A Class Vitara, POS.

[Weemsy]

hi heath,
thats right. pos to main starter lead and neg to earth on body
if you need any pages or info from the manual give me a shout and il scan them in and email to you.
weemsy

[Heath]

FECKING ELECTRICKERY!!!!!

swapped the orbital battery from my ute into the zuk and ... its too big (didnt measure first) to sit in the factory position. Now I will have to relocate it to the rear (was going to do that later on down the line). Still it was fully charged and will do for now.

Put fuel in and turned the key ... Nothing ... No whirring from the fuel pump, no click from the starter, nothing. Checked battery power. Checked earth. Both good. Maybe I had a faulty starter so I took it out and went to a sparky down the road (with my spare also) and got him to test them both. All good so back and reinstalled. Still nothing.

Mechanical problems I am sweet with but this auto sparky stuff just shits me.

I am using a 16V loom with 16V ECU and 16V engine. All plugs are sweet, no fuses are blown that I can see.

How do I check there is power to the starter motor? Any hints as to what or where I should be looking? I am not quite tearing my hair out but I am close, hell I even mowed the lawn so I didnt chuck a wobbly (at this rate all the outdoor jobs will get done and the truck will just sit there tormenting me).

Anyone here in Auckland that can recommend an inexpensive sparky on the shore that I could just take this to and get them to get it sorted? May as well get the ignition changed to an isolator key and a few switches on the centre console and battery relocated to the rear at the same time .

Heath

[Sadam_Husain]

There should be a heavy cable from the battery to the solanoid on the starter and a small wire that comes from the ign (starter) switch to energise and activate the solanoid when you start the vehicle.

Is the heavy cable live and the starter motor earthed properly and does the small wire come live when you turn the key to start?

[meatc]

Fuel pump should run for a few seconds when you first turn key to IGN to presurise the lines. It will then stop and start again when you go to START and will stay running as long as the engine is. This is assuming it is still controled by the ECU. Would have been from factory.

With no power there and no power to click the starter I would be starting with the earths and positive feeds to the key and ECU. Could be a Fusible link or one of the main fuses.

[Heath]

Cheers,

I checked the power to the starter and it has the same voltage as the battery,

Earths are good.

There was some corrosion on the small 12v line to the solenoid but still full power there.

I wonder if the loom I got may have a piece missing? I know it is unlikely as everything plugged together fine (some were a stretch and a real bitch to connect).

I wonder if the loom has a switch in the clutch area (as I have found a diagram with one on it. I dont remember conecting anything there but will look in the weekend.

I didnt expect to get this thing running smooth as silk (I am a realist) but I had expected to be able to at least turn it over.

The birdsnest of wires is just a little too daunting for me so I will give it another look at before I admit defeat and take it to a sparky. I dont want to give my tyre money to someone else but if it isnt running it isnt anything and the tyres I have will have to do for a while.

Heath

[Rotazuk]

How many wires did you conect on the loom , earths etc . If you have laid in the whole loom not much can go wrong I guess but bear in mind wire colours black/white are power not earth . Go figure .

[meatc]

Wiring Dia I have shows a Black/red strip wire as the signal from the starter. In the manual model it goes via a clutch switch and becomes black/yellow strip.

The Black/red that comes from the back of the key could be directed straight to the place the blk/yell goes onto the starter (hope that makes sense.) essentually by passes the clutch switch. You will probably find the switch is missing at the clutch pedal (will look sort of like brake light one) If you can find the plug just connect the two wires together. Means you dont have to have foot on clutch to start it.

If the loom you have is off a auto the Blk/red goes to a shift switch on the gear box and comes back out as the blk/yell so the same applies. I would find the Blk/red at the ignition barrell and make it go straight to the starter.

Hope that helps. I would scan the wiring diagram but is a pretty ratty copy in the hayes manual and I doubt my scanner is good enough to make it readable.

If the fuel pump isn't running at all there should be a Purple/black wire to it. It shoud come from relay control box which gets a signal from the ECU. You could run a wire straight to it from the key. Find the wire that is live when in the ign pos and start pos (there will be one) and tee into that. It looks like the only other place the power goes to from that box is the EGR stuff. I'm guessing that you have junked that. there is a few wires into and out of the relay box looks like only those two power supplys from it.

If those two dont fix it I would guess there is no power to the ECU and there are a few supplies to that and my wiring diagram is to hard to follow. You could try a search on the net and see if you can find a downloadable full facotry service manual. I found one for the CA18 I'm using and it has individual diagrams for each ecu circuit.

Electrics is just a matter of following the path it only flows in one direction just like water.

Hope some of that makes sense. If I was closer I would come have a look.

