Offroad-Express

Bulletproof wrote:This is a small video clip from 1998 showing 2 cruisers both with double diff locks trying to get up a very common obstacle and then my old hilux showing how easy it is.

We all had SATs so it was not the tyres.

In those days I still had an old 2.4 so it was not power. Over the years we have all modified our trucks but same thing keeps getting repeated every trip.
So you can see why I stick to my comments about a long wheel base.



Cheers Richard

in that footage you can see quite clearly that the two cruisers have no grip in the front at all, presumably because of the wheelbase being just the wrong length, but i reckon something even smaller, like a vitara would have smoked that bank as easily as the hilux...plus im not sure but it looks like you chose a different line to the cruisers, it looks like you hit the bank on a bit more of an angle, and didnt hit that hole that seemed to catch the passenger side rear wheel on the cruisers... maybe it was a case of a better line as well?
it certainly illustrates how in that situation a certain wheelbase is handicapped over another one.

keep the videos coming dude, this is great...

Anyone want to kick up a(nother) petrol vs diesel thread?

KiwiBacon wrote:Anyone want to kick up a(nother) petrol vs diesel thread?

it seems this was debated a very long time ago but not for long.................

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=299&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=petrol+vs+diesel


could move the deabte over to there and get it going again

Of course that type of obstacle is going to show up SWB trucks, you can see just how close both of those cruisers chassis rails were to the bank.

Also it seems the driver of the yellow cruiser backed off before the fun even started? When the hilux went up you had the power on all the time.

KiwiBacon wrote:

yorick wrote:That's a meaningless statement. Manufacturers always put in bigger diesels to retain similar performance, which just strengthens my argument.

Not true at all.
Hilux, 3 litre diesel vs 4 litre petrol.
Navara/pathfinder, 2.5 litre diesel, 4 litre petrol.

Why? Because that's how big the petrols need to be to get similar torque.

Heh, good try at imaginative extrapolation. No, in fact the petrol ones are aimed at the market that wants power and performance, the diesels at the economy market. The reason the two motors share the same chassis is more likely weight. The diesel is heavier than the petrol, therefore the chassis needs minimal modification to spring rates and so forth because the bigger petrol motor is probably about the same weight.

yorick wrote:Um that's a VN spec, 20 years old. They were/are shit I agree, a VR or VT Ecotec is a different barrel of monkeys and they are 305 nm. Tell you what to make it fair, I'll match your 3.9 turbo motor against a supercharged 3.8 VT ... just to be fair.

No problem, if the petrol stations are more than 400km apart, you'd be walking.

Actually thats debatable .

I didn't find anything on the 2.3 kompressor. But the 2 litre SLK200 kompressor engine only does 120kw and 240Nm.
BMW's 2 litre 120d pumps out 130kw and 350Nm.

The SLK200 is an 1800 and have you seen the torque curve on the BMW and on the 230 Kompressor let me enlighten you. 2.3 litre 145 kw 280 Nm of torque.... and yes If I could lay hands on one it would go in my G-wagen just for the hell of it.

Really speaking I don't give a tinkers one way or the other, whatever suits best for the application. And btw 3 of my 4 four wheelers are diesels, the only petrol is the Lada... mind you they're all SWB

yorick wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

yorick wrote:That's a meaningless statement. Manufacturers always put in bigger diesels to retain similar performance, which just strengthens my argument.

Not true at all.
Hilux, 3 litre diesel vs 4 litre petrol.
Navara/pathfinder, 2.5 litre diesel, 4 litre petrol.

Why? Because that's how big the petrols need to be to get similar torque.

Heh, good try at imaginative extrapolation. No, in fact the petrol ones are aimed at the market that wants power and performance, the diesels at the economy market. The reason the two motors share the same chassis is more likely weight. The diesel is heavier than the petrol, therefore the chassis needs minimal modification to spring rates and so forth because the bigger petrol motor is probably about the same weight.

yorick wrote:Um that's a VN spec, 20 years old. They were/are shit I agree, a VR or VT Ecotec is a different barrel of monkeys and they are 305 nm. Tell you what to make it fair, I'll match your 3.9 turbo motor against a supercharged 3.8 VT ... just to be fair.

No problem, if the petrol stations are more than 400km apart, you'd be walking.

Actually thats debatable .

I didn't find anything on the 2.3 kompressor. But the 2 litre SLK200 kompressor engine only does 120kw and 240Nm.
BMW's 2 litre 120d pumps out 130kw and 350Nm.

The SLK200 is an 1800 and have you seen the torque curve on the BMW and on the 230 Kompressor let me enlighten you. 2.3 litre 145 kw 280 Nm of torque.... and yes If I could lay hands on one it would go in my G-wagen just for the hell of it.

