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Re: ifs
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:33 pm
by vvilly
rokhound wrote:UBZ wrote:you put leaf springs in the front of a Coil sprung truck
I'd perfer my IFS . if your going to SAS a surf at least do it with coils.
Why?
If from a road going point of view I get it,(comfort wise etc)
but you can get as much (and sometimes more)artic from leaf springs as you can from coils.
And if anyone needs proof of that, they should remember suprasurfs last truck (and there are still plenty of people on here that were around then!)
The yanks seem to be ripping out the coils and leaf springing the whole truck, not saying that is right or wrong, but if you are just going to bang a front end in from a coiled playdoh (or similar) using factory arms and mounts then you are only going to get the equivelant travel (basically) that one of these rigs offers which is not great imo.
To link up a front end properly requires a lot of time studying geometry etc for your particualr purpose. But to bang a set of cart springs in is relatively easy and making a spring pack to work is pretty straight forward.
Each to their own though.
Grant i may be wrong but the likes of a ln 60 and 61 chassis. The front arch on the 60 chassis is alot bigger than the one on the 61 which would assist with upward travel
Re: ifs
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:02 pm
by UBZ
agree with you rok
if your after alot of flex easy-ish then leafs all round would be best.
but most 4wding in Nz doesn't really require uber flex if you have lockers and a winch.
put a Locker in the Rear of an IFS surf and they go most places but suffer badly with week front end componets.
standard Sas with radias arms gives you a bit more flex and a much more reliable front end.
a full linked front and rear set up would be awesome , but as you say the geometry is a killer. from what I've read on pirate , to get a 3 or 4 link setup to work in the front of a kzn chasis you need lots and lots of lift or move the engine to clear the pumpkin.
personally i just don't like a coil , leaf hash up. but each to thier own.
Re: ifs
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:20 pm
by SupraLux
KIWI_TERRANO wrote:also think about this
vx cruiser coil f and r
70 series flat deck coils front leaf rear,
if you can tell me a manifacture that does leaf in front and coil rear from factory i would be dumb founded, they do suspension set ups like it for a reason
And we build our trucks the way we do for a reason... mainly cost, effectiveness offroad and simplicity.
Oh, and VX cruisers are designed for use on road by rich people - not for 4WDing
...and coils in the front of a 70 is a relatively new approach by Toyota... 70's have had leafs front and rear for most of the time they have existed.
Leafs flex, coils flex. Leafs are simple and rugged and work, coils are not so simple to get right, as Rok said. And leafs can have good road manners while still providing excellent articulation... coils tend to need swaybars or the truck rolls all over the place.
And leafs can be comfortable. Ever driven a well set up Hilux with rears in the front and coons in the back? A lot of guys here have built em, driven em (to destruction in some cases) and loved em.
However, the topic was how to get more flex from IFS, not a pissing competition about SAS setups...
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:08 am
by KIWI_TERRANO
SupraLux wrote:KIWI_TERRANO wrote:also think about this
vx cruiser coil f and r
70 series flat deck coils front leaf rear,
if you can tell me a manifacture that does leaf in front and coil rear from factory i would be dumb founded, they do suspension set ups like it for a reason
And we build our trucks the way we do for a reason... mainly cost, effectiveness offroad and simplicity.
Oh, and VX cruisers are designed for use on road by rich people - not for 4WDing
...and coils in the front of a 70 is a relatively new approach by Toyota... 70's have had leafs front and rear for most of the time they have existed.
Leafs flex, coils flex. Leafs are simple and rugged and work, coils are not so simple to get right, as Rok said. And leafs can have good road manners while still providing excellent articulation... coils tend to need swaybars or the truck rolls all over the place.
And leafs can be comfortable. Ever driven a well set up Hilux with rears in the front and coons in the back? A lot of guys here have built em, driven em (to destruction in some cases) and loved em.
However, the topic was how to get more flex from IFS, not a pissing competition about SAS setups...
If people have to be rich to have a vx why is there so many vx 80series all jacked up running around the country side, even 105 series is affordable.
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 11:24 am
by GotFlex
there seems to be a big deabte on what the best setup is,
i had terrano and and broke steering all the the time, moved into a mu and wore the front end out of that and decided i wanted to sas it, went leafs allround and it drives awesome, recently took it to cape reinga and back. when i started the sas i was very fresh and didnt know what works and didnt all i knew was i wanted a stronger truck that would run 35s easy. later on i started wishing i had done coils untill my mate who did the sas pointed out a very good thought. with leafs i get a prgressive spring rate as each leaf drops. to do the same with coils take lots of $$$ and a lot of engineering to get right.
and to any sas haters who thing there ifs with lockers will go further id like to see you follow me with my old open diffs
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:25 pm
by rangimotors
KIWI_TERRANO wrote:If people have to be rich to have a vx why is there so many vx 80series all jacked up running around the country side, even 105 series is affordable.
because toyota do not design a car to be sold second hand they desin it to be sold new. How many of these jacked up 80's were bought new off the yard and modified? Just because you can buy them cheap now doesnt mean they were cheap new and they definatley were not designed as a hard yakka 4wd
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:43 pm
by UBZ
GotFlex wrote:and to any who think there ifs with lockers will go further id like to see you follow me with my old open diffs
obviously you have never had lockers.
