start to finish and here's the summation ive come up with:
1)Theres a "tough truck challenge" thats not a competitive event, even though there is talk of prizes, entry fees and timed winners.
2)The non-competitive event is being run solely run under the ORE banner, and ORE is purely an internet forum that exists only in cyberspace and has no authority to be the "banner" (ie: promoter / governing body / protectorate) for anything other than internet chitchat, and giving Jerry a hard time.
3)ORE is certainly not a club, and as such provides no protection for insurances, nor is recognised by OSH or ACC. (unless of course the required paperwork has been submitted to the relevant authorities under the non exitant ORE clubs "banner"?)
4)No-one can outline the rules required for the "non-competitive prize earning" event. esp the lack of requirement for a roll cage, which (to me) is unthinkable. Remember the young blokes not so long ago........
5)No-one can yet detail the entry fee requirements to enter a "team" (which denotes a sporting contest)
Does that sound about right?
Im not trying to knock.... (well..... not really
)...... remember the "event" organiser a few years back that was held criminally liable when one of the bicyclists on their "race" was stuck and killed by a car. Wasnt her fault that the car was where it ought not to have been...... but she was held responible for the safety of all "entrants" in the "event" that she organised, and hence she was accused of failing to provide the safety of the participants. Lets not see a similar occurance.
Wishing you all the best fellas, good on ya if you pull it off. Obviously theres been some hard work put in to date, but theres gunna be a heap of work still to come to get those 5 points sorted. Then again, youve said that theres still a heap of work to do, so good luck, keep up the outstanding effort..... and in the meantime, enjoy the Christmas and New Year break.
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:02 pm
by badnuz
wisard2 wrote:Hi Guys, just wishing everyone a Merry Xmas & Happy New Year. Myself & working team putting this together are taking a break over the Xmas period.
We won't be holding our next working bee & meeting until the end of January. Another update will be posted shortly after, including the rules, entry fee's and so forth.
So on behalf of myself & my team, everyone have a safe & enjoyable holiday period.
Any inquiries/suggestions, we can be contacted on;
costa24@naki4wd.com
xj :fair points but if you read Wisards post ( as quoted above ) all will be revealed/posted next year, and yes, we were overwhelmed by the immdeiate response for filling of the teams etc. your points will be noted and discussed at our next working bee, but please any comments like this can be made via our working team email
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:04 pm
by xj
Sorry about that, figured that due to the below quote............
wisard2 wrote:The 1st Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge will be held on Queens Birthday Weekend 2009.
This event will be an ORE event only, and run strictly under the ORE Banner.
........... any commentary/dialogue would be on this forum. Didnt see the need to comment anywhere else. My apologies.
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:25 pm
by skid
TO ALL THOSE FORUM USERS WHO SEEM INTENT ON DRAGGING THIS EVENT AS FAR THROUGH THE MUD AS THEY CAN.
I can understand what you are trying to point out, but what you don't realise is that there has been a shit load of behind the scenes politics to do with this event and to the best of my knowledge I am fairly sure the organisors would of had enough of reading all this nosensical bickering.
I believe its time we just left them to thier own devices to enjoy the xmas break and put in some more effort into thier event without all the bollocks that has been offered to them.
I know you guys are just trying to point out standard procedures or practices, but the organisors have done this kind of thing before.
So lets just leave them to it and hope we can all enjoy a great event next year.
The simple answer would be, that if you feel this strongly about how the evnet is being run, then FFS stay away from it and decide for yourself not to be a part of it, otherwise shut up, grab another beer, sit back and chill dudes.
p.s. this is not a dig at anybody, just a general observation and my 2c worth.
merry xmas and luv to all, skiddy
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:58 pm
by xj
skid wrote:TO ALL THOSE FORUM USERS WHO SEEM INTENT ON DRAGGING THIS EVENT AS FAR THROUGH THE MUD AS THEY CAN.
I can understand what you are trying to point out, but what you don't realise is that there has been a shit load of behind the scenes politics to do with this event and to the best of my knowledge I am fairly sure the organisors would of had enough of reading all this nosensical bickering.
I believe its time we just left them to thier own devices to enjoy the xmas break and put in some more effort into thier event without all the bollocks that has been offered to them.
I know you guys are just trying to point out standard procedures or practices, but the organisors have done this kind of thing before.
So lets just leave them to it and hope we can all enjoy a great event next year.
The simple answer would be, that if you feel this strongly about how the evnet is being run, then FFS stay away from it and decide for yourself not to be a part of it, otherwise shut up, grab another beer, sit back and chill dudes.
p.s. this is not a dig at anybody, just a general observation and my 2c worth.
merry xmas and luv to all, skiddy
Skiddy, I know your werent directly referring to me, but please allow me to retort.....
Sorry, i dont get it. I didnt know people weren't "chill"
Theres only been a handful of comments asking for clarifiaction on what is and isnt happening, and not seemingly in an outrightly negative fashion.
I haven't seen anyone dragging the event through the mud on this thread.
If there has been politicking behind the scenes as you say, you have just highlighted it unnecessarily.
