lifts laws to be inforced

[Pedro]

Hardley "secert squirrel" it was discussed in detail at the recent NZFWDA conference, to which every member was invited. There will be an article sent to every member via Trail Torque shortly but I need a few days to sort some details before i am able to provide an full update.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA.

bit like the sparc fiasco???

[Sadam_Husain]

Hardley "secert squirrel" it was discussed in detail at the recent NZFWDA conference, to which every member was invited. There will be an article sent to every member via Trail Torque shortly but I need a few days to sort some details before i am able to provide an full update.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA.

yeah fair comment maybe it comes down to the delegates from the 2 clubs I belong to coz nothing has reached me so far?

still sounds to me like its been a bit secret squirrel the way the survay was conducted

[Sadam_Husain]

There will be an article sent to every member via Trail Torque shortly but I need a a little time to sort some details before I am able to provide a full update.

Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA.

Hey are they still posted out or emailed now coz I've only ever recieved about 3 of them in the last 6 years and none of my details have ever changed?

[gimmemud]

There will be an article sent to every member via Trail Torque shortly but I need a a little time to sort some details before I am able to provide a full update.

Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA.

Hey are they still posted out or emailed now coz I've only ever recieved about 3 of them in the last 6 years and none of my details have ever changed?

That seems to be normal for the NZFWDA.


All this new law is gonna do is get more rednecks into 4wd clubs to get their POS legal, and more good blokes out of the sport because they can't be bothered with NZFWDA and club bullshit.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hadley "secert squirrel" it was discussed in detail at the recent NZFWDA conference, to which every member was invited. your delegate should be providing feedback to every club. There will be an article sent to every member via Trail Torque shortly but I need a a little time to sort some details before I am able to provide a full update. I am very happy to answer specific questions and receive realistic suggestions either via this forum or via private message. I do however prefer that people put their real name to messages and questions.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA.

Question:

1: How many accidents have been of direct blame of lifted vehicles over recent years? (eg, not influenced by excessive speed, alcohol etc)

2: Has there been an increase over recent years? (perhaps a graph will give a visual idea)

3: Of which percentage were cause by body lifts vs suspension lifts?

4: Of those incidents, how many were fully legit drivers with Wofed, Registered and where necessary, Certified Vehicles?

I assume these are easily available facts as without how could anyone seriously consider a law change.

[De-Ranged]

I assume these are easily available facts as without how could anyone seriously consider a law change

You really are naive, laws are pushed by money and by people who are trying to justify how much they are getting paid ie bureaucrats the only numbers they are interested in is how many votes it effects

As for the proposed rules.... after being involved in a political mess with a certifier over the safety of lifted modified vehicle..(which I was vindicated over) I'd back these rules... not because I'm keen to pay club fees and all the cost of the bureacracy they are going to put in place to issue and control these endorsements
I'd back the rules to get rid of unsafe trucks.... get off the soap box for a moment, how many of you have heard comments like "she's down right scary over 70...", "you don't want to hit a bump at speed....", " yea she pulls under brakes a bit" or other such bs the only saving grace is 4wd'ers tend to be better drivers

Oh there is one really good thing to come if this pass's... the NZ4WDA is going to end up with a huge roll have you noticed that goverments don't like to pick on huge user groups... we get dik'd now but in the long run we are better off

Cheers Reece

[willferris]

I'd back the rules to get rid of unsafe trucks.... get off the soap box for a moment, how many of you have heard comments like "she's down right scary over 70...", "you don't want to hit a bump at speed....", " yea she pulls under brakes a bit" or other such bs the only saving grace is 4wd'ers tend to be better drivers

Oh there is one really good thing to come if this pass's... the NZ4WDA is going to end up with a huge roll have you noticed that goverments don't like to pick on huge user groups... we get dik'd now but in the long run we are better off

Fair call on. Us 4wd's seem to think and maybe rightly so that on average we are better drivers, but at the same time we probably take a few more "risks"

On the topic of backyard hoory modifications, sure some people do it but its not going to stop them [ me] and the poorly modified 4wd wouldn't/ shouldn't pass a warrant! so they wouldn't pass a certification. nor pay for a weetbix licence in the form of a nzfwda sticker.

