Page 9 of 15
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:11 pm
by mudzilla
Isn't Fumeing like a catalist to help burn the unused diesel ? it takes the fuel burn from 75/80% to 95 plus % hence more power ? Mines got no knock/rattle ( or I'm deaf ) and if it did , it would be dead by now ! And to piss you off some more the EGT goes down with the gas on, on the road, goes up under full tit, but still not enough to melt pistons. Your doing it wrong, To much gas. And I aint no fking cheerleader.You experts do the math, about 2% lpg/Diesel then do your Test, and not at idle, 1500 rpm plus.... Not to much gas tho eh,it will knock and mite blow up.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:19 pm
by monstr
Is it just me or has this thread been taken over and gone miles of topic ,I wasnt going to make a comment but to try and get it back Yes lpg does work ,a year or so ago i borrowed a bullydog kit and had it on my nissan 4.2 turbo ,to start with i wired it up to a switch and just turned it on when required ,later on i wired it to a micro switch on the gas pedal ,never had it dynoed dont really care just know when the lpg kicked in you could feel a definate difference also any black smoke cleared up .i ran it for approx 2 years with no real problems was only removed as the owner needed the kit back .
PS this kit was also tried on a 4.2 diesel N/A it made no difference to the truck power wise ..Steve
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:24 pm
by flyingbrick
KiwiBacon wrote:flyingbrick wrote:I'm going to do this tomorrow after work. Will pull a homer to make the required brackets etc.
I want to mount it on the center console between the front seats so that i can reach the tap to turn it on and off/make fuel adjustments on the fly.
Hopefully it wont cost me anything! scrap steel from work for the brackets (i can weld/machine stuff pretty good) and will borrow dads gas bottle. Mum wont notice 3-4 metres of garden hose missing either i don't think
Sounds safe.
You don't have a spare gas flow-meter do you? I'm wondering how accurate a welding gas meter will be with lpg. Then you'll know how much gas you're using.
Where/how are you going to inject the gas in the intake? You're LD28 no-turbo right?
TD42 no turbo. will push the hose onto the air intakes breather pipe thing so that it feeds into the intake and put a coke bottle with a sock inside it over the breather hose to collect the mist.
Wont need a gas flow-meter? I'll just open the tap slowly while the motors under load untill it starts banging and then back it off some? and mark the tap with a marker so i can set it to the same setting every time.
Ive seen a few setups and it looks like thats what they are doing pretty much.
-Nathan
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:26 pm
by KiwiBacon
flyingbrick wrote:TD42 no turbo. will push the hose onto the air intakes breather pipe thing so that it feeds into the intake and put a coke bottle with a sock inside it over the breather hose to collect the mist.
Wont need a gas flow-meter? I'll just open the tap slowly while the motors under load untill it starts banging and then back it off some? and mark the tap with a marker so i can set it to the same setting every time.
Ive seen a few setups and it looks like thats what they are doing pretty much.
-Nathan
Don't suppose you have an EGT gauge fitted?
It'll be interesting to see how it behaves in an IDI engine with higher compression.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:32 pm
by flyingbrick
KiwiBacon wrote:flyingbrick wrote:TD42 no turbo. will push the hose onto the air intakes breather pipe thing so that it feeds into the intake and put a coke bottle with a sock inside it over the breather hose to collect the mist.
Wont need a gas flow-meter? I'll just open the tap slowly while the motors under load untill it starts banging and then back it off some? and mark the tap with a marker so i can set it to the same setting every time.
Ive seen a few setups and it looks like thats what they are doing pretty much.
-Nathan
Don't suppose you have an EGT gauge fitted?
It'll be interesting to see how it behaves in an IDI engine with higher compression.
Exhaust Gas Time gauge??
I thought timing did not matter?
I'll make some phone calls and try to get one tomorrow- i think i saw some at repco a few weeks ago under the counter.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:36 pm
by wopass
KiwiBacon wrote:4.5 l/min is 0.5% of the intake air. That's pretty much exactly what others say they're running. At idle you can hear the detonation most clearly, hence the idle test.