[Rotazuk]

Meatc - that part of the nissan manual is good after buchering the wiring in my zuk I pieced it all together one circuit at a time made it real easy .

Since the weather is going to be crap a beach trip is off on sat so can call around and have a look in the morning pref if you want . Should be able to sort it out . Hate to see you waste money that is needed for oter stuff .

Chris

[meatc]

Rota - I did the same. The guy I got my motor cut the loom. i stripped out all the extra stuff to, like fast idle stuff, cold start, aircon etc Doing same with gear box making it manual shift auto with 3 relays.

Heath- where in aucks are you? I am coming back through Aucks on way back from Vegas winch challenge late sunday might be able to stop in if ness.

[Rotazuk]

Sent you a pm Meatc , question on your auto , don't want to thread jack

I will print out a copy of the wiring diagram in A3 and can post it to you if I don't help out on sunday . Any idea if its an early or late 16v . Easy to read in A3 , thanks to rex for the printer and work for buying all new ink cartidages .

Chris

[skid]

FECKING ELECTRICKERY!!!!!



Anyone here in Auckland that can recommend an inexpensive sparky on the shore that I could just take this to and get them to get it sorted? May as well get the ignition changed to an isolator key and a few switches on the centre console and battery relocated to the rear at the same time .

Heath

post up a working bee at your place and see how many folks will come help

works for welly crew

could work for aucks crew as well

and could be a shit load cheaper option

[Heath]

Cheers for the hints guys,

I got under the bonnet after work and ran a mulit meter on the exciter wire (or what ever it is - the one to the solenoid) and there is no power there (there is 12 v to the starter and a good eath back). I ran a short wire from the battery to the starter and it turned over sweet.

The dash lights up with all the expected lights

Got dark and cold so I wasnt able to check for a spark and I am pretty sure there isnt any fuel flowing (no hum or anything from the tank).

I have no idea what vehicle this loom came from (Hitbiga any idea - man or auto?).



This is supposed to be a comp truck so easy fixing would be nice.

I installed the "new loom" and everything plugged into place where it looked to go. There were a lot of extra wires in the loom and I did start removing stuff like the lights, heaters, etc but stopped when I found wires that were doubling back and forwards and I decided I didnt have the knowledge to do this right.

Maybe this working bee idea is a good one. What is required to kick this off? Beer and Pizza? Is Sunday a good time for a working party?

I honestly don't know what use I will be as I am a mechanical type guy not a sparky and the loom just frustrates me. I have considered just running new wires/switches/etc to the starter, fuel pump, and what have you, but first off I would like to just get it running.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Heath

[Heath]

Heath- where in aucks are you? I am coming back through Aucks on way back from Vegas winch challenge late sunday might be able to stop in if ness.

I am In Glenfield (northshore)

[hitbiga]

manual loom, what transmission you running?

[Heath]

manual loom, what transmission you running?

5 speed manual. So that removes a possible problem, Cheers. Now I can remove the auto loom diagrams from my wad of papers.

[Rotazuk]

I can only come out on Saturday , other priorities on sunday . Pref on saturday morning but the afternoon could be done with some bribery . If you want me to come out let me know .

Chris

[Heath]

I can only come out on Saturday , other priorities on sunday . Pref on saturday morning but the afternoon could be done with some bribery . If you want me to come out let me know .

Chris

Saturday or when ever will suit me. If you are doing me a favour I will fit in with whatever suits you. Hell I'll cover your travelling costs too if you want (Glenfield is a little way from Takanini).

Cheers,

Heath
Ph 4413074

[Weemsy]

if you arent sure about wires i can trace the ones on mine and let you know, or take pics etc if you give me wire colours/location if that will help any???

[Heath]

Found a shite load of wiring diagrams on the net and printed them out at work today (a3 so I can read them) and pushed the POS into the shed (wifes car is out for the weekend) so I can work in the rain that this weekend is bringing.

I guess it is a slow process of elimination. Just need a push in the right direction to get started (thanks Chris and you others).

Heath

[Heath]

IT LIVES

Cheers Chris you are a legend.

The crux of the problem was a wire missing from the ignition circuit and the fuel pump feed was faulty.

A couple of little jobs to do but it runs (sounds noisy but in a good way without a muffler - too noisy to ride in for long though)

Thanks to all you guys who volunteered help in one way or another. When we have a Auckland get together I will sling you a few beers.

Heath (Smiling at last)

[Heath]

Okay the smile has dimmed a little.

Drove out of the garage and stalled it after a couple of minutes running. Have an intermitant fault now somewhere. Cranks over but doesnt start (well it has started once but only for a few seconds), not sure if it is spark related or fuel, but pump relay can be heard and so can pump. Maybe I have some water in my tank (will add meths) but when I pulled a spark lead off and held it to the block no spark. Checked power to the coil and its cool so maybe a faulty lead or coil.