A line has to be drawn somewhere re lifting but tmmhe only way it will be proved is if they put a max height on where factory headlights sit like they have in australia. is a warrant man going to know if you have 100mm lifted leafs rather than 50mm? it seems unpractial to be policed so think it will require some tweaking,

having a large representation hasnt helped the australian chaps though, 4bys as they love to call them are the devil wagons that eat small children and rainforests, tho every 2nd cars a lifted vx cruiser / patrol / hilux with an arb bar....

[UBZ]

Even though with my BL and no suspension lift I hve a lower COG than most 2" suspension lifted trucks the same. my truck is obviously unsafe and I can't drive.

well I'm off to pull out my tiny body lift and cut the shit out of my guards to effect "rust" repairs .
What BS .

the issue as always, has been driver education and trianing. a tool behind the wheel, is still a tool regardless of what vechile they drive.

[yeti]

so my mrs drives mine now and again...does she now have to join a club so she can do a shop run...

[4WDbits]

Law makers in NZ haven't realised yet that changing the rules has little effect when they and existing rules aren't enforced.

There are already rules about lifts and vehicle modifications which are perfectly fine, just widely ignored.

Tony, Where do we find the definitive discussion documents and proposed changes? Couldn't find anything on NZTA site.

I did laugh at a NZFWDA club captain has to prove you use your vehicle off road, what about ORANZ membership of license?

[wjw]

This is basically going to go like the hot rodders have, you have to be an active member in a club.

[rangimotors]

What a load of shit. What it does is give some wanker who happens to be a club leader (and have no mechanical/safety qualifications) more power than a qualified certifier who has trained to do what they do and able to determine what is safe and what is not.

Oh well no cert=no wof=no reg = less money for those wankers (assuming you don't get pulled up )

[Swamped]

my 0.2c worth

The current rules are fine, they just aren't enforced....at all from what I can tell. I followed a lexus powered surf with 250mm body lift on 33's through a vehicle stop recently and he just rolled on through, with no body caring. I have to share the road with idiots like that and would like to see them gone. The checkpoint guys just didn't know what they were looking at.

I've had a pink sticker dealing hero hit me up before and he'd never dealt with a modified truck, only little rice rockets.

How do the 'dam right scary over 70k' trucks get warrants? They could make a test drive mandatory to help fight that?

Driver education and suitable enforcement would do better than more regulations in my mind.

I would also like a running cert not a $450 payment every time you do something ie $450 for the first cert then maybe $50 each mod after depending on how extensive it is maybe (don't flame the shit outta me cos thats too cheap as I'm just guessing ). If it was easier/cheaper/whatever to cert more people would be inclined to do it. You could also get certed earlier instead of waiting till completion of everything they want to do which a lot of people do.

Weetbix licence

[Swamped]

Does this mean meter maids could give you a ticket for no assoc. sticker as well as warrant and reg?

[rotordogg]

so my mrs drives mine now and again...does she now have to join a club so she can do a shop run...

When my truck was going, My misses used it too!! And she'll be driving the new one when it's going too!!

Do the new rules mean the person driving the vehicle needs to be a club member, or does the owner need to be a member??

There are good enough lift rules in place now, why not inforce them instead of make new BS rules??

Will be watching what comes of this as I have another road legal surf under construction!!

[Mudde1]

i think the only people to blame is the boy racers trading in their lowered turbos for raised trucks, being dicks on the roads and thrashing their trucks offroad and cutting up reserves and throwing their woodstock cans out in the bush..

as for those of us that do it right and drive safe trucks will generally be fine whatever the laws may be...

correct.

[kbushnz]

I would also like a running cert not a $450 payment every time you do something ie $450 for the first cert then maybe $50 each mod after depending on how extensive it is maybe (don't flame the shit outta me cos thats too cheap as I'm just guessing ). If it was easier/cheaper/whatever to cert more people would be inclined to do it. You could also get certed earlier instead of waiting till completion of everything they want to do which a lot of people do.