Where's that dyno chart mr 970Nm?
we sure as hell arent using 4.5ltr per min!!!
if you did that you would probably get detonation at idle
dyno sheet...let me check...nope not in that pocket....maybe in my overalls....nope not here either...hang on ill check in the toilet cos its probably full of shit....Hmmm strange not there either... must be around somewhere....ohh wait i know...the fridge... must be there next to my TUI...yea right
...nope...Mmmm...TUI...so cold and good...
J_Dub wrote:yea the weathers been real good lately,
not a cloud in the sky,
birds have been singing
beautiful sunsets
clean crisp mornings
aaaarrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhh
life is good
damn right about that!!!, im so going up coromandel for a few days when i finish this stupid outage to do some fishing!!
fletcher bay here i come!!
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:37 pm
by mudzilla
Exhaust Gas Time gauge??
Holly hell ,, now were on to it
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:41 pm
by monstr
I can assure you if you try it on a non turbo it will make no noticable difference.also as Wayne(mudzilla) said i also noticed while on long uphill runs on the road Bombays etc i also had EGTs drop when using the LPG ..
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:44 pm
by wopass
ohh and i have no idea what mine pulls on a dyno, im too cheep to pay for that sort of shinanagans... or a fume set up for that matter, i just know it pulls like a son of a bich and makes lots of smoke
which im trying to reduce so my exhaust gas times dont get too fast
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:46 pm
by mudzilla
Is this the new Tuesday Joke thread ?
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:49 pm
by Swamped
If it keeps goin it could be the wednesday joke
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:50 pm
by mudzilla
Watch this space
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:51 pm
by vvega
KiwiBacon wrote:Okay I'll admit I screwed that up.
i still dont know how you can strut your stuff after you made such a monumental fuckup like that
seriously
there is no going back
i have as you put it a half degree .. and you say you have a degree in something ... honestly how can you even claim that now
some guy your called a dumarse know nothing ####
rubbish and bellitled has just ... made you look like a twat and proven you are over your head
sorry just reminding you that why i have no faith now in you ability to do any testing.. i found this out after the test
had i of realised you havent got the quals you claim to have i woudlnt had even entertained the though
you fooled me and you fooled many people with your suposed know how
the fact you didnt and still dont have the fundimentals
that is why i dont trust the test because you have proven to be incompotent ...
its your own fault you dont inspire confidance
and reallt the fact was if it was a proper test you woudl have turned the gass off then increased it tillknocing.. decreased it then talken the measurement and worked it out from there
thats how you do it impartially
you set out for failure and as soon as you got falure.. that was all you needed
its a flawed test
and frankly you dont know what your doing
reality is this threed has been abotu the same thing all th way though
your doing it wrong and your ... doing it wrong
nothings changed and all your done is proved that
now you have about 20 people thinking your a idiot ... what a success you are
oh and before you start rattling rubbish abotu my speelling like you did last time
.. least i know what my words mean and what i know is real
eveidently .. this is one of those cases that knowlage is far more important than thinking you know some big words :d
i admit it .. i am a fool to have belive you are compitent and im a fool to have tried to educate you
for that i apoligise to the good people of ore for having to read so many pages of wasted time
nighty night
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:57 pm
by flyingbrick
someone said that its not the pressure that makes it work good. its the hot air that makes lpg work good on turbo ones.
so i'll make a custom intake pipe over and close to the exhaust manifold to heat the air to make LPG work good? BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:57 pm
by wopass
Swamped wrote:If it keeps goin it could be the wednesday joke
fark it is nearly wednesday... where does the time go!!??
no seriously, where does it go??
vvega wrote:oh and before you start rattling rubbish abotu my speelling like you did last time
.. least i know what my words mean and what i know is real
i have to admit dude, your spelling is prety bad
sorry couldnt resist that one
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:59 pm
by wopass
mudzilla wrote:Watch this space
still watching.... need to blink but must keep watching.....