As for nonsensical bickering... again, I dont see it on this thread, so I can only assume that you are again referring to whatever has been happening behind the scenes.
I dont feel strongly about the event one way or the other, i have just read what is posted here and been left with a "WTF???" and have commented as I have interpreted things. My interpretation may well be incorrect, and the questions I asked/points I raised, may well be quite in hand with the organisers, I dont know, hence the queries.
I will however, take part of your advise and sit back and have a beer....... and probably best if I STFU, cause im good at getting things across seemingly all wrong.
Again, good luck with the event...... I wsih you all the best of muddy fun!!!!!!!
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:59 pm
by Bulletproof
I have entered this event and as far as i'm concerned all these issues raised are worth nothing.
It is not on public ground so the public can't sue and as far as the competitors are involved, the organizers only have to get them all to sign a piece of paper saying they will assess the hazard first and take full responsibility for their decisson whether to attempt it or not.
As a competitor I'm willing to do that, so there can be no claim against any one of the organizers. Every trip in the Canterbury Landrover owners club we do it to relieve the club of responsibility.
Like skid said . lets enjoy the break and have a happy new year.
Cheers Richard
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:11 pm
by skid
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:43 pm
by abbo
Bulletproof wrote:I have entered this event and as far as i'm concerned all these issues raised are worth nothing.
It is not on public ground so the public can't sue and as far as the competitors are involved, the organizers only have to get them all to sign a piece of paper saying they will assess the hazard first and take full responsibility for their decisson whether to attempt it or not.
As a competitor I'm willing to do that, so there can be no claim against any one of the organizers. Every trip in the Canterbury Landrover owners club we do it to relieve the club of responsibility.
Like skid said . lets enjoy the break and have a happy new year.
Cheers Richard
Very well put.... merry xmas and have a safe new year
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:10 pm
by DieselBoy
Bulletproof wrote:I have entered this event and as far as i'm concerned all these issues raised are worth nothing.
It is not on public ground so the public can't sue and as far as the competitors are involved, the organizers only have to get them all to sign a piece of paper saying they will assess the hazard first and take full responsibility for their decisson whether to attempt it or not.
As a competitor I'm willing to do that, so there can be no claim against any one of the organizers. Every trip in the Canterbury Landrover owners club we do it to relieve the club of responsibility.
Like skid said . lets enjoy the break and have a happy new year.
Cheers Richard
Oh dear Mr Bulletproof.
It has been proven in court, that if shit goes down, which is highly probable with out a roll cage requirement, that a disclaimer is not worth the paper it is written on.
To quote :
PeterVahry wrote:Dieselboy, you are right, the NZFWDA policy does cover Rural and Forest Fire and if the club hosting the event is NZFWDA affiliated, they are indemnified. If you are a NZFWDA member too, then that cover extends to you when you are participating in an activity organised/ hosted by a NZFWDA club. That's why it is required that participants are linked to a NZFWDA club.
If that system was not applied and a non-NZFWDA person caused a claim on the event then you can bet your bottom dollar that the insurers would be looking to offset their loss by following up on that person.
The NZFWDA insurance does apply to members when they are involved in activities with their own or another NZFWDA club, if that activity is recognised by that club. (No let's go up here, oops.... oh well we'll say it was a club trip!)
'Self insurance' is fine if the only risk is to your own property but it rarely is. As Jeremy pointed out there are options at less than a tank of fuel in cost, that do give others the peace of mind that their property is protected too.
The 'self scrutineer' is a direction that 4x4 Challenges have been advocating for a while, along with the use of log books for the vehicles to allow easy recognition of changes to vehicles etc.
The idea is not to 'scrutineer' but to simply 'audit' the vehicle to see if it still complies with the log book statements.
While the idea of the driver signs that they accept liability for everything while they are competing again sounds fine, the way our laws look at things is not so simple and if there's a death or other incident, then everyone is dragged into it. Having organised events it can be rather nerve wracking watching drivers take risks as that red mist takes over and you are thinking.... what do I tell the relatives and how many days/weeks will be taken up explaining to the Police, the Coroner and the Courts?
Organisers just have to apply risk management now, as it's not just about competitors anymore.
Fortunately there are still people who are willing to put the time in to do that event organising and accept some risk to their own livelyhood and they don't get a lot of thanks.
I hope I'm helping to explain why it's not so easy to just accept that enthusiastic competitors can turn up and have a go.
Peter
and
PeterVahry wrote:The NZFWDA cover could possibly be seen as a de-facto Third Party cover but that's not it's intention and it should not be used in that manner. The 'member to member' factor comes into play and unless specifically written out, as it is in the Auckland Club's policy, then other participants or NZFWDA members involved, are still at risk.
When you are actually on a competition 'stage' then you don't have any cover from either policy. The club does however have cover for the consequences of an incident where a competing vehicle leaves the competition stage and , for example, demolishes a fence line. In that case the NZFWDA is 'carrying the can' for the competitors because it also is protecting the organisers.
Fortunately so far these arguments have been untested by claims and have only been discussed with the NZFWDA brokers and other insurers. Again we are aiming for 'best practice' in how we apply the cover that we've negotiated.
