Offroad-Express

lincooln wrote:So from I have read, most people want a rolling cert? and I believe this will go a long way to helping with unsafe un-certed trucks etc.

The Authority card is only there to prove you have the need for the lift, I do not agree with the member for one year as new members are punished especially if they have already had a modified truck that will be above the new threshold. Also it should not be retrospective as it is going to piss more people off and is a pain for people such as the example I made above. and has been said before. If your 50, been wheeling since your 15 and are not in a club but have a 150mm lifted truck you know have to park up your truck and wait a year, but to prove you need it you must then buy a second 4wd to use on club trips in the interim to prove you drive off road. NOT FAIR.

Yes Tony you and the NZFWDA are doing a great job and should be commended and yes the consequences of not participating the the rule changes would be catostrophic to our hobby, but there must be a better way to do something? I think maybe a public submission process would have been good to get thoughts on what people would like to see, what they would think would work and wouldn't work. From what I can tell these new rules have been drafted up with no public input what so ever. How can you get a fair idea of what your members position on this is without actually asking them? You seem to be guessing this is what people want.

The logistics of the authority card is going to be hard, and what is stopping the club captains from issuing cards to all members who have applied to get one? Do people who hold the card have to prove club membership of a year or more when presenting the card to WoF or police? Also what happens to club captains if they do give out cards willy nilly? are they going to get fined? the club? assn? Who gets the blame?

Finally there needs to be provision for people who have been wheeling for ages or farmers etc to get an authority card straight away. Maybe don'y have it linked to the club but to the assn only? All that's going to happen with these rules if they come into effect the way they are now, is going to make a lot more illegal vehicles on the road. Short - midterm term maybe but it will happen.

DieselBoy wrote:

rangimotors wrote:Muddey1 you have not come on here to ask our opinion, you have decided what is going to happen/control us and decided to defend it. Doesn't matter what anyone says you will not change your mind as to what you put forward.

You wonder why everyone doesnt want to become a member of your assn.
I would rather get a fine a day than have a man like you represent me (rule me) and tell me what i can and can't do. I have done before but I will never again pay any money to your assn.

Enjoy life attempting to rule the roost..

^^^^^^ Like ^^^^^^^^

coxsy wrote:not much point in reposting rangimotors stuff he's doesn't want to be part of the solution, so leave it be

rangimotors wrote:Thats where you are wrong cock sy, i'd love to be part of the solution however at no point has the public been asked. The decision has been made by them and they have no interest in changing it, only defending it. A bunch of one eyed jaffas who seem. To think the only people who matter are people that want to sign up with them. People have been lifting trucks in this country long before them and will be lifting them long after them

Establishment of the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association

Also during 1992, the six organisations then involved in some way with the new-born LVV certification system (not all of them were actually operating LVV certification systems), formed the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association Incorporated (LVVTA), as a parent body to represent the interests of those six groups, and to produce the LVV certification plates for the groups carrying out LVV certification operations.
By the mid-1990s, then with eight member associations (and effectively representing all of the other non-member enthusiasts in New Zealand), LVVTA had taken on the role of dealing with the Government directly on behalf of all of their member groups - rather than each group individually knocking on the Ministry’s door as had initially been happening - and was having a positive effect on the overall LVV certification system. The individual certifying member associations like NZHRA could then worry less about the politics, and get on with looking after
their certification operations.

The single-certification system merger

After a couple of years of operation, it had become apparent that the quality of inspections varied between the groups, and that the inspection quality wasn’t ever going to become uniform while individual groups operated their own systems, and developed their own individual interpretations of the Government’s vehicle standards. To resolve this, the development and implementation of a unified single-certification system, and commonised
‘alternative standards’, was agreed upon by the member associations of LVVTA.
In 1995 LVVTA took on the role of merging the systems into one, under LVVTA’s administrative control. NZHRA had been doing around 70% of all of the LVV certification work since 1992, and their system was by far the most advanced and comprehensive, particularly from an inspection quality point of view. The single-certification system therefore became based primarily around NZHRA’s systems and documentation, and was up and running in 1996.
At the same time, the Ministry of Transport’s by then new arm, the Land Transport Safety Authority (now known as the New Zealand Transport Agency) took over the responsibility for appointing and revoking the individual LVV certifiers (until then the responsibility of the LVVTA member associations), along with the independent auditing of the quality of the LVV Certifiers’ work.