Really speaking I don't give a tinkers one way or the other, whatever suits best for the application. And btw 3 of my 4 four wheelers are diesels, the only petrol is the Lada... mind you they're all SWB

This off topic here and I think this stuff is better dicussed in the thread Skid Mentioned

KiwiBacon wrote:
Anyone want to kick up a(nother) petrol vs diesel thread?


it seems this was debated a very long time ago but not for long.................

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=299&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=petrol+vs+diesel

Bulletproof wrote:This is a small video clip from 1998 showing 2 cruisers both with double diff locks trying to get up a very common obstacle and then my old hilux showing how easy it is.

We all had SATs so it was not the tyres.

In those days I still had an old 2.4 so it was not power. Over the years we have all modified our trucks but same thing keeps getting repeated every trip.
So you can see why I stick to my comments about a long wheel base.

Cheers Richard

As I said earlier, LWB climbing a defined track often has the advantage. Your advantage on this particular thing had to do with a number of things including your lack of power. The Lux didn't wheel stand or break traction as quickly as the more powerful cruisers and you had a better line so not really definitive. But as I said I have no argument that LWB is better in certain circumstances, but for mine I'll stick with SWB because in my case 9 out of 10 times the SWB is better,

yorick wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:This is a small video clip from 1998 showing 2 cruisers both with double diff locks trying to get up a very common obstacle and then my old hilux showing how easy it is.

We all had SATs so it was not the tyres.

In those days I still had an old 2.4 so it was not power. Over the years we have all modified our trucks but same thing keeps getting repeated every trip.
So you can see why I stick to my comments about a long wheel base.

Cheers Richard

As I said earlier, LWB climbing a defined track often has the advantage. Your advantage on this particular thing had to do with a number of things including your lack of power. The Lux didn't wheel stand or break traction as quickly as the more powerful cruisers and you had a better line so not really definitive. But as I said I have no argument that LWB is better in certain circumstances, but for mine I'll stick with SWB because in my case 9 out of 10 times the SWB is better,

How about listing the the circumstances where a short is better. And how do your short specs ,approach and departure angle etc compare to my hihux on page 18.

Cheers Richard

Bulletproof wrote:

yorick wrote:As I said earlier, LWB climbing a defined track often has the advantage. Your advantage on this particular thing had to do with a number of things including your lack of power. The Lux didn't wheel stand or break traction as quickly as the more powerful cruisers and you had a better line so not really definitive. But as I said I have no argument that LWB is better in certain circumstances, but for mine I'll stick with SWB because in my case 9 out of 10 times the SWB is better,

How about listing the the circumstances where a short is better. And how do you short specs ,approach and departure angle etc compare to my hihux on page 18.

All you have to do is look

Paj build thread Oh before you sling the shit about Pajeros, it is very capable even though it has just open diffs. Yours may have cost $50k, this little beast is a barrel of fun for under 3k including tyres. And that vid of your lux coming down the hill and doing a nose stand, the SWB Paj would have handled that very gently without running away and without doing an arse up and you can check it out doing it's thing here: up on Tommos

Cheers Richard

Much of what I've noticed in your examples actually comes down to a North vs South thing. You have wide braided rock bottom rivers. Our rivers are different. if you drive like you do into the Waihou River near me you wouldn't come out. The river may be only 30 mteres wide but it will be 5 metres deep right at the edge... except on corners, then it'll be on the 5 m outside. The creeks and water ways are deep and steep, mudstone and pumice. your hilux would hang up on it's arse or probably flop on it's side more often than not.

Look I'm sure it's a very capable wagon, Wayne (Mudzilla) has a single cab one which is brilliant, but it's low and all business and I quote him from an earlier message: "You can never have the perfect wheelbase". If long wheelbase was all the answer we'd all drive Unimogs

Frankly normally I can't be buggered with this sort of pointless discussion but you made a few absolute statements:
"No Trials Drivers have any Balls"
"On Petrol hill (Or insert whatever favourite spot) noone else did it because they didn't have Bulletproof's balls"
and the famous
"9 out 10 times LWB is better than SWB" and
"Diesels always have more torque than Petrol motors."

So I must admit I understood Skids reaction to a degree. I'm not disparaging the build, it looks great and I'm sure many will get something out of it, but it's not something I would do. But then that's OK it seems a possibility that I'm not a Real four wheeler and I have no balls.

So I couldn't help myself.

Cheers
Yo

I've been so tempted tonight to put my 2c worth in,, but I've had 2meany Bourbans to B bothered,, Bring your trucks to Thompsons and be ready to go through to Katikati and back,, Monstr,,Help,,Monstr,,You there Monstr !!!! oh shit,,what have I said.........Anyway,,Some like G wagons, Some Like Pigjeros, Some like jeeps, thank Fuk for Intelegent Design for Toyotas. Gnite.

A lot of people with hiluxs move their axles forward to fit bigger wheels which means the suspension and steering are altered.

