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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:42 am
by icekayak
tallsam66 wrote:I brought 2 hooks the other day from Supercheap....they were rated 4500Kg..so they do sell rated ones.
Also if they arent mounted to the factory place on the chasis they should be certified.
When i purchased some from supercheap they did NOT come with bolts marked as grade 8.8 (High Tensile) bolts. so i would replace these with marked bolts also. (there was no markings on the one it came with)
cheers
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:33 pm
by Bubba
I can't really see the issue around rated/ unrated hooks, not when the rated ones are inexpensive. Why would you save yourself a couple of bucks to buy unrated ones when the chance of death/ serous injury increases significantly when used. It would be different if the rated ones were expensive.
Just my uneducated opinion
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:40 pm
by fweddy
Bubba wrote:I can't really see the issue around rated/ unrated hooks, not when the rated ones are inexpensive. Why would you save yourself a couple of bucks to buy unrated ones when the chance of death/ serous injury increases significantly when used. It would be different if the rated ones were expensive.
Just my uneducated opinion
Actually can get rated for $15.95 and found unrated at $40.00 so its a saving to buy rated any way!
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:53 pm
by Bubba
Kinda makes the whole point a bit mute dosen't it?
bit like buying those cheap nasty life jackets they have at Supacheep, I would never let anybody I cared about use one but i digress
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:02 pm
by fweddy
Kinda makes the whole point a bit mute dosen't it?
does - and it doesn't
but any way...
I must get some and get them fitted before I have to tie to the ariel or indicator lense screw to get pulled out (see they are both 'rated' to break before it gets too much tension to hurtle anything into orbit!)
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:25 pm
by rollypolly
try the corner of fitz ave and tuam st,
they should sell 10,000 or plus hooks.
plus mite fit them too, good luck
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:25 am
by albundy
Go and see Rick at 4wd accessories in Montreal st at the fitzgerald st end. He will see you right.
Al
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:58 am
by mike
I'm pretty sure most of the hooks now days are made in china. Who imports them is another thing. I know when I was selling them on here the snatchmaster hooks were made in china but I wasnt importing them, cookes were and they conducted testing on them. If a batch wasnt upto scratch they would send them back and wait till the next lot came in. They can do this as they are industrial test specialists as well as rigging suppliers.
Can super cheap do this? would they bother? what about other hooks and suppliers? who tests their batches? Everything now days is made in china, all our shackles, webbing, thats why we get stuff so cheap and nz's manufactoring industry is going down the gurgler because of it
Mike
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:14 am
by SMOKEY
Hey Al, no wunder you Aussie's get lost and end up in "God's Own" .
Try Rick --- 4wd acc: 174b Montreal st --- MOORHOUSE Ave; end.
Al, you might have to get your GPS re calibrated
.
DON'T FOLLOW ME I'M LOST,
( Al ) FITZY.
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:01 am
by billyvanboheman
Hehehe, Good call Fitzy
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:58 pm
by albundy
Yep
, sorry about that. What a faux paux ( french for fuckup
) Too early in the morning obvisiously. I know where he is at so that's all that counts really
.
Al
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:35 am
by disfordog
I already have rated 10,000Lb hooks that I would love to fit to the front of my Terrano but the bolt holes don't line up! And there is really nowhere else to fit them up front???
Is there any Nissan guys out there with pics of their chassis mounted 10,000Lb hooks? Or legit bar setups?
I've not had a problem with the factory hooks but it does make me nervious...
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:37 am
by albundy
They won't fit and don't even bother trying. You aren't allowed to drill holes in the chassis. When I had my terrano I used the factory nissan hooks with no problems. Passed numerous club safety inspections and also pulled out alot of heavier trucks with them. Bought a second one, turned it upside down and mounted it on the passenger side as well. If you replace the factory bumper with a bullbar then you will find you could mount them to that.
AL
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:40 pm
by Jerry
You will find people won't accept you on hooks with unrated hooks.....go and see Marty (Stinky) 384 4141 and he can sort out mounting these properly.
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:56 pm
by SupraLux
albundy wrote:You aren't allowed to drill holes in the chassis.