The low volume vehicle system today

Since the merging of the systems in 1996, the LVV certification system has, amidst a few ups and downs, been improved and refined enormously, with the development of a selection of low volume vehicle standards which set technical requirements to cover a wide range of safety-related systems and modifications.
These range from all of the typical performance enhancement type of modifications (engine conversions, brakes, suspension, wheels, etc) to seat installations, seatbelt anchorage retro- fitting, right-hand drive steering conversions, removal and disabling of supplementary restraint system air-bags, security modifications for security vans, through to adaptive control systems for people with disabilities, and designing modifications to remedy factory faults in production vehicles.
The LVVTA system, now with ten LVVTA member associations supporting it, has over the past decade expanded beyond just low volume vehicle standards, and now encompasses form-sets, information sheets, and other supporting documentation. The LVVTA documentation system is now so extensive that it fills a 7-volume set of manuals. A substantial chunk of the technical expertise and input behind all of this has in fact come from hot rodders – mostly NZHRA members - who still today continue to contribute a massive wealth of technical input into the LVVTA knowledge pool.
The vast majority of the almost 60 LVV Certifiers around the country are the practical hands-on hobbyists who have spent their lives building and modifying cars, making mistakes and learning from them, amassing knowledge from the car club scene, and furthering their knowledge even beyond that through the engineering side of the motor racing environment.
Amongst these LVV Certifiers, who largely come from a hot rodding background, are national championship winners from the Dunlop Targa, the Muscle Car series, the Pre-’65 Saloon Car series, Clubmans racing, Off-road racing series, and there are national record-holders and championship winners in the national drag racing series. Also within the LVV certifier network is a world land speed record holder, a sports car manufacturer, a kit car designer and builder, a 6-second 200 mph dragster driver and tuner, along with numerous award-winning hot rod
fabricators, and people that build, engineer, and wrench on everything from dragsters to circuit cars, to tarmac rally cars.
Most of these guys started their LVV certification involvement right at the inception of the LVV system in 1992, and are utterly irreplaceable; - there is no degree, trade, profession, poly-tech, night-school, or text-books that can equip someone without the life-time of first- hand knowledge and experience that these people have – these practical hobbyist-based LVV Certifiers are graduates, with honours, from the real-world university of a car-building life, and from a decade or more of assessing, and learning from, the many and varied vehicles they inspect in their LVV certification role. Without them, the system would collapse. We must all – hobbyists and Government officials alike - respect them and value them enormously, and at the same time keep an eye toward the next generation of LVV certifiers, who are now quietly doing their hobby car building ‘time’, in their home-garages in every corner of the country.

The future of the low volume vehicle system

The job however, is far from over. There is still a mountain of work to do, because time, trends, and technology never stand still, especially in the world of modified and scratch-built vehicles – where everyone is trying to do something that is just that little bit different to everyone else. There are still many technical standards needed and yet to be completed, and there are a host of other components and systems that all need safety-related technical requirements put in place to ensure that whilst we are able to maintain our traditional freedoms to modify and build hobby cars, we do so whilst incorporating the highest levels of safety that can be practically achieved.
Our challenge, however, is to achieve this within a general legislative environment that is increasingly safety-conscious, heavily regulated, environmentally paranoid, and politically correct - no, - make that politically over-the-top. No matter how diligent we are, how seriously we take our responsibilities, and how well we do our job, managing our situation within this ‘Nana-state’ will always be our biggest challenge

DieselBoy wrote:

hosehustler wrote:I saw it ccoming and went just plain whole hog and thumb my nose at all rules and regulations ......No reg, no wof, do what you want to it.
Trailer your weapon to where ya wanna go, and have a shite load of fun without the F'n plague of rule freaks
That to me is the only future here for a decent capable "4X4"

Yeah, same.