But hey I "Drove it out of the garage" (nearly hit the fence cause the brake system is dry and needs fluid ... and I forgot).

When I get it running I will just leave it idling for as long as I can (before the neighbors complain) and change oil and water (doing a flush on both).

Have to wire in the fan (peice of cake) so I can have a little forced air cooling but the list is getting smaller.

Heath

[coxsy]

how about in the spring , at woodhill for a ore get together

[Heath]

Could be a go. At the Jeep park?

Might take me that long to be mobile but gives me a date to work to.

Heath

[Rotazuk]

Well that was short lived

Check none of the fuses are popped from me tutuing and that it does have gas in it , done that before . Try and borrow a timing light to check for spark of each lead , easier than pulling each plug etc .

Post what you try and we can keep throwing ideas at you .

Bugger , the rest of my day was not much better either .

Chris

[Weemsy]

hey heath,
i have a timing light and i will be in auckland wednesday morning for a bit. i can bring it with me if you will be about and see if the timing is set right with you. i had loads of problems with my timing not long back so its all still fresh in my mind.
pm me your phone number if you will be about and il come round.
weemsy

[Heath]

Cheers Weemsy

But a timing light is on my list of must have tools and now I have the perfect oportunity to get one. I mean how can the wife say no? I will be getting one tomorrow (sunday).

You up this way for business or picking up some ill begotten goods for a toy perhaps?

Long drive from Napiervegas, drive safe.

Chris,

Nah nothing you did. I backed it out fo the garage under its own steam and them switched it off when I saw and smelt smoke. Was coming off the extractors but thought I had better check. Then it wouldnt start. Didnt sound like the fuel relay clicked or pump ran so I checked the power to the rear connector - nothing so I checked the fuses, all good and then it clicked and ran (the pump). Turned over but wouldnt fire. Pulled a spark plug lead out and used another one to short to the block while cranking and no spark but power to the coil (and a good earth) so maybe the coil is having a hissy fit.

It has sat for a while so maybe everything is damp and needs a long run to warm up (may bung some meths in the fuel tank to get rid of any water also). If I can get it to run for 15 minutes without any hassles that would be great (I can do the oil and water change then) and will prove it does run. Maybe I need more fuel in the tank, I only put 10 litres in it, might get another 10 and remove that from the equation as a problem.

Still I got to tell the missus it ran and showed her. And she thought it would be xmas before it ran. HAA showed her.

Heath

Heath

[Weemsy]

hey heath,
im picking my lady's new car up from kaitaia on tuesday then staying in auckland tuesday night and heading home wednesday. flying up from napier to kaitaia.
i got my timing light from supercheap for $19. its a halogen light rather than the really bright led ones but was about a tenth of the price!!! its more than good enough though and i would recommend one for the price.
good luck with the beast and get some piccys posted

weemsy

[Dr_PC]

Nah nothing you did. I backed it out fo the garage under its own steam and them switched it off when I saw and smelt smoke. Pulled a spark plug lead out and used another one to short to the block while cranking and no spark but power to the coil (and a good earth) so maybe the coil is having a hissy fit.

No wires melted to the exhaust pipes at all.... A lot of new motors pulling a plug lead actually drops 2 cycls (pos neg earth returns) so no a great idea, get the timing light. We all kow you are bloody fuzzy so do it right ... You know you want to

[Heath]

Right armed with the timing light I set it up and turned the key... and it ran...for about 5 secs and then stopped. The timing light was flashing as it should and then stopped (and so did the engine). Fuel is good (relay clicking in and out and pump can be heard pressurising the system), was thinking water contamination but that wont explain the lack of spark.

I tested for power at the coil and have the 12v there. Tested earth and that is good. Tested power when cranking with all connected and have 12v at both wires into the coil (when cranking). This puzzled me but I assume that the power flows through the coil and I was just picking it up on the trip back to the batt.

Tested primary and secondary resistance in coil and it was between the haynes recomendations (right in the middle on primary and about 1/4 in the secondary).

Tested coil to dizzy wire and it came out at 0.7ish ohms (others I have here are around 1.2/4 ohms) so it seems right. Tried a differnt one just incase and no change.

Got me buggered, will run when it hasnt been touched for a while but when it has stopped it wont start. I assume that means the fuses are all good and links are all good also.

Will have to find a spare coil to eliminate that, but next step is the dizzy I guess.

My biggest question is why will it run and then stop? If the dizzy is faulty then it shouldnt run at all.

[Dr_PC]

take the fuel cap off and try it

Does the engine just die suddenly? If so, this indicates the fault is on the electrical side of things. If the engine splutters, tries to keep going and then dies, it is indicative of a fuel problem