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:00 pm
by haynzy
vvega wrote:KiwiBacon wrote:Okay I'll admit I screwed that up.
i still dont know how you can strut your stuff after you made such a monumental fuckup like that
seriously
there is no going back
i have as you put it a half degree .. and you say you have a degree in something ... honestly how can you even claim that now
some guy your called a dumarse know nothing ####
rubbish and bellitled has just ... made you look like a twat and proven you are over your head
sorry just reminding you that why i have no faith now in you ability to do any testing.. i found this out after the test
had i of realised you havent got the quals you claim to have i woudlnt had even entertained the though
you fooled me and you fooled many people with your suposed know how
the fact you didnt and still dont have the fundimentals
that is why i dont trust the test because you have proven to be incompotent ...
its your own fault you dont inspire confidance
and reallt the fact was if it was a proper test you woudl have turned the gass off then increased it tillknocing.. decreased it then talken the measurement and worked it out from there
thats how you do it impartially
you set out for failure and as soon as you got falure.. that was all you needed
its a flawed test
and frankly you dont know what your doing
reality is this threed has been abotu the same thing all th way though
your doing it wrong and your ... doing it wrong
nothings changed and all your done is proved that
now you have about 20 people thinking your a idiot ... what a success you are
oh and before you start rattling rubbish abotu my speelling like you did last time
.. least i know what my words mean and what i know is real
eveidently .. this is one of those cases that knowlage is far more important than thinking you know some big words :d
i admit it .. i am a fool to have belive you are compitent and im a fool to have tried to educate you
for that i apoligise to the good people of ore for having to read so many pages of wasted time
nighty night
Dont apoligise
for the dumb people who cant type fast enough or now anthing about astro physics it has been very entertaining, much like going to the inlaws but without the dodgy advances from the motherinlaw
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:02 pm
by wopass
haynzy wrote:it has been very entertaining, much like going to the inlaws but without the dodgy advances from the motherinlaw
that sounds like an interesting story!!
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:02 pm
by mudzilla
flyingbrick wrote: its the hot air that makes lpg work good on turbo ones.
so i'll make a custom intake pipe over and close to the exhaust manifold to heat the air to make LPG work good?
Just duct in some hot air from this thread,, It'll fly...
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:51 pm
by long
Ive been running fumigation in my diesels for about 6 years now and its proven its self over n over as long as you dont let it ping IE to much LPG going into the motor. it will deliver up to 50% more power over a std motor touch wood i havnt blown one up yet i must get around to getting a cert for it u guess lol.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:09 pm
by mudzilla
long wrote: it will deliver up to 50% more power over a std motor .
Really..50%..hmmmm.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:25 pm
by Andrew1706
That's a 1HZ which is 4.2 6 cyl NA diesel.
Factory torque is 270nm, with 10psi of boost and gas injection the increase of 58.9% equals 430nm.
Australian 4WD Action #123 page #97
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:28 pm
by muddyhilux
geez ive been watching this aswell,dam who wouldve thort 10 pages from last night to noew,and ive just seen the first graph
ill keep watching,this aint my area of expertee either so im not gona coment
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:08 am
by mudzilla
Andrew1706 wrote:That's a 1HZ which is 4.2 6 cyl NA diesel.
Factory torque is 270nm, with 10psi of boost and gas injection the increase of 58.9% equals 430nm.
Australian 4WD Action #123 page #97
The gas inmproved performance 11.9% na and 19% turboed .. NOT 58.9 %
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:29 am
by KiwiBacon
vvega wrote:KiwiBacon wrote:Okay I'll admit I screwed that up.
i still dont know how you can strut your stuff after you made such a monumental fuckup like that
seriously
there is no going back
i have as you put it a half degree .. and you say you have a degree in something ... honestly how can you even claim that now
some guy your called a dumarse know nothing ####
rubbish and bellitled has just ... made you look like a twat and proven you are over your head
sorry just reminding you that why i have no faith now in you ability to do any testing.. i found this out after the test
had i of realised you havent got the quals you claim to have i woudlnt had even entertained the though
you fooled me and you fooled many people with your suposed know how
the fact you didnt and still dont have the fundimentals
that is why i dont trust the test because you have proven to be incompotent ...
