Offroad-Express

All I can think is you must have a pretty powerfull 3b in that thing Damon

13BT that's why Throw away for V8 and get your self one!

But get this.

First time they snapped - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd, slight right hand turn, front wheel up a 40cm incline, under slight load, back wheel gets to it and snap.

Second time - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd, slight right hand turn down about a 40cm decline and then power along straight and snap.

Third time - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd, slight left hand turn, even power, front wheels up a steep bank to about waist height and back wheels start to climb and snap.

Something about Soft shingle and 2wd.

Does it seem to be the same side each time they break? And the fact you recently had rear wheel/bearing issues makes you wonder

Interesting you raise this Jase. Notice also that previously Heath said "Heard a rumor that a loose rear bearing can cause extra stress on the studs and dowels causing breakages also. Not sure of validity though."

Well today I rung yet another local 4wd specialist (the one on the receipt that originally installed the lockright) and he said that if a full floating cruiser snaps the axle studs its more likely than not to be a loose wheel bearing because the bearing is not taking the weight, so the axle itself takes all that weight - makes sense.

But this is interesting because I've had that hub off a few times now (as well as the other side) so the bearings have been in and out (as well as replaced) so re tightened a number of times yet this side has snapped three times and the other never has. If it is loose bearings, I obviously have a regular flaw in my tightening of this side but get it right on the other... or there is something stopping it tightening up properly.

I might have a bit of a look-see and take it from there - might be in touch Jase to take you up on that offer, although I'm going to be away from Thurs to Mon coming.

it shouldn't be breaking studs/dowels on loose shingle as there isn't enough traction/torque if its digging. i run 36'' simex with a locked diff and a tweaked 350 that i drive like i stole it with no broken studs/dowels YET.
is the axle bent?

350cruiser wrote:it shouldn't be breaking studs/dowels on loose shingle as there isn't enough traction/torque if its digging. i run 36'' simex with a locked diff and a tweaked 350 that i drive like i stole it with no broken studs/dowels YET.
is the axle bent?

I can't figure the loose shingle link with the wheel bearing idea. There is obviously an incredible force happening. That is where the locker theory makes sense in that it disengages and then re-engages while one wheel is spinning (more likely in soft shingle). But the locker seems to be working fine since the last 'specialist' fixed the previous 'specialists' repair of the first 'specialist'

But maybe the extra weight because of the loose bearing is weakening it and it is just coincidence that each time it was on shingle when it decided to go bang.

Just a while before it happened I was cross-rutted with roots etc and giving it heaps back and forward to get out with no damage...

I was thinking of replacing some parts, but where to start? maybe studs!

First time they snapped - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd,
Second time - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd,
Third time - Driving on soft shingle in 2wd
Something about Soft shingle and 2wd.


may be stay on dirt/clay and put in 4wd. sorry couldn't help myself. hahaha
but good luck trying to sort it.

im not trying to tell you how to 4x4, but how about trying to use 4wd instead of 2wd while out playing. it ill haft the load your poor studs take in 2wd

as it seems you break them only in 2wd

red-devil wrote:im not trying to tell you how to 4x4, but how about trying to use 4wd instead of 2wd while out playing. it ill haft the load your poor studs take in 2wd

as it seems you break them only in 2wd

Ha ha!
Yeah it certainly would be easier on things in 4wd to some extent, but its still no excuse for the poor cruiser! I mean there are plenty of cars that get around in 2wd without breaking things!!

Beer_Cruiser wrote:You got to have the dowels in the hub.The studs will just shear without the dowels.Ive done the left side 3 times and once on the right. The dowl holes were all flogged out. I would replace the studs and dowels then shear them all off as soon as I loaded them up with abit of right foot(5mins in to next trip)
In the end I moved the axel 1/4 of a turn redrilled new dowel holes in the hub and used the other end of the drill bit for the dowl.They have lasted a few trips now

When all this was happening to me I was running an auto locker
I now run open diffs

you just like to spray mud around, so this is the cost of ur fun.

red-devil wrote:you just like to spray mud around, so this is the cost of ur fun.

that may well be true but this is a toyota, they are built to play in the mud and should not be letting down the team. There are guys with 70's that are launching them on tarmac with rear lockers not breaking studs so there is a little more to it than just enjoying the mud..

pull the axle and put in lathe between centers, then clock up the axle face that bolts to the hub, if out you could take a light skim off the face to true it up to the centers,
also check the stub axle is not bent, a rough but quick check it to pull axle and use a torch and shine it down the tube, then using one eye, center yourself on the tube then focus on the center of the diff carrier, if it is reasonably bent you may see the alignment being out, crude but gives indication!!