I tried to tell the Winch Challenge freaks up here the same thing last year but they just didn't get it.

They couldn't see how they were throwing money away to comply with rules that were totally irrelevant when your in the tough stuff off road in your truck.

Why pay for a WOF, REG, Cert, Insurance, when a trailer costs $35 a year all up.

I do see another catch in the mix though.........

DOC have discovered some rules that are new to them, but have been in place sinxce 2008.

You need a WOF and REG to be on public land.

To get a WOF and REG on your truck you need to be 4x4 club member, a NZ4WDA member, have a Low Volume Certificate, NZ4WDA Authority Weetbix card licence and thrid party insurance.

Again, a membership drive for NZ4WDA??

They know full well what DOC is up to.......

Taking advantage of the situation maybe???

tallsam66 wrote:

rangimotors wrote:Thats where you are wrong cock sy, i'd love to be part of the solution however at no point has the public been asked. The decision has been made by them and they have no interest in changing it, only defending it. A bunch of one eyed jaffas who seem. To think the only people who matter are people that want to sign up with them. People have been lifting trucks in this country long before them and will be lifting them long after them

Yeah the North Island 4 Wheel Drive Assn is only interested in looking after the north island & ensuring they still get there dividend from the LVVTA..hench why its a bit of a dead duck down her in the mainland.

Ralfie wrote:

tallsam66 wrote:

rangimotors wrote:Thats where you are wrong cock sy, i'd love to be part of the solution however at no point has the public been asked. The decision has been made by them and they have no interest in changing it, only defending it. A bunch of one eyed jaffas who seem. To think the only people who matter are people that want to sign up with them. People have been lifting trucks in this country long before them and will be lifting them long after them

Yeah the North Island 4 Wheel Drive Assn is only interested in looking after the north island & ensuring they still get there dividend from the LVVTA..hench why its a bit of a dead duck down her in the mainland.

That's where you are totally wrong.

More like the south are one eyed negative hypocrites who for their own glorification and justification don’t see that it’s the NZTA making changes, but instead blame everything on the shoulders of those who have come together as one group to try and do something for the good of 4WD owners throughout NZ.
If you look at the size of the NZFWDA compared with your own little bunch of mismatched mates you will realise that they have actually gone out and tried to do something positive and therefore are respected for it by the powers that be.
Infighting like this separates and destroys the good work done by so few.
Instead of bleating on here with the rest of the muppets go and do something rather than blaming others for your misery.

rangimotors wrote:come on mate your in a world of your own if you think the NZFWDA has more members than there are people who like to modify 4wds in NZ but don't want to be part of a club. The kicker is you havent even asked all your members. So your small "group" want to decide our futures but you don't want us to comment/vote or have any input. I think they have a name for that....

Ralfie wrote:

rangimotors wrote:come on mate your in a world of your own if you think the NZFWDA has more members than there are people who like to modify 4wds in NZ but don't want to be part of a club. The kicker is you havent even asked all your members. So your small "group" want to decide our futures but you don't want us to comment/vote or have any input. I think they have a name for that....

No good spouting on at me, or even on here.
If you want input go direct to NZTA, nothing will ever come of your pathetic grizzling and words on this Forum.

The only way you can influence NZFWDA is by being a member.
And the way you and many others are behaving I am sure that they will have turned off by now as they they don't have to listen (read) your insults.

As a non member you are on your own and left to deal with the NZTA directly.

Twodiffs wrote:

DieselBoy wrote:

hosehustler wrote:I saw it ccoming and went just plain whole hog and thumb my nose at all rules and regulations ......No reg, no wof, do what you want to it.
Trailer your weapon to where ya wanna go, and have a shite load of fun without the F'n plague of rule freaks
That to me is the only future here for a decent capable "4X4"

Yeah, same.

I tried to tell the Winch Challenge freaks up here the same thing last year but they just didn't get it.

They couldn't see how they were throwing money away to comply with rules that were totally irrelevant when your in the tough stuff off road in your truck.

Why pay for a WOF, REG, Cert, Insurance, when a trailer costs $35 a year all up.

I do see another catch in the mix though.........