Peter
On a side note, my angle on this event is based on the fact that the organisers have let things get ahead of the organising.
The event is not even organised yet, just as XJ acurately pointed out, yet the organisers have acepted entries from competitors, who therefore not understand thetrue nature and requirements of the event they have entered.
There are no entry forms to be signed.
One would presume that's due to the fact that no one knows what anyone is signing up for??
If you run an event, you have an entry form. If you have a max of 6 team entries available, then its the first 6 teams that get their entry forms completed and signed and all the entry fees paid and to the organiser that get in. Simple as that.
My point is that the organisers, once "feeling" out the interest for the event, should have the sense to pull back and wait untill they had their shit sorted and the important part of the event sussed before the even considered taking entries.
There's so many unanswered questions that have been brushed of with a "look back through the thread" comment.
At the end of the day, even if entries are full and stay that way, i would love to come down and help out in what ever way i can, I'm a good sport in reality (off internet land where things come accross alot corser than face to face)!!!!!!!!
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:13 pm
by Jerry
Pretty much everything re entry fee's, rules, vehicle requirements etc will be posted early February, so please all be patient until then.
It would seem all these issues are being looked at by the "committee", and I guess they will be ready early Feb, one of the things they may look at is insurance cover (ie non nzfwda). Given the high experience involved in the organising team maybe you guys could sit down and start supporting this event instead of taking potshots from the sidelines
if you want politics then go and join the bloody labour party
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:23 pm
by DieselBoy
Jerry wrote:Pretty much everything re entry fee's, rules, vehicle requirements etc will be posted early February, so please all be patient until then.
It would seem all these issues are being looked at by the "committee", and I guess they will be ready early Feb, one of the things they may look at is insurance cover (ie non nzfwda). Given the high experience involved in the organising team maybe you guys could sit down and start supporting this event instead of taking potshots from the sidelines
if you want politics then go and join the bloody labour party
What kind of a bullshit unconstructive comment is that???
There's no pot shots, just constructive criticisim from people that would hate to see the organisers get them slves in the shit and damage chances for future events of this kind!!!!!!
The main criticisim is that the event should have been organised before entries where accepted
But hey, if no one care's and don't wanna listen, then so be it
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:45 pm
by xj
Jerry wrote:Given the high experience involved in the organising team maybe you guys could sit down and start supporting this event instead of taking potshots from the sidelines
if you want politics then go and join the bloody labour party
speaking of folks organising events... how is rallywoods Jerry..... oh hang on.... no, thats right...... (now
THATS a potshot!)
Perhaps Jerry you could shed some light with specifics on who is taking potshots.... otherwise.... well im sure i dont have to spell out where this particular comment might lead. (Clue - involves coitus in a remote location) at least skid qualified his comments with some background knowledge... but honestly Jerry, your brain-dead random comments really give people the shits sometimes aye man.
TAKE A BREATH, COUNT TO 10....Before i get told buy the establishment... watch me as off i fuk.....
Ive said more than enough, wrong time wrong place for the above vitriol, sorry about the nosy involvement wisard2 and others in your thread, ill be buggering off out of it now, and leaving y'all to it. Im sure things will work out for the better.
As a disclaimer to the above outburst, and specifically about the comments on this thread in general, Dieselboy and myself have not colluded in any fashion, and our opinions are entirely independant and not related.
[DB, we gotta stop this, people will start to think that we get along.]
Merry Christmas everyone.
All my love and best wishes
from that annoying Jeep driver, Mark
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:10 pm
by madaz068
DB, XJ
Both of you have raised good points that the committee will be discussing at there meeting in Jan. But let me just add these points so we are clear on some points
1/ This is a friendly event not a full on comp. Yes there will be timed events and points awarded, just like a club gymkana (spelling bad on that one).
2/ There is NO WAY i personally would let a open top vehicle with out a roll cage enter. Most vehicles from what i know are road legal, so will have hard tops. If this has not been clear i very sorry for the error and i hope this gives you a better understanding of the roll cage point both of you have raised.
3/ Ryan (wizard2) suggested this trip and never expected to fill all 6 teams so quickly. The committee has already had a working bee at Costa and marked out the tracks we plan to use for both day and night stages. As im sure you can understand, at this time of year its hard for everyone to get together. I promise that we are working very hard to make this an enjoyable and safe trip for everyone that comes.
4/ Can everyone please just put a little trust in the committee working in the back ground. Most of us have run events like this before and will do our best to answer all questions once we have a chance to meet at Costa and discuss everything.
DB, XJ, you are more than welcome to come down on Queens Birthday weekend, share a quiet one over the fire.
Enough smacking each other around, its XMAS after all.
Also a side point Ryan and I have been working on a website for Costa. Here it is
http://www.costaplenty4x4.com Have a look around PM us with your thoughts
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:47 am
by wisard2
H
Re: Costa Plenty 24 Hour Tough Truck Challenge.
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:51 am
by crizpy
sites looking good
Had a awesome time last I was up there ... cnt wait to get back there in sloppy season ,
going to be a awesome weekend.. cheers
