Offroad-Express

u13turbo wrote:
Definitly works, the more brake pressure you apply the more friction, eventually the spinning wheel will have as much friction as the non spinner, and they swap

So your brakes aren't even then....

Remember putting your brakes on you are putting just as much brake pressure on the non spinning wheel!!!

Put it this way - one wheel on slippery and one on hard.
Brakes work evenly on both wheels.....
one wheel is still on slippery and one on hard but your vehicle now has to work harder to spin the wheel in mid air

It definitely works and is one of the oldest offroad tricks there is.
If one wheel is spinning applying the brakes slows that wheel down forcing the other wheel to spin....ever heard of fiddle brakes?....exactly the same principle.

NJV6 wrote:Put it this way - one wheel on slippery and one on hard.
Brakes work evenly on both wheels.....

Yes the brakes have even pressure, but which wheel locks up?

LOLYF wrote:It definitely works and is one of the oldest offroad tricks there is.
If one wheel is spinning applying the brakes slows that wheel down forcing the other wheel to spin....ever heard of fiddle brakes?....exactly the same principle.

Not quite. Think about what you are saying.

Imagine a classic cross axled situation, the truck is sitting there with one rear in the air, and the opposite front in the air.

With Independent brakes, you lock the two wheels that are in the air. The two that are on the ground have no braking force applied and can rotate freely with the torque that is now supplied to them rather than the two locked wheels.

So if you jam your left foot on the brake with enough force to lock the spining wheels, you are also supply the same braking force to the two wheels that are on the ground that you want to drive.

So what happens??

The engine stalls.

Why??

Because you have locked all the wheels up Duh

If you release some brake pressure and unlock the brakes, the two wheels that are the easiest to spin will start spinning again. That will be the two that are in the air.

With left foot braking you apply equal braking force to all four wheels. This will only help equalise traction a little bit, and is quite usefull, but only to a limited extend. Ask anyone that drives a "A Class" truck in the Nationals

Besides, if left foot braking was all that and some, why would people bother with independant brakes, ARB's, Weld Rights, ARC Lockers, Lock Rights, Spools and waste of space factory LSD's

LOLYF wrote:It definitely works and is one of the oldest offroad tricks there is.
If one wheel is spinning applying the brakes slows that wheel down forcing the other wheel to spin....ever heard of fiddle brakes?....exactly the same principle.

Fiddle brakes allow you to brake the wheel that is in mid air!!!

LOLYF wrote:

NJV6 wrote:Put it this way - one wheel on slippery and one on hard.
Brakes work evenly on both wheels.....

Yes the brakes have even pressure, but which wheel locks up?

The crankshaft locks up after all 4 wheels because you have just put your foot on the brake!

Thanks DB, explained what I was trying to say....!! No denying brakes "settle" the vehicle, especially off road at speed. My diff locks are not for sale!!

open diffs operate on a very simple principle, the planetary or sun gears always allow for the power applied to be concentrated on the axle (or wheel ) of LEAST resistance, hence if a wheel is in mid air, stuck, etc, no drive to the opposite axle, stick in fiddles, apply barakes to that axle....hey presto the axle in mid air is now braked and the power goes through the planetary gears to the opposite axle as it has now less resistance than the one having brake pressure applied

DieselBoy wrote:

So what happens??

The engine stalls.

Why??

Because you have locked all the wheels up Duh

I dont know about your trucks but mine have enough power to over come the brakes

NJV6 wrote: Fiddle brakes allow you to brake the wheel that is in mid air!!!

Oh i get it now, putting your foot on the brakes only brakes the wheel on the ground not both ....How could i have missed that

NJV6 wrote:
The crankshaft locks up after all 4 wheels because you have just put your foot on the brake!

Really? your crankshaft locks up every time you put your foot on the brakes? that must make driving really hard.....

Here is some funny shit!!

Go back and read the posts by myself, DB and Hosehustler. We are however out farming and 4WDing most of the time so probably wouldn't know.

The fiddle brakes principle you refer too is totally irrelevant to your argument as you are braking the wheel you WANT to brake. Braking both wheels you are in EXACTLY the same situation but with your brakes on!

as others have said,

if brakes were evenly balanced, when pressing the pedal, it'd load up the wheel you want to direct the drive to just as much as the wheel thats spinning..

lock the fawker up. lsd will wear too. locker wont.