Now theres a great idea ! I am in this boat right now...
Do I leave it garaged until I get all my tweaks done (as funds become available) or do a few at a time till finished and run the gauntlet until Certified?
But thats another topic...
Calvin

[wopass]

my 0.2c worth


How do the 'dam right scary over 70k' trucks get warrants? They could make a test drive mandatory to help fight that?

VTNZ testing stations government WOF endorsed places...they dont do test drives so wouldnt have a clue if it was dodgy over 10kph.

bare in mind that 90% of the inspectors at those places are failed mechanics so wouldnt know a dangerous vehicle if it crashed into them.

now back to buisness, is this for body lifts? suspention lifts? or both??

actually it doesnt affect me cos my 40 is certed for everything and sitting on cuttiez now and lowered as!! still bigger than most other trucks tho....

[lincooln]

I Personally don't like this new set of rules etc, but I know that they are needed and we cant do much about them. It has been brought on as said before by a few idiots and now the rest of us have to pay for it.

The card is going to be based on how the NZHRA have there fenderless exemption. They get an authority card for being an active member of the association and so it means they can then take off their fenders. I cant see why this wont work with 4wd's. Yes its more red tape etc, but if it means you can have road legal modified trucks then why not? The guys who ride scooters etc in welly who make all the rules would rather there be no lifted trucks on our roads what so ever, so this is a good compromise.

Yes the south Island clubs and the guys in the south island will be at a disadvantage due to not being in NZFWDA, and I feel sorry for them, but it will be good for the majority of us, just harder for some.

Either way we as a 4wd community have had the an easy time compared to all other facets of car modifying in NZ but it was only a matter of time before they started looking at us.

Also I think the idea of a rolling cert would be a great idea. I am holding off on more mods on mine till I can get them all done at once and be done with it, be easier with a rolling cert for sure.

[Mudde1]

Law makers in NZ haven't realised yet that changing the rules has little effect when they and existing rules aren't enforced.

There are already rules about lifts and vehicle modifications which are perfectly fine, just widely ignored.

Tony, Where do we find the definitive discussion documents and proposed changes? Couldn't find anything on NZTA site.

I did laugh at a NZFWDA club captain has to prove you use your vehicle off road, what about ORANZ membership of license?

There is no new law, just better definition and enforcement of existing laws and rules, and for those who qualify, an exemption will become available which , again is issued to us under existing legislation.
NZFWDA have for many years been part of low volume vehicle technical Assn, which is why we can potentially offer this exemption to our members. ORANZ have chosen not to be part of LVVTA so the system will not be available to them. I do intend to talk to after market suppliers such as your self. feel free to phone me.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

[NJV6]

Has anyone found out where this info came about - for those of us miles from the NZFWDA and not seeing this thread we'd never know... Even to discuss how ridiculous it is.

Did some goose just come up with an idea one night at after work drinks?

Why is NZ one of the only countries to make a rule to cover a rule that had to many loopholes rather than fixing the original rule?

[tweake]

my humble 2 cents worth.

you have to remember that there is the law, then theres police policy (or other authorities policies) and then there whats actually enforced at street level which is often determined by how overworked the staff are.
its not going to make any difference if you change the rules etc if police policy is not going to change and most certainly if its such low priority that it will be ignored at street level.
that tends to make the situation worse as once people ignore some rules they tend to ignore the rest. it simply pushes 4x4ers more "underground" rather than keeping them out in the open.

the other thing is if you legally enforce people to join an organization, it then becomes a monopoly. human nature being what it is they often become greedy and do things to certain peoples personal agendas.
at the very least they need to have the ability of joining a different organization. even then it often becomes, for eg, like compulsory car insurance where they all jack the price up because you have to have it.

on the surface i don't really see much good coming out of this, unless of course they are actually going to start enforcing the rules for a change.

[DieselBoy]

The good news is that most club memberships are for the family, well it is for the Waikato Club anyway, so your missus should be sweet driving it??

[Mudde1]

The good news is that most club memberships are for the family, well it is for the Waikato Club anyway, so your missus should be sweet driving it??

The authority card will be issued in one name only. The vehicle, and the cert and the authority card are all linked together. That wont stop you from allowing anyone else to drive the vehicle, but the person named on the authority card will be responsible for the safety of that vehicle.No different to the situation now.

