lifts laws to be inforced

Mudde1 · Post by **Mudde1** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:03 pm

[quote="g....oh, hold on, it's only for when you add a roll cage which may actually INCREASE safety, that you need to do that :lol:

[/quote]
Again, not correct, there are a range of things that you can nott do to a vehicle without a Authority card from Motor sport NZ.

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:13 pm

Yes, but how many of those have the potential to increase safety?

The LTSA seem to pick on the easy targets ie 4wds, rather than tackle the bigger problem, such as overpowered vehicles on the roads

mikee · Post by **mikee** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:15 pm

So some other form of motor sport has an authority card and gains revenue from it so why cant we. :evil:

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:18 pm

mikee wrote:So some other form of motor sport has an authority card and gains revenue from it so why cant we.

Do you not already from affiliated club members?

Bulletproof · Post by **Bulletproof** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:38 pm

The NZFWDA trying to gain control over peoples lives like this only make me hate them all the more. They have no right

I am glad that I don't belong to any club any more because I am not accountable to anyone anymore so I can say what I like and do what I like and go where I like because of maintaining good relationships with landowners.

I am also glad that I am completely certified before all this latest bullshit.

Power and Money are stuffing it for everyone.

Cheers Richard

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:07 pm

I personally have nothing against the NZ4WDA, these changes won't affect me, and if I go over 4" in the future, it'll be easy enough for me to pay the club fees and get my card without attending trips.

I just can't personally see the need for the change. If people have vehicles lifted over 4" and do little or no 4wding, who cares? Do all owners of modified WRX's have to prove they rally or race?

How many vehicles lifted over 4" have been in accidents purely caused by their height? Will having a card reduce this number, and if not, why introduce it? What does "proving" the use of the vehicle off road achieve?

If not for safety reasons, it must be financial reasons?

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:43 pm

I wonder if you change the Class of your 4wd to MC would it make any difference.
For those that dont know class MC is "4 Wheel Drive"

IE
A passenger vehicle, designed with special features for off-road operation, that has not more than nine seating positions (including the driver's seating position), and that:

has four-wheel drive; and
has at least four of the following characteristics when the vehicle is unladen on a level surface and the front wheels are parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal centre-line and the tyres are inflated to the vehicle manufacturer's recommended pressure:
an approach angle of not less than 28 degrees;
a breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees;
a departure angle of not less than 20 degrees;
a running clearance of not less than 200mm;
a front-axle clearance, rear-axle clearance or suspension clearance of not less than 175mm.

LOLYF · Post by **LOLYF** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:54 pm

tallsam66 wrote:I wonder if you change the Class of your 4wd to MC would it make any difference.
For those that dont know class MC is "4 Wheel Drive"

IE
A passenger vehicle, designed with special features for off-road operation, that has not more than nine seating positions (including the driver's seating position), and that:

has four-wheel drive; and
has at least four of the following characteristics when the vehicle is unladen on a level surface and the front wheels are parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal centre-line and the tyres are inflated to the vehicle manufacturer's recommended pressure:
an approach angle of not less than 28 degrees;
a breakover angle of not less than 14 degrees;
a departure angle of not less than 20 degrees;
a running clearance of not less than 200mm;
a front-axle clearance, rear-axle clearance or suspension clearance of not less than 175mm.

If it's a 4wd it's already MC class, what are you trying to achieve by changing it?....(to what it already is)

OVERSZ · Post by **OVERSZ** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:11 pm

I have had a quick look through this Forum and a look at NZ4WD Website. I cant find any info other than in this forum.

Can someone give me the links to this subject on LTSA or NZ4WD Assoc.

Cheers

Graham

SamLogan · Post by **SamLogan** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Twodiffs wrote:Wasn't pulled over because it was a lifted 4wd DaveM, my other half didn't realise the speed had snuck up coming off a hill. They had a nice shiny standard Mistral pulled over as well.

