Offroad-Express

Early Subie wtair were designed to wk with 150kw reliably, the "late" model TT 206kw ones shd cover your requirments parts are common etc. Make sure you get all the bits required - google how they wk for a complete list so you dont have to chase them later.

Yes water to air is a more complex setup but shorter inlet tract easier to plumb up in tight aeras and wk better at lower vehicle speeds.

Menthol inj came out in piston planes and frd mercuarys I think, the setup is well proven. Water mist on the heat exchanger also wks well,a cheap setup can be driven off an extra window washer motor

Tarmac wrote:Early Subie wtair were disigned to wk with 150kw reliably, the "late" model TT 206kw ones shd cover your requirments parts are common etc. ...........

HP ratings don't translate into diesels engines.
my mem i think its you need something like 400kw rated intercooler for a good 4.2.

tweake wrote:

Tarmac wrote:Early Subie wtair were disigned to wk with 150kw reliably, the "late" model TT 206kw ones shd cover your requirments parts are common etc. ...........

HP ratings don't translate into diesels engines.
my mem i think its you need something like 400kw rated intercooler for a good 4.2.

is this because they heat up becacuse diesels are on boost for much longer? Its obviously not because they flow more air becasue they don't..

not exactly sure why.
certainly diesels are on boost for a huge amount of time compared to petrols. which means they need to be very good otherwise it impacts performance during a larger amount of driving time.

the other thing is that a 400kw petrol motor isn't all that big where as a 400kw diesel is frigen huge. i would assume airflow for 400kw petrol is far less than a 400kw diesel.

[quote="Tarmac"]Early Subie wtair were designed to wk with 150kw reliably, the "late" model TT 206kw ones shd cover your requirments parts are common etc. Make sure you get all the bits required - google how they wk for a complete list so you dont have to chase them later.

sorry mate but this has been covered before and as its the same size motor same calcs apply.
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... er#p310637

intercooler size is worked out by cfms not horsepower.

tweake wrote:not exactly sure why.
certainly diesels are on boost for a huge amount of time compared to petrols. which means they need to be very good otherwise it impacts performance during a larger amount of driving time.

the other thing is that a 400kw petrol motor isn't all that big where as a 400kw diesel is frigen huge. i would assume airflow for 400kw petrol is far less than a 400kw diesel.

ok cool the only reason i question it is for a 4.2 diesel engine and turbo from a 2 litre petrol engine is about the right size so i can't see how the same turbo can be flowing so much more air. I think it must just be beacuse often diesels are on boost pretty much right from idle so the intercooler will not get a chance to cool down.

I've decided to go water to air for the ease of running the pipes and also as I will be doing alot of slow hill climbs towing the boat. So now the question is what size front mount radiator will I need and also what water to air exchanger. I'm going to get the intake adaptor from auto sport engineering.
Got the cruiser going again now. All exhaust manifold studs replaced. EGT sensor all installed. Just need to conect up the gauge which has arrived from Auber. Got the boost controller so will install that shortly.

for the radiator i would go for the biggest but thinest you can get. also mount it up high with pump under it, with pump outlet hose going up to a high point then down to the intercooler. fit the fill point (rad cap) on the high point.

the reason for thin radiator is easier fitting and less blocking of air flow. keep it up high so it doesn't block off the lower part of the engines radiator.

tweake wrote:for the radiator i would go for the biggest but thinest you can get. also mount it up high with pump under it, with pump outlet hose going up to a high point then down to the intercooler. fit the fill point (rad cap) on the high point.

the reason for thin radiator is easier fitting and less blocking of air flow. keep it up high so it doesn't block off the lower part of the engines radiator.

The issue I have is that I have a big trans cooler. It takes up half the front area i.e. from the centre bonnet latch to the side of the radiator. It is full height so I only have room for that again on the other side for the intercooler radiator. Would that be too small. If so might have to kook at redoing the trans cooler. Don't want too get a radiator and find its too small. What thoughts do others have.

can you fit the rad in front of the trans cooler?
it might just be a case of use what space you have available.
not sure on minimum size. that would depend what boost/heat the turbo puts out. in the frozen boost kits the radiators are way to small for a diesel.

tweake wrote:can you fit the rad in front of the trans cooler?
it might just be a case of use what space you have available.
not sure on minimum size. that would depend what boost/heat the turbo puts out. in the frozen boost kits the radiators are way to small for a diesel.

No room in front of the trans cooler. I have an aux fan in front of it. I could possibly do away with the fan and mount the trans cooler in front of the intercooler. I just need to no what cooler size people recomend for a 4.2 Diesel. Would rather redo the trans cooler than install something that dosen't work that well.

Hi Phil,
Do you still use your air con, if not then you could pull out the air con rad to give you a bit more room.
Cheers
Tim

suzolla wrote:Hi Phil,
Do you still use your air con, if not then you could pull out the air con rad to give you a bit more room.
Cheers
Tim

Hi Tim
Yea still use the air con

Looking at the Denco kits but would cost about $4k by the time I get it here. Hell of a price but there radiators would fit nicely on one side.

Hey well with water injection you don't have to worry about space up front 20L will last me over 1200 km and I got 14hp at the wheels with running strait water, and another benefit is a steam cleaned engine

Have decided to install a Denco kit for ease of installation. Anyone know the best place to purchase one. I will install myself.

tweake wrote:

Tarmac wrote:Early Subie wtair were disigned to wk with 150kw reliably, the "late" model TT 206kw ones shd cover your requirments parts are common etc. ...........

HP ratings don't translate into diesels engines.
my mem i think its you need something like 400kw rated intercooler for a good 4.2.

Dont want to be a cnt, but out of curiosty why dont the 2.7 minstrals run "250kw intercoolers" nor do the 3.2 bighorns run "300+kw air to air topmounts" to keep their dozels cool?.