[Mudde1]

I'm more than disgusted.
I want to put my perspective on it....
I work full time driving and operating 6X6 airport fire vehicles, have done for just under 20yrs, they cost 1.4 million each and weigh 36 tonnes a piece.
Now thanks to some bullshit red tape and FukFace tosspot's I have to prove my ability on the road to operate a pussy arse <50mm lifted vehicle
I say LTSA, and NZ4WDA (most clubs down here in the south don't bother with you).....GET REAL

the authority card is not about you ability to drive, its about the use the vehicle is put to. A 50 mm lifted vehicle wont require an authority card.
Authority cards wont be for everyone. you don't have to get one, you just need to keep within the standards set down.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

[Mudde1]

do you know when this is coming through?
be interested to see the wording on the virm.
being part of a club sounds like a bit of a fairy tale, needing a cert sounds plausible, following big brother australia...[/quote]
The latest virm allows a max of 50 mm susp lift with out a cert. All body lifts require a cert. that has been the case for some time.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

[Mudde1]

this is going to f*^k a lot of people of,does anyone have a firm idea of when its coming in and as asked what happens to trucks lifted higher than that already?

Not able to give a time line, but we are being pushed to get ourselves sorted quickly.
Wont be retrospective. if you are already certed and don't change anything it wont affect you.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

[DieselBoy]

Right so let me see if I can put this in plain engrish for everyone:

the authority card is not about your ability to drive, its about the use the vehicle is put to

The "Authority Card" as you put it, is issued for the "Vehicle".

It is NOT issued for the driver.


It is there to say that this vehicle is used for off road use, justifying its lift.

That (the authority card being issued under one name) wont stop you from allowing anyone else to drive the vehicle,

So it does beg the question:

If the the club membership and NZ4WDA requirement is even remotely about driver ability, as you mentioned earlier in the thread, then if anyone can drive the truck, even some random person you lent it to to do the laps on friday night, whats the point of it all??

Is it just to say that the owner of the truck "might" use it off road from time to time as the owner is a member of a 4x4 club.

Therefore the truck is allowed a 200mm lift.

My random mate that wanted to try his luck picking up chicks in it, instead of his WRX, is all good to drive it round on friday night still, even though he has no off road experience and isn't a club member??

You make it sound like it has nothing to do with driver ability and vehicle safety, and everything to do with increased NZ4WDA membership??

Now go back and re-read what I said, and imagine me siting there cool, carm and collected, just having a disscussion. No feather ruffling intended

[De-Ranged]

Hey Tony do you know how this is going to affect scratch built cert
The reason I'm asking is scratch built vehicles are classed as new vehicles.... how are they going to set a bench height as to how much lift
The other reason I ask is LVVTA have just changed the rules so steering mods now are classed as scratch built.... that means any SAS'd trucks, X over steering conversions, steering box or component upgrades will be in the same boat



Hey DB don't start down that road the club membership is an easy out for the powers that be.... if they don't use that next thing you know we will have another class for our licences, a total waste of time that would be... have you got your heavy wheels and self laying tracks I can legally drive a big digger on the road and all I had to do was start it, move forward, back, turn around and park it, answer a few questions I was given the answers too anyway oh and did I forget a huge fee for the half hr it took.... no where in there did I have to demonstrate an ability to operate, to know the risks and dangers involved in the machine....
At least the club membership is going to incorrage these idiots to come learn to drive... as for concern over the increased NZ4WDA role its made up of us... if we feel strongly its up to us to do something about it, either by electing others who want what we want or if you feel that strongly try to get elected.... some thing we have some control over

Cheers Reece

[kiwipete]

Sounds to me like a whole lot of bollocks with one 4wd club (NZ4WDA) being responsible for the whole country, and to obtain this"authority card" you have to belong to them.
Bah humbug!

How is the NZ4WDA planning on administering this "authority card" to those of us in the "Mainland"? Is the "club captain" going to fly all over the country and check each and every vehicle?

I for one will not be joining up with an organisation that has nothing to offer me! (half the reason I am not an active club member)