Left foot braking does work Have tried it multiple times on a practice day on one hazard in the zuk. Yes you have to overpower the brakes, which isnt hard. And in competition it has worked - numerous times.
But agree, for proper positive traction a lockrite (et al) would kick an LSDs arse). But left foot braking DEFINETLY has its place for open diffs

EDIT, shit I need to read posts properly, everyone is saying the same shit I think

Have any of you guys actually tried this method or are you just against it because you don't understand it?

I have used it (on a piece of shit dual open pajero) and it actually works quite well. No one ever said it was better or even close to lockers or lsds but it is a well known and proven trick.

Oh and in case your wondering I run front and rear lockers in my truck and have been 4 wheeling for 16 years....I didn't come down in the last shower of rain

Next time your off the keyboard try turning off your lockers and try something new (old!)

For all the non believers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L85t5WLCK84

LOLYF wrote:For all the non believers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L85t5WLCK84

$hit, please let me get some footage next weekend, no heeps or no barlow involved to prove your point

Sorry about that... all the vids i could find featured jeeps! I guess real trucks just drove on

Also I noticed that If I let the brake drag for a moment, it helped a lot more, I put this down to the fact that the wheel spinning would heat up the brake, thus increasing it's performance, which them means for the same braking force, the wheel that had lost traction now has a much better brake, then transferring the load to the side that has a cold brake.

Thinking about the load forces involved and how the spider gear system works, that would probably be the most logical explanation as to why this method works.

Working on that theory would mean that if you had a brake pad that performed much better once heated would significantly improve the effectiveness of this method.

Food for thought.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

I started explaining my thoughts and experiences on the technique.

Then realised my dick is too small my nuts dont swing hard enough for it to be noticed.

So here's a link to a relevant picture http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhx4m ... o1_400.jpg

Sketchy_Racer wrote:Also I noticed that If I let the brake drag for a moment, it helped a lot more, I put this down to the fact that the wheel spinning would heat up the brake, thus increasing it's performance, which them means for the same braking force, the wheel that had lost traction now has a much better brake, then transferring the load to the side that has a cold brake.

Thinking about the load forces involved and how the spider gear system works, that would probably be the most logical explanation as to why this method works.

Working on that theory would mean that if you had a brake pad that performed much better once heated would significantly improve the effectiveness of this method.

Food for thought.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

I'm sorry to inform you but the offroad Gods have spoken and this technique no longer works, all uses of this technique will be informed in due course.
Once again sorry to be the bearer of bad news

I dont know why everyone is complicating this so much, as Mark said this is proven and people have been doing it for years, no its nothing compared to a good LSD or a Locker but it def can help in some situations and it just plain WORKS.

haydgq wrote:I dont know why everyone is complicating this so much, as Mark said this is proven and people have been doing it for years, no its nothing compared to a good LSD or a Locker but it def can help in some situations and it just plain WORKS.

Hell yeah, well said!!!

So to answer the question in the original post:

Get a Lock Right if you can't afford a ARB!!!!

Dunno we how we got into sharing opinions on the awesomeness of left foot braking, but I would say everyone agree's, its a good trick that does work, but it ain't gonna get you as far as a locker!!

because as the old russian saying goes evrybody is equal on the farm just some are more equal then others and lockers are the most equal of all and maneul lockers are the most most equal


failing that have a good winch and that will equal things out and if you want to be more equal then have two winches



haha that puts a differant spin on it ah

Told ya this was some funny shit!!

Andrew1706 wrote:I started explaining my thoughts and experiences on the technique.

Then realised my dick is too small my nuts dont swing hard enough for it to be noticed.

So here's a link to a relevant picture http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhx4m ... o1_400.jpg

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

u13turbo wrote:Lockers put a shit load more strain on things, especially when you lift a wheel and drop it down again with some speed.

OMG, heheheheheheheheh

Awesome

Ok, in my "opinion" (and in the real world) a locker does exactly the opposite to what you stated.