Thats interesting... never been pulled up on that before... I know some people get shakey about welding to the chassis, or trimming of the chassis, but drilling holes? I'd be surprised if anyone even noticed, let alone pulled you up on it...
Steve
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:19 pm
by Madaz
Not allowed to drill holes in chassis???
Cant see it , most tow bars need holes drilled in chassis and theres no problem there.
If you can put in crush tubes or sandwich plate your hook mount I cant see how there would be a issue.
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:50 pm
by disfordog
Jerry wrote:You will find people won't accept you on hooks with unrated hooks.....go and see Marty (Stinky) 384 4141 and he can sort out mounting these properly.
Is this 'Stinky' fellow in wellington? I might have to pay him a visit...
Here is the CCVC club standard...
Introduction to Snatch Recoveries
Minimum Standards for Mounting Tow Hooks
Specifications For Tow Hooks
RE: Terrano/Pathfinder...
Maybe some L shaped 10mm steel so that the new rated hook would keep the same orientation as the factory hook. Drill one side of the L to the chassis bolt pattern and the other side of the L to the rated hook pattern.
But - are the factory captive chassis nuts up to the job - and - is it possible to drill the chassis and weld another captive nut in there so that the L plate will have 3 bolts to the chassis...
Are there any CCVC Terrano owners on here with pics of their 'regulation' setups? Or any other club saftey standards? Experiences?
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:31 pm
by Jerry
The CCVC towhook spec is not the ORE towhook standard, CCVC is a different club. We don't promote the CCVC spec as the ORE standard. the ORE requirements are that it must pass inspection by the trip leader who will check it at the start of a trip.
The CCVC spec I understand is on their website as a guide for others. so there is nothing stopping you use this as this is a good spec and over engineered.
Don't use factory hooks as these are rated as tie down hooks only, Factory hooks will break and end up on the other end of the strop. and will easily go thru a vehicle.
Stinky is in Wellington and is one of the ORE hook fitters, there are others as well if you want...Carl @ 4wd Services and G Guy motors, PM me if you need more info.......
I will be running a training day very soon....
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:42 am
by albundy
Thats interesting... never been pulled up on that before
Good point Steve, but I discussed this point with the cert man when I saw him down at Rick's last. Would hate to be pulled up on it one day.
Don't use factory hooks as these are rated as tie down hooks only, Factory hooks will break and end up on the other end of the strop. and will easily go thru a vehicle
I think this is a bit OTT Jerry. You seen those factory Nissan hooks? I am not referring to the tie down points
They are fine to use. I still use one on my safari.
Al
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:36 am
by doddzee
albundy wrote:I think this is a bit OTT Jerry. You seen those factory Nissan hooks? I am not referring to the tie down points
They are fine to use. I still use one on my safari.
Al
These hooks can break under side loads and do not straighten. Personally i wouldnt want one of these hooks flying at my truck when im trying to recover them. It insnt that hard for someone to fit rated hooks on the front of a nissan if they are handy with a mig.
Some interesting info i forun on outerlimits that JTop wrote
Thats not outback ideas fault, they just used the bolts that came with some generic hook they bulk bought.
Just tested some more hooks this week.
Std 3/4 towball broke @ 8.15 tonnes
Snatchmaster chrome hook broke M12 8.8 1.75 pitch bolts at 7.12 tonnes
Supercheap Ridge Rider black hook with NO rating on bolts broke the hook @ 8.57 tonnes and the bolts were seriously distorted, near failure.
BlackRat black hook broke the hook @ 5.54 tonnes
BlackRat chrome hook Straightened @ 5.27 tonnes, so no metal projectile only the rope.
Pintle hook with 4 M10 x 1.75 bolts, ie rear mount on GQ, pulled threads @ 12.71 tonnes
Pintle hook with 4 M12 x 1.75 bolts stalled the test rig @ 20.14 tonnes.
All these hooks were supported well past the last bolt which means they stood a higher loading than if they were able to bend straight after the last bolt.
Isuzu Bighorn factory hooks with 10mm bolts pulled the bolts @ around 4 tonnes and when drilled to 12 mm broke the hook @ around 6.2 tonnes.