Cheers

pedro

rangimotors wrote:

red-devil wrote:you just like to spray mud around, so this is the cost of ur fun.

that may well be true but this is a toyota, they are built to play in the mud and should not be letting down the team. There are guys with 70's that are launching them on tarmac with rear lockers not breaking studs so there is a little more to it than just enjoying the mud..

lol i know were your coming from. my vx still going strong.
pedro may be heading on the right path

Pedro wrote:pull the axle and put in lathe between centers, then clock up the axle face that bolts to the hub, if out you could take a light skim off the face to true it up to the centers,
also check the stub axle is not bent, a rough but quick check it to pull axle and use a torch and shine it down the tube, then using one eye, center yourself on the tube then focus on the center of the diff carrier, if it is reasonably bent you may see the alignment being out, crude but gives indication!!

Cheers

pedro

Good points Pedro
However with bent axles, I find it is better to first find the high points between centres in the lathe with the DTI (clock), mark them and then either press straight in a press, or pein straight using a ball pein hammer on the reverse side of the high point. This stretches the material on that side of the axle, thus straightening it. (the same technique is used to straighten crankshafts as it puts less stress into the crankshaft than pressing it.) A properly straightened axle won't be fighting the splines nor the outer bearing or flange assembly.
I had to straighten both axles in the rear of my Prado a year and a half ago. The first evidence of bends was the fretting marks on the inner splines and the worn outer seals. The DTI and the lathe confirmed it. Once the axle is straight then face the flange if needed.

In terms of the stub axle, I think you will get better results with a DTI. Whilst the eyeometer can be pretty bloody sharp, the facts are written on the dial.
This time you may need to use a finger DTI which lets you get into tight spacers.
Damn why isn't that working for me!!! Arh yes first find the right woman
Good luck
Johnno

Yep i tend to think that there is a bent something there be it drive axle or hub shaft. i beat my full floater with no problems. on saying this a mate with a 70 is also shearing his flange studs and he is running a manuel locker but running silver stone tyres. only breaks them with the locker in thou. so it all could come back to to much traction with maybe a hugh shock going thru to induce the innitaul break?
after all this i still think there may be something out of alingment somewhere
good luck

Did I miss the reply in the previous posts?
Is it always the same side breaking?

The studs are designed to hold the axle in the dowles are there top stop it twisting, put the axle and dowels in and see how far you can twist the axle with just the dowels in place (without the locker in there) if you get some movement this shock (when the locker locks to drive the wheel) could be the issue.

Adding additional dowels and or drilling out the existing holes to fit larger dowels it does sound like there is something wrong and if 3 people have looked at the locker I would look elsewhere.

bent axle? bent housing? Dowels allowing movement? if the dowels have some movement this could cause the outward pressure and twisting effect that snapped the studs.

had the same happen to me .stick to studs not bolts but uprate your dowels .install studs,tapers and nuts THEN overdrill your dowels to a bigger size .i used 3/8 ones(cause thats what i could get free) .use a sharp drill bit for the final hole and make it a snug fit .i know it works (had to pull my axle last week and was a mission to get out ,mind u i did have 6 x 3/8 dowels in there .but thats a bit overkill really)

Ok have done repairs and will see what happens now.

Replaced hub completely plus added extra dowels. Every thing tight and firm.

Time will tell.

Good news is that after last sunday doing a little light 4x4ing and today doing a pre run on the Gary/Okuku every thing is all good

Just doing my bit for the ORE site by clicking on some of the google add sites, I clicked on the Terrain Tamer ( Aussie site not sure of the spelling ), there was a video of them doing up Milo , the green 40# that features in the Aussie 4x4 Action Mag; in the video the Cruiser Guru was demonstrating how to change and adjust rear axle bearings on a fully floating rear hub, while explaining how to do the job he explained how incorrectly adjusted wheel bearings left to loose will mean that the axle will take the load and this will cause broken studs, he also has my style with a sledge hammer to seat the wheel bearings while adjusting. This is well worth a look.

YOU WON'T FIND THIS IN THE WORKSHOP MANUAL,

FITZY.
http://www.terraintamer.com/catalog/milorebuild.html

SMOKEY wrote: the Cruiser Guru was demonstrating how to change and adjust rear axle bearings on a fully floating rear hub, while explaining how to do the job he explained how incorrectly adjusted wheel bearings left to loose will mean that the axle will take the load and this will cause broken studs,

I havent ever broken axle studs with a loose rear wheelbearing on a full floater (yet) but I did shear the axle flange off at the hub once when I had a loose bearing... farking thing would have to break in the middle of a flooded river wouldnt it

Yep - good vid actually - That's what I put it down to in the end - have given my truck four days of off road treatment since last repair and still no snapped axle studs yet! (only managed a few hours last time) and the bearings were loose before, mystery as to why they didn't tighten but took some hammer work to get it sorted in the end. Hoping there are no more breakages down there now. Shame its not easy to check bearings without removing axle, I didn't realise that but makes obvious sense when he explains it.