Offroad-Express

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against teams events, quite the opposite, I've driven in teams events, co-driven in teams events as well as drive in nat's, and co-driven in nat's. I enjoy getting out as much as I can afford to, there both different ball games, with different approaches needed...

I've built my truck up as a compramise, it's not pure trials, and not pure winch, I'm planning on having a go at kiwi challenge next year IF it survives the trials season (I'm not expecting to be compedative, but just enjoy getting out and driving it). I find it a little unfair that non wof'd winch trucks can enter costa events but a trials truck can't...

For me, the only reason I don't get out and compete in more events or go on more trips is money! With weekly bills getting higher and higher each year, there's less spare cash for going to events. Cost of entry, fuel, transport to/from, food, gas for cooking etc all add up rather quickly!!
I know there's not alot the organisers can do to lower the entry cost, I think it's just a matter of how things are in these times that any event will have less entries...

Anyway, bring on more teams events!!

My 2c (paid by eftpos)

Dont often get on the forum as I only compete once or twice a year if the stars align correctly. In regards to winch challenges, I think one of the problems is the perception of the sport as often the only viewing a person who might think about having a go is Youtube, and that is often a distorted view as it has the more extreme images on it.

Has any one ever given any thought to perhaps scoring events slightly differently to encourage new people to the sport. I am basically talking about someone that only intends to do a local winch challenge and not compete in a series. They could be sorced from local clubs and invited to attend by the organisers.

Things I have thought about would be:
1. Retain a DNF time.
2. Get through a stage within DNF "0"points
2. Grade stage (where Marshalls would be for safe winching practise) at say 75 , 50, and 25 points.
3. DNF 100 points
4. Ability to add 5 minutes to final grade of stage at a cost of 20 points to whatever grade you got to Eg A DNF score would be 120 points.

Penalty points would be added for safety breaches when winching etc. to give total score. All "0"points would be times and winner would be most 0"s or in case of two being same, then lowest overall time.

This would give a competitor the ability to call time at any point within the stage and still get some points. If they dont want a crack at something for whatever reason they can stop, saving damage to vehicle or what ever.

Just thought this might give a new guy the chance to pull the pin and be strategic in regards to maintaining the vehicle rather than doing one stage, damaging it and putting it on the trailer.

Just a thought

Seldom do I respond to comments but I feel a response is warranted in this instance.
Manukau 4WD Club was concerned that the cost of entry to events was becoming excessive and the potential competitor pool was becoming more limited. To try to address this, last September Manukau 4WD Club ran a winch challenge which, while catering for the current class mix, introduced a new class of competition, Manukau Class.
Manukau Class (while waiting for a new name) (and running on different tracks) is defined more or less as your ordinary road going truck with a winch bolted on the front. 50% of the entries were in this class.
I am actively thinking about where the future of our sport lies and would appreciate your positive input.

Dave Brown
president@4x4challenges.org.nz

isuzumudman wrote:I am actively thinking about where the future of our sport lies and would appreciate your positive input.

Dave Brown
president@4x4challenges.org.nz

thats easy to answer, any sport needs grass roots entry level thats why your Manakau class was so sucessfull, same with the cz club truck series and probably the same with the northland interclub stuff they have started up

isuzumudman wrote:Seldom do I respond to comments but I feel a response is warranted in this instance.
Manukau 4WD Club was concerned that the cost of entry to events was becoming excessive and the potential competitor pool was becoming more limited. To try to address this, last September Manukau 4WD Club ran a winch challenge which, while catering for the current class mix, introduced a new class of competition, Manukau Class.
Manukau Class (while waiting for a new name) (and running on different tracks) is defined more or less as your ordinary road going truck with a winch bolted on the front. 50% of the entries were in this class.
I am actively thinking about where the future of our sport lies and would appreciate your positive input.

Dave Brown
president@4x4challenges.org.nz

For what it's worth, I thought what you did with the last Manukau Winch Challenge was exactly the kind of clear foresight that's been lacking in the sport for a few years.