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:59 pm
by GotFlex
got them now, it was more a joke, but always did amaze me where i could take it with open.
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:27 pm
by NJV6
GotFlex wrote: and to any sas haters who thing there ifs with lockers will go further id like to see you follow me with my old open diffs
Mine's bigger than yours though
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 3:33 pm
by GotFlex
NJV6 wrote:GotFlex wrote: and to any sas haters who thing there ifs with lockers will go further id like to see you follow me with my old open diffs
Mine's bigger than yours though
pffffft we will see
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:01 pm
by timmay556
Ifs is comfy on the road and SHIT off road (Yes I have owned an ifs hilux ute)
Never had one with a locker so can't comment on that.
My leaf sprung Hilux does everything that I need it to do - hunting wagon etc. No the ride isn't perfect but then this is a 4wd not an Altezza. After changing the spings and shock only in the front it handels SO much better. So don't comment if you have only ever been in your uncles 1985 hilux with 400,000k's on the original suspension.
Coil springs are the best comfort wise and yes give more articulation if you want that get that but unless you can do it your self or its factory in your vehicle it will cost you an arm an a leg.
Work out how much you want to spend (if you cant do it your self) and go from there.
Theres no point everyone being in a pissing competion in this thread about whats better.
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:27 pm
by rokhound
timmay556 wrote:Coil springs are the best comfort wise and yes give more articulation if you want that
This is the bit I have an issue with. Quite right on your IFS description and the only reason OME IFS is not as good off road as it could be is because of the length of the A arms, and the fact that it does not oppisite load a wheel like a solid axle will.
But leaf spring can be just as comfortable as coil and perform way better as well, it can't do this with aftermarket spring however unless they are longer than original and you have shifted one or both of the mounting points at the chassis.
If you are after a mean arsed beast that can handle most situations you are likely to encounter on the usual 4wd trips in NZ a SAS is a good place to start. however as others have pointed out you can make it go some impressive places buy upgrading your traction aids with the IFS.
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:17 pm
by timmay556
rokhound wrote:
This is the bit I have an issue with. Quite right on your IFS description and the only reason OME IFS is not as good off road as it could be is because of the length of the A arms, and the fact that it does not oppisite load a wheel like a solid axle will.
But leaf spring can be just as comfortable as coil and perform way better as well, it can't do this with aftermarket spring however unless they are longer than original and you have shifted one or both of the mounting points at the chassis.
If you are after a mean arsed beast that can handle most situations you are likely to encounter on the usual 4wd trips in NZ a SAS is a good place to start. however as others have pointed out you can make it go some impressive places buy upgrading your traction aids with the IFS.
Don't know what an A arm is but i think what your are talking about is a-r-t-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n. I understand this is a Toyota forum so most people will be here with leaf springs but from my experiance of being a passenger in a coil sprung patrol its more comfy. Again this is my opinion etc and this is why there is so much arguing on the internet. I have my Opinon you have yours
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:23 am
by SupraLux
timmay556 wrote:Again this is my opinion etc and this is why there is so much arguing on the internet. I have my Opinon you have yours
Stop putting your opinion on the internet, and people will stop arguing with it.
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:46 am
by hosehustler
timmay556 wrote:Don't know what an A arm is but i think what your are talking about is a-r-t-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n.
Timmay..........Check out Roks build,
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... 18&t=22014 he knows what a-r-t-i-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n is, and his opinions are valid
Back to The IFS Question, i'm assuming that's still the topic
Go with Mikes suggestion for now, locker....... if you find you keep breaking it then a SAS will be required, worry about the leaf/coil debate then
I did a coil SAS in a surf a while back, takes some head scratching but was a capable vehicle afterwards, I sold it about a yr ago.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... hp?t=13066
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:36 am
by DieselBoy
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:48 am
by rangimotors
Thats a completley new arguement, I've run both and I know which way took me more places.
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:11 am
by DieselBoy
The stronger axle is still the rear, and the best place is the strongest axle
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:26 am
by rangimotors
100% agree its the strongest axle, but the front sure does make it go more places. I broke more front components without a locker in the front than i did with one, I found I always had way to much wheel spin without the locker but having it allowed a more controlled driving style where it was easier to get off the gas when things went wrong. Each to there own, everyone drives in different ways in different places.
I found tight rear lsd and front locker was a great combo based on my experiances and the sort of driving I was doing.
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:29 am
by mike
yes this is a completely new (old) argument that was beaten to death and unless someone holds DB's dog, wife and new born hostage he will never see the advantage of having it in the front #edit - over the rear
so
back to the original topic and DB stop winding
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:40 am
by rokhound
Yeah DB, stop winding
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 2:51 pm
by DieselBoy
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:19 pm
by NJV6
DieselBoy wrote:(My Safari has IFS in the front. It would be 10x better if it was IRS as well)
What you on??
Re: ifs
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:06 pm
by poss682
are these ball joint spacers legal ??
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:06 am
by muddyhilux
yes ball joint spacers are legal after cert etc,had mine in for a number of years now
Re: ifs
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:39 pm
by gimmemud
There was a thread on the toyota surf forum about doing a diff drop which meant there was a lot less angle on the CV's. Then there is something like this
http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/view ... op&start=0