This is because both wheels on the same axle are mechanically locked together. If you lift a wheel, it cannot go faster or slower then the wheel that is still on the ground. As a result there is no flywheel effect which is what you get with an open diff with one wheel spinning in the air and the other on the ground not moving. That flywheel effect is what smashes CV's and in surf's, the front diff.

Seen it lots and lots and lots and well, lots

If you lift a wheel with a locker in and it comes back down to the ground nothing happens, you just keep on the gas and keep owwwwn drivin, co's you sure as hell won't be stuck

Bouncing both front wheels off the ground on the same axle at full lock with the locker in and not getting off the gas is a different story though


Diff locks are the ultimate in drive line and truck preservation, you just crawl around. Infact its almost boring sometimes, you don't have to charge up stuff that you normally get cross axled on, you just leisurely walk on through



Lockers for the win


This thread is FUN

1KZ IFS Surf - No Rear Diff Lock - 4 Blowen Front Diffs / 3 Smashed CV's
Rear Diff Lock - No Drive Train Breakages Since

DieselBoy wrote:So if you jam your left foot on the brake with enough force to lock the spining wheels, you are also supply the same braking force to the two wheels that are on the ground that you want to drive.

So what happens??

The engine stalls.

Why??

Because you have locked all the wheels up Duh

DieselBoy wrote:
Dunno we how we got into sharing opinions on the awesomeness of left foot braking, but I would say everyone agree's, its a good trick that does work, but it ain't gonna get you as far as a locker!!

So which is it?
Either it works or it doesn't

LOLYF wrote:

DieselBoy wrote:So if you jam your left foot on the brake with enough force to lock the spining wheels, you are also supply the same braking force to the two wheels that are on the ground that you want to drive.

So what happens??

The engine stalls.

Why??

Because you have locked all the wheels up Duh

DieselBoy wrote:
Dunno we how we got into sharing opinions on the awesomeness of left foot braking, but I would say everyone agree's, its a good trick that does work, but it ain't gonna get you as far as a locker!!

So which is it?
Either it works or it doesn't

Locking all the wheels up with the brakes doesn't work.

Riding the brakes with your left foot works to an extent.

A diff lock works better than riding the brakes with your left foot.

Yeh



Thats what I reckon anyway. I'm no expert, just been around a while that's all

Did i miss the sale on emoticons

DieselBoy wrote:

u13turbo wrote:Lockers put a shit load more strain on things, especially when you lift a wheel and drop it down again with some speed.

OMG, heheheheheheheheh

Awesome

Ok, in my "opinion" (and in the real world) a locker does exactly the opposite to what you stated.

This is because both wheels on the same axle are mechanically locked together. If you lift a wheel, it cannot go faster or slower then the wheel that is still on the ground. As a result there is no flywheel effect which is what you get with an open diff with one wheel spinning in the air and the other on the ground not moving. That flywheel effect is what smashes CV's and in surf's, the front diff.

Seen it lots and lots and lots and well, lots

If you lift a wheel with a locker in and it comes back down to the ground nothing happens, you just keep on the gas and keep owwwwn drivin, co's you sure as hell won't be stuck

Bouncing both front wheels off the ground on the same axle at full lock with the locker in and not getting off the gas is a different story though


Diff locks are the ultimate in drive line and truck preservation, you just crawl around. Infact its almost boring sometimes, you don't have to charge up stuff that you normally get cross axled on, you just leisurely walk on through



Lockers for the win


This thread is FUN

Ok, well from what I had heard, and from what makes sence to me, is that if your wheels are spinning fast, one pops off the ground, then comes down on a pretty grippy surface, there is gonna be a shitload of pressure on all the parts? But i guess im not "in the real world" sorry for wasting your time, champ.

LOLYF wrote:

DieselBoy wrote:So if you jam your left foot on the brake with enough force to lock the spining wheels, you are also supply the same braking force to the two wheels that are on the ground that you want to drive.

So what happens??

The engine stalls.

Why??

Because you have locked all the wheels up Duh

DieselBoy wrote:
Dunno we how we got into sharing opinions on the awesomeness of left foot braking, but I would say everyone agree's, its a good trick that does work, but it ain't gonna get you as far as a locker!!

So which is it?
Either it works or it doesn't

Exactly what I thought

Well DB, I thought you explained that perfectly.
It would seem however that you need to to put your Kermit voice on