I simply hacked into the body with an angle grinder and hammered the body in and mig welded it up again. This gained 70mm and enough to run 35x12.5 tyres

Before the hack



After the Hack



Cheer Richard

mudzilla wrote:I've been so tempted tonight to put my 2c worth in,, but I've had 2meany Bourbans to B bothered,, Bring your trucks to Thompsons and be ready to go through to Katikati and back,, Monstr,,Help,,Monstr,,You there Monstr !!!! oh shit,,what have I said.........Anyway,,Some like G wagons, Some Like Pigjeros, Some like jeeps, thank Fuk for Intelegent Design for Toyotas. Gnite.

cu there tomorrow.... ive been told we'll wont get up the tearoha side even....

the main reason I put rears up front was to get a better aproch angle for the rocks as when I have the 37's on my wheels are about 50mm back from the front of my rig.

cheers
chopper

looking at that pic did you get your front door fixed

Chopper01 wrote:the main reason I put rears up front was to get a better aproch angle for the rocks as when I have the 37's on my wheels are about 50mm back from the front of my rig.

cheers
chopper

looking at that pic did you get your front door fixed

Hi Chopper
Your approach angle must be awesome.To climb rocks you would need it, but an angle like that would be an advantage for any 4 wheel driving.
As well as cutting the body. When I fitted the nissan suspension I moved the axle forward an inch so I think I could run 37s as well in the front. To fit them on the rear I would have to take the angle grinder to the body in front of the rear wheel.

The drivers door was fixed quite easily. Fitzy's brother John who is a panel beater said , just put a socket by the hinge and close the door and it worked a treat.

Cheers Richard

you asked for more clips

A couple more comparisons from 2007



Cheers Richard

where abouts is that track? looks like fun.

nstg8a wrote:where abouts is that track? looks like fun.

It is an old logging track on the West Coast.
It heads north back toward the Clarke off the Ahaura to Kopara Rd. We haven't got to the end of it yet

Richard

Did some wheelin this weekend, on one particular bit my lux with about 106in wheel base easily negotiated a nasty corner in muddy drain whereas a highly modified landy at 88in didnt have a shit show and on several occasions this proved to be the case on hill climbs as well.

Bulletproof wrote:It heads north back toward the Clarke off the Ahaura to Kopara Rd. We haven't got to the end of it yet

how do you know where it goes if you havnt finished it?

A couple more comparisons from 1998 on private tracks of the West coast



Richard

Bulletproof wrote:

nstg8a wrote:where abouts is that track? looks like fun.

It is an old logging track on the West Coast.
It heads north back toward the Clarke off the Ahaura to Kopara Rd. We haven't got to the end of it yet

Richard

I went in there at Xmas with Al, got to an old broken bridge...and looked a little further., lots of gorse from there on tho

cool__bananas wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:It heads north back toward the Clarke off the Ahaura to Kopara Rd. We haven't got to the end of it yet

how do you know where it goes if you havnt finished it?

He says thats where it heads, not thats where it goes

hosehustler wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:

nstg8a wrote:where abouts is that track? looks like fun.

It is an old logging track on the West Coast.
It heads north back toward the Clarke off the Ahaura to Kopara Rd. We haven't got to the end of it yet

Richard

I went in there at Xmas with Al, got to an old broken bridge...and looked a little further., lots of gorse from there on tho

Hi Tim
The previous video was that area you went in with Al

The Last one where the cruiser rolled is off perseverance Rd, north of Reefton and the bank is off Thompsons Rd at Mawheraiti.
They are both on private land locked off. When we are in Reefton sometime I could probably get access.

Cheers Tim Richard

Yeah I meant the first vid, wonder how all these tracks over there have been damaged by snow, going to Kopara in a couple of weeks so will find out.
sounds good for the access at Mawheraiti, I'm always keen on the coast wheeling, it's about all I do nowdays....quality not quantity

Still another comparison in 2000



Richard

haha, that is classic... hope the tread lightly brigade dont see that one

all this footage of 40s going nowhere makes me want one, they look like a hoot

Tread lightly? they all used the same location so minimised or localised any damage and there would be less damage there that than putting a hut somewhere and serviceing it.

Pity we are in such a PC world now because of so few. Perhaps the Green and PC people should look where the tourists look, try a rest stop with no toilet and wander into the bush we are far more respectful for where and how we drive so we can come back the harder you drive the more likley somethings going to break, as soon as something breaks well the trip is all about getting back.

Sorry rant over

Another Comparison xmas 2006



Cheers Richard

Xmas 2006 again



Since then the diff ratios of the handbag have gone from 4.3 to 4.88 and last Xmas Andi became first person to drive out of little Totara

Richard

your yr2000 video is not ellegible because the first car does not appear to have lockers and your one car does, so you cant say it was the wheel base that got you to the top, it was advanced equipment