I have been fence sitting for many years, wanting to enter a winch challenge. Or any sort of challenge for that matter. Helped with many but......
Monstr's 24 hr challenge came along and I had my first go.... Team event so saftey in numbers and was coached along the way when needed...Well thought out tracks and low risk for serious damage... Great event but it opened my eyes...
My truck (and me) will never be competitive amongst the "big boys" in a full on winch challenge event. Just not going to happen on so many levels.....But we wont go there....
I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.
However this "Manukau" class looked great (went to watch and should have entered but still smarting after the 24hr Easter challenge) and as one of those who would like to compete with my "Club Truck" in well thought out tracks with hazards suited to this class. I believe it would be well attended.
So yes the grass roots level had been forgotten (We all become marshals ) And Manukau's club attempt to cater for it was a success (Well Done)... So bring on more.....Just need to remember to set the tracks accordingly....

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Sheffield mud plug is the same, I used to enter, but every year the course gets harder, too much risk of roll over now.

wjw wrote:

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Sheffield mud plug is the same, I used to enter, but every year the course gets harder, too much risk of roll over now.

Does this mean you're not entering this year Bill?

petefj40 wrote:

wjw wrote:

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Sheffield mud plug is the same, I used to enter, but every year the course gets harder, too much risk of roll over now.

Does this mean you're not entering this year Bill?

Based on last years course no, can't risk a roll.... and I just know I'll get carried away

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Im so over hearing this rant, Its got F**kall to do with the dollars spent on the trucks and a damm site more to do with the skill levels of the teams competing in the comps..........
You could take any of the clubbie drivers and stick them in a full blown truck and they are not gonna go any better than they do now, yet if you took one of the better more competent teams and put them in a club truck, they would still be right up in the results.
Basic stuff is what wins winch comps, and 75% of the battle is in the preparation before a comp, if you can turn up in a truck thats gonna last the whole event with out shitting itself and a winch thats gonna work the whole comp, youve got a far better chance of doing well straight away, and thats just basic stuff that any club truck should be doing before going on any club trip.
If thats too hard, people should just stick to going on safaris.........

Mate, could not agree more, most of the top guys spend 60 plus hours on preping the truck and 4 hours driving around stages.
I have just come from a club class suzuki and the different is a faster winch now.
Drive just the same. There will always be club to extreme, that life.
Think the entry level classes are great, but then you want more of a challenge
So you progress to the top levels.
Every one has to start somewhere.and there needs to be a class for each.

what month is the sheffield again? isnt it later in the year? just weighing up options for moving my POS around the country

Madaz wrote:

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Im so over hearing this rant, Its got F**kall to do with the dollars spent on the trucks and a damm site more to do with the skill levels of the teams competing in the comps..........
You could take any of the clubbie drivers and stick them in a full blown truck and they are not gonna go any better than they do now, yet if you took one of the better more competent teams and put them in a club truck, they would still be right up in the results.
Basic stuff is what wins winch comps, and 75% of the battle is in the preparation before a comp, if you can turn up in a truck thats gonna last the whole event with out shitting itself and a winch thats gonna work the whole comp, youve got a far better chance of doing well straight away, and thats just basic stuff that any club truck should be doing before going on any club trip.
If thats too hard, people should just stick to going on safaris.........

x2. My truck is worth less than a lot of the "club" trucks around. The events I have won/done well at all revolved around the truck being well prepped and me spending time in the seat prior to. The last event I did truck had no prep and I had no seat time. I drove like a muppet and broke the under prepped truck. compedative trucks dont have to be dear, I'm not an engineer or even close, built truck in shed, thought and reasearched lots during the build then learnt to drive it and changed the truck one thing at a time to qualify changes.

meatc wrote:

Madaz wrote:

kbushnz wrote:I remember back when the winch challenges were starting out and a club truck had a chance.. then it went crazy, trucks evolved, tracks got harder, people started spending $$$$$, tracks got harder again.