DOC have discovered some rules that are new to them, but have been in place sinxce 2008.

You need a WOF and REG to be on public land.

To get a WOF and REG on your truck you need to be 4x4 club member, a NZ4WDA member, have a Low Volume Certificate, NZ4WDA Authority Weetbix card licence and thrid party insurance.

Again, a membership drive for NZ4WDA??

They know full well what DOC is up to.......

Taking advantage of the situation maybe???

I really dunno about that, can't speak for buggies or 4wd's but I can testify to dirt bikes. A workmate got confronted in the Selwyn last year near Coes Ford riding his bike...copped a $400 fine for no wof or reg, basically unroadworthy.

His father being a retired cop verified it and said it's a legit infringement so he had to pay it.

Mudde1 wrote:.

lincooln wrote:So from I have read, most people want a rolling cert? and I believe this will go a long way to helping with unsafe un-certed trucks etc.
This has been considered, but is in the way too hard basket at present.. You can of course negotate fees with the certerfer.[[/]/i]
The Authority card is only there to prove you have the need for the lift, I do not agree with the member for one year as new members are punished especially if they have already had a modified truck that will be above the new threshold. [i] The one year requirement is standard for all authority cards, and was non negotiable. If the modified truck already meets the threshold and has a cert, that will still be the case, no change . [b][b][/b]Also it should not be retrospective it isent retrospective. as it is going to piss more people off and is a pain for people such as the example I made above. and has been said before. If your 50, been wheeling since your 15 and are not in a club but have a 150mm lifted truck you know have to park up your truck and wait a year, but to prove you need it you must then buy a second 4wd to use on club trips in the interim to prove you drive off road. NOT FAIR.if your truck has a 150 mm lift, it is most likley that it should already have a cert. so wont require an authority card,

Yes Tony you and the NZFWDA are doing a great job and should be commended and yes the consequences of not participating the the rule changes would be catostrophic to our hobby, but there must be a better way to do something? I think maybe a public submission process would have been good to get thoughts on what people would like to see, what they would think would work and wouldn't work. From what I can tell these new rules have been drafted up with no public input what so ever. How can you get a fair idea of what your members position on this is without actually asking them? You seem to be guessing this is what people want.it was discussed at length at the recent conference to which every member was invited and every club should have sent a rep.That is the correct forum for it to be discussed. you can also have it discussed it at zone meetings

The logistics of the authority card is going to be hard, and what is stopping the club captains from issuing cards to all members who have applied to get one? Do people who hold the card have to prove club membership of a year or more when presenting the card to WoF or police? NO. Just show a current authority card. Also what happens to club captains if they do give out cards willy nilly? are they going to get fined? the club? assn? Who gets the blame? club captions wont give out the cards, they only sign the application. No problem with them signing as many applications as they wish, the vehicle still needs to have a cert issued before the card is issued.
Finally there needs to be provision for people who have been wheeling for ages or farmers etc to get an authority card straight away. Not if they don't belong to a club. We are elected and funded to provide services to our members. Non members have for years been benefiting from the work of NZFWDA but No one has ever complained about that. Maybe don'y have it linked to the club but to the assn only? All that's going to happen with these rules if they come into effect the way they are now, is going to make a lot more illegal vehicles on the road. Short - midterm term maybe but it will happen.

muddyhilux wrote:ok above answers make things a bit clearer,thank you for that,do you have any idea on when this will come into effect though?so as the people who have had certified vehicles (100mm+) and are now further modifying them can the work towards a date to have them recertified by and not have to get authority card etc,cheers

Mudde1 wrote: max 50mm susp on a WoF lift

Mudde1 wrote:

muddyhilux wrote:ok above answers make things a bit clearer,thank you for that,do you have any idea on when this will come into effect though?so as the people who have had certified vehicles (100mm+) and are now further modifying them can the work towards a date to have them recertified by and not have to get authority card etc,cheers

unfortunately i don't have a time line. the max 50mm susp on a WoF lift is already in force, we weren't consulted about that. it will be a few months before authority cards become available, and i don't think the max lift on a cert will come in before that, so for club members, there shouldn't be a problem.