Diezels are on boost a lot earlier due to smaller turbos spooling up lower in the rev range to compliment the engine type and run out of effiecency quicker therefore generating a lot more heat over the entire rev range, with higher exh temp it makes sense they wld require larger coolin capacity but "that much more?"

engines are "air pumps" with spark and fuel for a simplistic view on it. for arguments sake petrol engines can and do rev around twice as fast as their oil burning counterparts of a similar displacment... moving twice as much "air through the system" or "cubic feet per min" to generate kw much further up the rev range and higher. I understand 4wds have different requirements like low vehicle speed and higher engine bay temps but all factory IC's have a fudge factor (30+deg days, low speed, a sneaky few more lbs boost)

Tarmac wrote:Dont want to be a cnt, but out of curiosty why dont the 2.7 minstrals run "250kw intercoolers" nor do the 3.2 bighorns run "300+kw air to air topmounts" to keep their dozels cool?.

cost.

manufactures rarely put the good gear on when they can get away with a cheaper way. why would they have top mounts with no fans that get heatsoaked as soon as you stop/slow.
they do bare minimum, if they could have run no IC they would have. eg navara 15psi boost and no IC.

HP ratings is always a wank factor anyway. it really doesn't mean much. flow and efficiency is what you need to know and its something they don't often say.

Looked at all the various options and as mentioned before I have decided to go for a denco water to air intercooler kit for ease of installation. It suits the set up I already have with my trans cooler so I don't have to change anything else. They are expensive but my question is is are they the best or one of the best. I don't want to be paying that kind of price for rubbish. I don't mind paying if I'm getting quality. What's everyones thoughts.

tweake wrote:not exactly sure why.
certainly diesels are on boost for a huge amount of time compared to petrols. which means they need to be very good otherwise it impacts performance during a larger amount of driving time.
.

you are right try reading this http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Diesel-Intercooling/A_112608/article.html

Diorama wrote:Looked at all the various options and as mentioned before I have decided to go for a denco water to air intercooler kit for ease of installation. It suits the set up I already have with my trans cooler so I don't have to change anything else. They are expensive but my question is is are they the best or one of the best. I don't want to be paying that kind of price for rubbish. I don't mind paying if I'm getting quality. What's everyones thoughts.

from what i've heard is build quality is good. performance ok but not great.
they generally have everything made ie cast inlet pipes etc. downside is the price, i doubt you will get much change out of $4k nz
i think you can do better for that sort of $$$.

Diorama wrote:Looked at all the various options and as mentioned before I have decided to go for a denco water to air intercooler kit for ease of installation. It suits the set up I already have with my trans cooler so I don't have to change anything else. They are expensive but my question is is are they the best or one of the best. I don't want to be paying that kind of price for rubbish. I don't mind paying if I'm getting quality. What's everyones thoughts.

water to air, quality will pay as the last thing you need is a water leak in the intake and the damage that follows

tweake wrote:

Diorama wrote:Looked at all the various options and as mentioned before I have decided to go for a denco water to air intercooler kit for ease of installation. It suits the set up I already have with my trans cooler so I don't have to change anything else. They are expensive but my question is is are they the best or one of the best. I don't want to be paying that kind of price for rubbish. I don't mind paying if I'm getting quality. What's everyones thoughts.

from what i've heard is build quality is good. performance ok but not great.
they generally have everything made ie cast inlet pipes etc. downside is the price, i doubt you will get much change out of $4k nz
i think you can do better for that sort of $$$.

I think you are mis understanding me. Not worried about the price if the quality is there. With water to air I want quality. Can always get better value for money but it may mean lesser quality. What I'm asking is are they the best out there or at least on a par with the best. Have priced it up and I can land it at my door step for 3.3K.

likemagic wrote:

Diorama wrote:Looked at all the various options and as mentioned before I have decided to go for a denco water to air intercooler kit for ease of installation. It suits the set up I already have with my trans cooler so I don't have to change anything else. They are expensive but my question is is are they the best or one of the best. I don't want to be paying that kind of price for rubbish. I don't mind paying if I'm getting quality. What's everyones thoughts.

water to air, quality will pay as the last thing you need is a water leak in the intake and the damage that follows

Thats why I want quality. But are these kits the best.

Also would be interested to here from anyone that has installed one of these kits into an 80 series or at least a water to air kit and what sort of difference it made.
Alot of talk about water ingress in a diesel. Yes I agree but has anyone actually heard of it happening due to intercooler failure. would have thought a intercooler leak would be more inclined to start as a pin hole resulting in loss of fluid which would bring your intention to it before any major failure. Might even work as water injection and help the cooling process

didn't 4wdbits have an 80 series water/air IC for sale a while back ??

your probably best to ask on the aussie forums about the denco systems. i doubt many people have fitted them here. afaik the barrels are made by PWR.

strangely enough i've yet to hear of any that leak, even the cheap ones.
the main concern i hear of is performance vers $$$.

if you want the best then talk to these guys http://www.are.com.au.
they make seriously good gear and top quality. i do know of a few have their systems and been in use without problems for a long time.

tweake wrote:didn't 4wdbits have an 80 series water/air IC for sale a while back ??

Yes they did but am unsure of their quality

tweake wrote:strangely enough i've yet to hear of any that leak, even the cheap ones.

Thought that might be the case. People hear about water ingress with a diesel and then get paranoid about having a water source so close to their intake

tweake wrote:the main concern i hear of is performance vers $$$.

Is that all water to air in general or specific to the denco units. I know dencos radiators are smaller but it will fit nicely without doing other mods. I can't do away with the trans cooler. I don't want to spend lots for no gains so as long as I will make a reasonable gain then its worth it.