Im so over hearing this rant, Its got F**kall to do with the dollars spent on the trucks and a damm site more to do with the skill levels of the teams competing in the comps..........
You could take any of the clubbie drivers and stick them in a full blown truck and they are not gonna go any better than they do now, yet if you took one of the better more competent teams and put them in a club truck, they would still be right up in the results.
Basic stuff is what wins winch comps, and 75% of the battle is in the preparation before a comp, if you can turn up in a truck thats gonna last the whole event with out shitting itself and a winch thats gonna work the whole comp, youve got a far better chance of doing well straight away, and thats just basic stuff that any club truck should be doing before going on any club trip.
If thats too hard, people should just stick to going on safaris.........

x2. My truck is worth less than a lot of the "club" trucks around. The events I have won/done well at all revolved around the truck being well prepped and me spending time in the seat prior to. The last event I did truck had no prep and I had no seat time. I drove like a muppet and broke the under prepped truck. compedative trucks dont have to be dear, I'm not an engineer or even close, built truck in shed, thought and reasearched lots during the build then learnt to drive it and changed the truck one thing at a time to qualify changes.

x3 to all of that

Are there any dates for any winch comps in the North island this year?
Are there any planned.

To steal Madaz idea, who would be interested in a one day, club style winch challenge type event.
I realise that is super vague.
Thinking of some thing that only takes a couple of weekends work to organise and is low key. This way a few clubs could organise them with minimal time and effort, such that we might see a basic event once a month/2 months within a couple of districts. Depending on the property, you could even go run the courses backwards a month later?
All credit to Madaz, I have pretty much 100% plagiarised his ideas.

Would you come to such an event?

Not worth a ferry crossing, and travel time for a one day event, your target market would be locals.
the mainland series is a 3 nights stages, and 10 day stage on the sat & sunday.
some clubs run it friday / saturday.
we have 5 events, one a month.

shortylux wrote:To steal Madaz idea, who would be interested in a one day, club style winch challenge type event.
I realise that is super vague.
Thinking of some thing that only takes a couple of weekends work to organise and is low key. This way a few clubs could organise them with minimal time and effort, such that we might see a basic event once a month/2 months within a couple of districts. Depending on the property, you could even go run the courses backwards a month later?
All credit to Madaz, I have pretty much 100% plagiarised his ideas.

Would you come to such an event?

hahahahaha - last time i tell you anything.

Hes pretty much summed it up, planning to run one in a couple of months, in the waikato area, will be a one dayer, $10 per driver, basic club safety rules, eg tow hooks ect.
Wont be truck killing hazzards, compulsary winches ect will be chucked in to make it interesting.
All proper winches( eg genuinely stuck) will be set with a standard electric slowmount winch, so that they are acheivable by all trucks.

Definently chuck in a lunchtime speed section to keep everyone happy.

Rotorua club ran one a few years ago at petes paradise, and it was a good day out.

Hopefully some of the other clubs in the Rotorua/Tauranga/Manukau area can come up with something similar????

Madaz wrote:hahahahaha - last time i tell you anything.

Hes pretty much summed it up, planning to run one in a couple of months, in the waikato area, will be a one dayer, $10 per driver, basic club safety rules, eg tow hooks ect.
Wont be truck killing hazzards, compulsary winches ect will be chucked in to make it interesting.
All proper winches( eg genuinely stuck) will be set with a standard electric slowmount winch, so that they are acheivable by all trucks.

Definently chuck in a lunchtime speed section to keep everyone happy.

Rotorua club ran one a few years ago at petes paradise, and it was a good day out.

Hopefully some of the other clubs in the Rotorua/Tauranga/Manukau area can come up with something similar????

This is a great idea the up and commers are the ones who keep the events alive (well thats what we find, that and good stages) people need to go out and have fun and not smash there truck up good to see your behind this tim good luck

imsohi wrote:

Madaz wrote:hahahahaha - last time i tell you anything.