its your own fault you dont inspire confidance
and reallt the fact was if it was a proper test you woudl have turned the gass off then increased it tillknocing.. decreased it then talken the measurement and worked it out from there
thats how you do it impartially
you set out for failure and as soon as you got falure.. that was all you needed
its a flawed test
and frankly you dont know what your doing
reality is this threed has been abotu the same thing all th way though
your doing it wrong and your ... doing it wrong
nothings changed and all your done is proved that
now you have about 20 people thinking your a idiot ... what a success you are
oh and before you start rattling rubbish abotu my speelling like you did last time
.. least i know what my words mean and what i know is real
eveidently .. this is one of those cases that knowlage is far more important than thinking you know some big words :d
i admit it .. i am a fool to have belive you are compitent and im a fool to have tried to educate you
for that i apoligise to the good people of ore for having to read so many pages of wasted time
nighty night
It appears explaining a simple experiment is beyond some people. They get all frustrated and post page after page of personal attacks.
Nice selective quoting too.
Can you explain why a diesel engine is shown detonating with 0.4% lpg fumigation?
It appears you can't (hence the barrage of insults). It has nothing to do with flash point, that happens in the bottle, not the engine.
I understand the flammability limits perfectly. You're saying (repeatedly) that you can't autoignite below those limits. Which means you have absolutely no explanation for the behaviour shown in that video.
You could have run your own experiment dozens of times in the time you've spent typing insults here. Priorities I guess.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:32 am
by KiwiBacon
mudzilla wrote:Andrew1706 wrote:That's a 1HZ which is 4.2 6 cyl NA diesel.
Factory torque is 270nm, with 10psi of boost and gas injection the increase of 58.9% equals 430nm.
Australian 4WD Action #123 page #97
The gas inmproved performance 11.9% na and 19% turboed .. NOT 58.9 %
Funnily enough, the 430Nm they got from the turbo and gas injection is still less than toyotas diesel only 1HD-FTE.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:10 am
by Steve_t647
http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Vehicleshttp://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Technical"The system does not allow LPG into the engine at idle and is programmed to limit the amount of gas introduced at maximum load to prevent over-fuelling. The system shuts off gas flow when the brakes are applied or the driver’s foot comes off the accelerator."
"Engine operating temperatures are not increased by running this system. Exhaust gas temperatures are reduced, since there is no longer fuel being burnt in the exhaust system."
"Since LPG is a clean burning gas it does not leave soot behind. This is why the engine and oil stay cleaner for longer. With the Diesel/Gas system cleanliness is achieved slightly differently. The gas ... encouraging a more complete diesel combustion."
LPG burns faster than diesel so the engine should not be fumigated at idle (slow rpm) an LPG fumigated diesel is also more responsive and rev's more easily because of the fast burning fuel
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:15 am
by KiwiBacon
Steve_t647 wrote:http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Vehicleshttp://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/default.aspx?ID=Technical"The system does not allow LPG into the engine at idle and is programmed to limit the amount of gas introduced at maximum load to prevent over-fuelling. The system shuts off gas flow when the brakes are applied or the driver’s foot comes off the accelerator."
"Engine operating temperatures are not increased by running this system. Exhaust gas temperatures are reduced, since there is no longer fuel being burnt in the exhaust system."
"Since LPG is a clean burning gas it does not leave soot behind. This is why the engine and oil stay cleaner for longer. With the Diesel/Gas system cleanliness is achieved slightly differently. The gas ... encouraging a more complete diesel combustion."
LPG burns faster than diesel so the engine should not be fumigated at idle (slow rpm) an LPG fumigated diesel is also more responsive and rev's more easily because of the fast burning fuel
Do they give away any fumigation rates?
You can reduce EGT if you're evaporating lpg and burning that in place of diesel, (i.e. not adding power). If you're putting in more fuel to get more power, then higher EGT is always the result in a diesel.
Interestingly I've found two people who's diesel engines don't burn lpg at idle (they can smell it unburnt in the exhaust), but haven't heard yet what engine configuration that was.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:40 am
by vvega
......
KiwiBacon wrote:Okay I'll admit I screwed that up.
Re: fume'ing
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:43 am
by vvega
KiwiBacon wrote:Okay I'll admit I screwed that up.