There's a swb cruiser, rugger or similar that frequents Hornby during the week, saw it round a corner off Blenheim Road onto the Curletts road motorway yesterday. At a guess it's on 33's minimum, gotta be 4-6 inches susp lift, dunno bout body lift but he took the bend very very carefully. Actually looks friggin ridiculous to be honest and is an accident waiting to happen if he has to brake and swerve suddenly...even a good nor wester would blow it over i reckon. That is the safety aspect that new lift laws etc will help contain.

Sorry to join in late but is this the truck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bqfWnLqGG4

There have been some good points discussed by both parties but i have to agree with dieselboy on this. What makes a truck any safer by having the weetbix licence as well as a cert + wof. Sure there are a lot of trucks that a modified by monkeys but wof and certs are meant to stop that.

Instead of changing the rules because they are "NOT WORKING" how about look at why they are not working. Then maybe you might realise that the police officer who pulled me over for a random breath test had no idea what he was looking at and only asked if i had a cert. He had no interest at actually checking.

If modified 4wd's are such a problem why are the cops taking such a "who gives a crap" attitude to it. They are the people who are patrolling the streets and should be looking out for trucks that look dodgy. I have a girlfriend who isn't at all into cars and can spot the dodgy ones from the safe. Its really not that hard.

Sam

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:00 am

jammysammy wrote: I have a girlfriend who isn't at all into cars and can spot the dodgy ones from the safe. Its really not that hard.
Sam

And she can tell by looking at them? She really should work for the LTSA then.
Seriously, if you know nothing about 4wds and think you can tell whats safe and what isn't by looking at it, you are dreaming.

There are plenty out there that may "look" dodgy to the untrained eye, but could be safe, and same goes the other way.

SamLogan · Post by **SamLogan** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:19 am

i agree with your last statement, but some of the ones you see driving around Christchurch at the moment defy imagination in how they manage to pass wof's or certs. examples are wheels sticking way too far out (illegal), trucks that are lifted so high they would probably tip (like the video i posted). My point is how on earth can cops drive past these guys when modified trucks are now "such a problem" and not even blink an eyelid. Why do we need all this other bs when they aren't even patrolling like they should be the mods people are doing. I would much rather get pulled over every once and a while then have to be in a club for a year + pay membership to the NZ4WDA just to drive my daily drive which will soon be SAS'd. What about when i want to upgrade tyre size in the near future? i will have to, just for running slightly larger tyres, get one of these bs licences. Its just people wanting to get a slice of the pie. I am sure Tony does a good job but they must be able to come up with a better idea than this.

Sam

rotordogg · Post by **rotordogg** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:45 am

jammysammy wrote:...What about when i want to upgrade tyre size in the near future?...

Sam

Just make sure you join a club that doesn't have a tyre size limit too!! :lol:

lilpigzuk · Post by **lilpigzuk** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:57 am

jammysammy wrote:Sorry to join in late but is this the truck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bqfWnLqGG4

Do we have a fail thread :?:

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:20 pm

jammysammy wrote:i agree with your last statement, but some of the ones you see driving around Christchurch at the moment defy imagination in how they manage to pass wof's or certs. examples are wheels sticking way too far out (illegal), trucks that are lifted so high they would probably tip (like the video i posted). My point is how on earth can cops drive past these guys when modified trucks are now "such a problem" and not even blink an eyelid. Why do we need all this other bs when they aren't even patrolling like they should be the mods people are doing. I would much rather get pulled over every once and a while then have to be in a club for a year + pay membership to the NZ4WDA just to drive my daily drive which will soon be SAS'd. What about when i want to upgrade tyre size in the near future? i will have to, just for running slightly larger tyres, get one of these bs licences. Its just people wanting to get a slice of the pie. I am sure Tony does a good job but they must be able to come up with a better idea than this.

Sam

I agree with the dodgey height of some vehicles, but realistically, what can the police do? The only time they can really target 4wds is if they have someone from the LTSA etc on board, because the Police would have no idea if the truck is legal just because it has a cert plate.

It all starts well before the involvement of Police, the owners need to stop driving illegal crap on the road, wof issuers need to stop issuing dodgey wofs, or understand the laws for mods, and certifiers need to get real with what they deem as safe.