Hes pretty much summed it up, planning to run one in a couple of months, in the waikato area, will be a one dayer, $10 per driver, basic club safety rules, eg tow hooks ect.
Wont be truck killing hazzards, compulsary winches ect will be chucked in to make it interesting.
All proper winches( eg genuinely stuck) will be set with a standard electric slowmount winch, so that they are acheivable by all trucks.

Definently chuck in a lunchtime speed section to keep everyone happy.

Rotorua club ran one a few years ago at petes paradise, and it was a good day out.

Hopefully some of the other clubs in the Rotorua/Tauranga/Manukau area can come up with something similar????

This is a great idea the up and commers are the ones who keep the events alive (well thats what we find, that and good stages) people need to go out and have fun and not smash there truck up good to see your behind this tim good luck

Also, it lets people see what advantages can be had belonging to a 4x4 club and hopefully get membership numbers back up......

good call Tim

heres one for cantabs or anyone really ..im in, got team ,will have fun.......

http://www.4x4events.co.nz/node/408

another link to the mainland winch series.
dates, rules etc

http://www.mainlandwinchchallenges.co.nz/

Madaz wrote: planning to run one in a couple of months, in the waikato area, will be a one dayer, $10 per driver, basic club safety rules, eg tow hooks ect.
Wont be truck killing hazzards, compulsary winches ect will be chucked in to make it interesting.
All proper winches( eg genuinely stuck) will be set with a standard electric slowmount winch, so that they are acheivable by all trucks.

Definently chuck in a lunchtime speed section to keep everyone happy.

Rotorua club ran one a few years ago at petes paradise, and it was a good day out.

Hopefully some of the other clubs in the Rotorua/Tauranga/Manukau area can come up with something similar????

Book me in danno!!

wopass wrote:

Madaz wrote: planning to run one in a couple of months, in the waikato area, will be a one dayer, $10 per driver, basic club safety rules, eg tow hooks ect.
Wont be truck killing hazzards, compulsary winches ect will be chucked in to make it interesting.
All proper winches( eg genuinely stuck) will be set with a standard electric slowmount winch, so that they are acheivable by all trucks.

Definently chuck in a lunchtime speed section to keep everyone happy.

Rotorua club ran one a few years ago at petes paradise, and it was a good day out.

Hopefully some of the other clubs in the Rotorua/Tauranga/Manukau area can come up with something similar????

Book me in danno!!

sweet as...........

I can see a possible problem of too many trucks........ but will cross that bridge when i get to it

Easy fix, have a cut off number, and first in gets a ride.

QUADRACER wrote:Not worth a ferry crossing, and travel time for a one day event, your target market would be locals.

I don't mean to be rude bro, but that was blindingly obvious. I did say "within a couple of districts". Of course any one would be welcome.

Madaz, too many trucks? Two one day events on the same weekend. Run the tougher trucks on the second day over the all ready chewed up hazards?.

First one will be a one dayer, and will be on a sunday too.
You will need a minimum of a roll hoop/4 point cage as well.
Wire/synthetic rope, whatever you like cause your carryin it
There will only be one class,......... Fun class.......... it will encompass bush trucks, club trucks, road trucks, winch trucks, whatever....... as long as it has a winch on it.

I will post more details closer to the time

was only asking if you had, or have any dates for
winch comps in the North island.
your local events wouild be a great start to get locals ready for a other event.
so , back to my first question.
Are there any planned dates for winch comps that would be worth travelling for.
Im sure you fellas would like some more numbers
in the challenge class.
could dust off the suzuki , and leave it up there.

Madaz wrote:First one will be a one dayer, and will be on a sunday too.
You will need a minimum of a roll hoop/4 point cage as well.
Wire/synthetic rope, whatever you like cause your carryin it
There will only be one class,......... Fun class.......... it will encompass bush trucks, club trucks, road trucks, winch trucks, whatever....... as long as it has a winch on it.

I will post more details closer to the time

Hmmmm, better get the PTO winch finished on The50