I have passed a cert from a well used certifier in ChCh, only to fail a wof the next time it was due. After weeks of arguing, the LTSA sent someone to inspect the vehicle, and found it should NOT be certified. The issuer got a slap on the hand, and I got left with an illegal truck. They didn't even want to remove the cert plate

Twodiffs · Post by **Twodiffs** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:33 pm

jammysammy wrote:
Twodiffs wrote:Wasn't pulled over because it was a lifted 4wd DaveM, my other half didn't realise the speed had snuck up coming off a hill. They had a nice shiny standard Mistral pulled over as well.

There's a swb cruiser, rugger or similar that frequents Hornby during the week, saw it round a corner off Blenheim Road onto the Curletts road motorway yesterday. At a guess it's on 33's minimum, gotta be 4-6 inches susp lift, dunno bout body lift but he took the bend very very carefully. Actually looks friggin ridiculous to be honest and is an accident waiting to happen if he has to brake and swerve suddenly...even a good nor wester would blow it over i reckon. That is the safety aspect that new lift laws etc will help contain.

Sorry to join in late but is this the truck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bqfWnLqGG4

There have been some good points discussed by both parties but i have to agree with dieselboy on this. What makes a truck any safer by having the weetbix licence as well as a cert + wof. Sure there are a lot of trucks that a modified by monkeys but wof and certs are meant to stop that.

Instead of changing the rules because they are "NOT WORKING" how about look at why they are not working. Then maybe you might realise that the police officer who pulled me over for a random breath test had no idea what he was looking at and only asked if i had a cert. He had no interest at actually checking.

If modified 4wd's are such a problem why are the cops taking such a "who gives a crap" attitude to it. They are the people who are patrolling the streets and should be looking out for trucks that look dodgy. I have a girlfriend who isn't at all into cars and can spot the dodgy ones from the safe. Its really not that hard.

Sam

Unable to say from that vid, it's not specific enough. If I did know I would not divulge it on any forum.

SamLogan · Post by **SamLogan** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:09 pm

Thats fair enough. I just came across this video and thought i may have been the one

Sam

getsum · Post by **getsum** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:54 pm

ok so after reading 6 pages of keyboard screaming.
i cannot figure out where my truck falls into this equation...

after looking closely at my front axle angles my truck isnt lifted.
but has good height allready..

i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

will this need a cert?
why would i need an authority card to go hunting and general days trips offroad?? join a club? dont think theres any on the west coast are there?
cert? pft half the guys doing the certs put cert plates on unsafe cars and reject others...

lincooln · Post by **lincooln** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:07 pm

all body lifts needs certification

suspension lifts over 50mm needs certification

Mudde1 · Post by **Mudde1** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:24 pm

getsum wrote:ok so after reading 6 pages of keyboard screaming.
i cannot figure out where my truck falls into this equation...

after looking closely at my front axle angles my truck isnt lifted.
but has good height allready..

i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

will this need a cert?
why would i need an authority card to go hunting and general days trips offroad?? join a club? dont think theres any on the west coast are there?
cert? pft half the guys doing the certs put cert plates on unsafe cars and reject others...

All body lifts will need a cert. you wont require a Authority card for a moderate suspension lift. only extreme lifts will require an authority card. Probably the closest club to you is Otago Recreational 4WD Group,P.O.Box 7153 Dunedin 9040
http://www.or4g.org.nz/. You could always start a club on the west coast and affiliate to NZFWDA.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:19 am

getsum wrote:i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

All body lifts need a cert today, providing you get it done before the new laws thats all you need.

getsum · Post by **getsum** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:59 am

so if i did it today i wont need a cert??
when does all this come into effect or is it allready in??

dont have time to start a club.....

wjw · Post by **wjw** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:53 am

getsum wrote:so if i did it today i wont need a cert??
when does all this come into effect or is it allready in??

dont have time to start a club.....

You will need a cert today for a body lift.

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:02 am

getsum wrote:i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

will this need a cert?

getsum wrote:so if i did it today i wont need a cert??

go back and see your optician mate coz theres something wrong with your reading glasses?

getsum · Post by **getsum** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:52 am

yup misread it..my bad...

cert system is a total crock tbh..ive seen many vehicles that should not have been given a cert..
we had a car come in that had just got a cert on it,and we failed it on a wof as it was unsafe...

Twodiffs · Post by **Twodiffs** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:06 pm

Mudde1 wrote:
getsum wrote:ok so after reading 6 pages of keyboard screaming.
i cannot figure out where my truck falls into this equation...

after looking closely at my front axle angles my truck isnt lifted.
but has good height allready..

i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

will this need a cert?
why would i need an authority card to go hunting and general days trips offroad?? join a club? dont think theres any on the west coast are there?
cert? pft half the guys doing the certs put cert plates on unsafe cars and reject others...

All body lifts will need a cert. you wont require a Authority card for a moderate suspension lift. only extreme lifts will require an authority card. Probably the closest club to you is Otago Recreational 4WD Group,P.O.Box 7153 Dunedin 9040
http://www.or4g.org.nz/. You could always start a club on the west coast and affiliate to NZFWDA.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

Or not affiliate to NZFWDA and contact the Buller club in Westport, there's a couple of their members on here.

GotFlex · Post by **GotFlex** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:55 pm

so i cant be bothered ready 19 pages, but i get the general idea, its probably been said already but who in the club will be giving the authority card out? im all for certs but this authority shit is stupid, based on my dealings with cert and 4x4 clubs in HB i doubt they would pass me off

KIWI_TERRANO · Post by **KIWI_TERRANO** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:08 pm

getsum wrote:
ok so after reading 6 pages of keyboard screaming.
i cannot figure out where my truck falls into this equation...

after looking closely at my front axle angles my truck isnt lifted.
but has good height allready..

i do plan to do a 50mm body lift and run 33s..

will this need a cert?
why would i need an authority card to go hunting and general days trips offroad?? join a club? dont think theres any on the west coast are there?
cert? pft half the guys doing the certs put cert plates on unsafe cars and reject others...

All body lifts will need a cert. you wont require a Authority card for a moderate suspension lift. only extreme lifts will require an authority card. Probably the closest club to you is Otago Recreational 4WD Group,P.O.Box 7153 Dunedin 9040
http://www.or4g.org.nz/. You could always start a club on the west coast and affiliate to NZFWDA.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

JESUS Tony you dont have any idea of the south island do you!

Wonder why people down here join comineded ay!

sibainmud · Post by **sibainmud** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:27 pm

GotFlex wrote:so i cant be bothered reading 19 pages, but i get the general idea, its probably been said already but who in the club will be giving the authority card out?

Agree 20 pages way too much for me to read with my short attention span :lol:

Not wanting to throw fuel on the fire, but this got me thinking....
So, as I'm the president of a NZFWDA affiliated club, can I sign off my own card?
me thinks this maybe one of the holes in the system.

One day soon I'll read all the posts here, but may take me a few days to complete :roll:

Cheers,

Sketchy_Racer · Post by **Sketchy_Racer** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:17 am

Mudde1 wrote:All body lifts will need a cert. you wont require a Authority card for a moderate suspension lift. only extreme lifts will require an authority card. Probably the closest club to you is Otago Recreational 4WD Group,P.O.Box 7153 Dunedin 9040
http://www.or4g.org.nz/. You could always start a club on the west coast and affiliate to NZFWDA.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

You are still yet to give us any clear reasoning for this bollocks "Authority card". As pointed out by others the only thing it achieves is a ticket clipping by your association.

As a qualified mechanical engineer well capable of safely modifying my vehicle who the fcuk are you, or any club captain etc without some sort of mechanical qualification, to tell me if I need/can/want to raise my vehicle above a certain point. That decision comes down to the certifier to decide if it is safe or not.

Again I raise the question about facts on the matter such as statistics of accidents caused by excessively raised vehicles, which I have suspicion don't exist and this whole thing is fed by some bureaucrat's drive because maybe the big bad 4x4 cut him off in traffic the other day.

Without facts your ideas have no credibility which is why you are experiencing such a resistance here. With enlightenment will come understanding and acceptance, humans do not like being told "Do what I say because I said so!"

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