Think about these missiles when doing your hooks, sites on the net quote
500kph velocity at 8 tonnes stretch/break
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:32 am
by SupraLux
Jerry wrote:The CCVC towhook spec is not the ORE towhook standard, CCVC is a different club. We don't promote the CCVC spec as the ORE standard. the ORE requirements are that it must pass inspection by the trip leader who will check it at the start of a trip.
Point of order, mr speaker... ORE is not a club, its a forum... I believe there may be some obscure group of ORE forum members who formed into a club, but I'm pretty sure that its not called ORE.
As for the Nissan Missile hooks, yes I've heard they are dangerous under side-loads despite their overall massive undestructability... Which is probably their downfall since the idea of a hook is that it SHOULD straighten under maximum load conditions.
But thats some interesting info JTop posted... seems like a: a towball is damn near as strong as most GOOD hooks, and b: cheap hooks are damn near better than name brand ones, and c: since one batch is likely to bear no resemblence to the previous batch when they are being made en-masse in China you can pretty much say that no-one will ever know how good their hook is until they put it in a load-tester and destroy it to see...
Damn the lot, lets just all build monster trucks and never get stuck
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:13 am
by H2OLOVA
SupraLux wrote:Point of order, mr speaker... ORE is not a club, its a forum... I believe there may be some obscure group of ORE forum members who formed into a club, but I'm pretty sure that its not called ORE.
Pull your head in Steve! You just love stirring the pot don't you. Anyway theres no point building a monster truck if you never drive it........
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:40 pm
by Jerry
The point I am making is that we should'nt be encouraging other prople to use unsafe factory hooks, all us experienced guys (and chicks) know this, for the sake of a couple of $17 hooks get them and get them fitted properly....
As for the CCVC reference (which I am also a member) someone has been telling thr committee that I have been recommending that we use their hook specs as ORE specs. I have never raised or suggested this. I don't really care as I have told the committee what was actually recommended and they are ok with it....and if this person keeps doing it I will happily bale him up at clubnight in front of everyone.
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:49 pm
by doddzee
Jerry wrote:and if this person keeps doing it I will happily bale him up at clubnight in front of everyone.
Club night needs some excitement
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:55 pm
by Jerry
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:59 pm
by doddzee
I didnt have a little incident, at the request they are not going to surface at the moment either.
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:46 pm
by SupraLux
H2OLOVA wrote:Pull your head in Steve! You just love stirring the pot don't you.
Fully retracted now, thankyou... and ummm... yes
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:54 pm
by xj
A bit off topic... but....
SupraLux wrote:Jerry wrote:The CCVC towhook spec is not the ORE towhook standard, CCVC is a different club. We don't promote the CCVC spec as the ORE standard. the ORE requirements are that it must pass inspection by the trip leader who will check it at the start of a trip.
Point of order, mr speaker... ORE is not a club, its a forum... I believe there may be some obscure group of ORE forum members who formed into a club, but I'm pretty sure that its not called ORE.
As for the Nissan Missile hooks, yes I've heard they are dangerous under side-loads despite their overall massive undestructability... Which is probably their downfall since the idea of a hook is that it SHOULD straighten under maximum load conditions.
But thats some interesting info JTop posted... seems like a: a towball is damn near as strong as most GOOD hooks, and b: cheap hooks are damn near better than name brand ones, and c: since one batch is likely to bear no resemblence to the previous batch when they are being made en-masse in China you can pretty much say that no-one will ever know how good their hook is until they put it in a load-tester and destroy it to see...
Damn the lot, lets just all build monster trucks and never get stuck
But yet for $55.00 you get............................... (quote)
Paid site membership plus membership of the ORE 4x4 Association. This gives access to insurance on organised ORE 4x4 Association trips, if you are not already a member of the NZ4WDA.
Why ever would i need insurance for a Forum????????????????????????
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:02 pm
by disfordog
Thanks Jerry!
I think it's a great idea that CCVC have made their club spec publicly available as a guide... It gets peeps like me thinking! Even if it may be considered over-engineered by some... I'd rather not have my hooks how i like my steak, under-done...
My apoligies too, I didn't mean to suggest in any way through my posting of those PDF links that ORE endorses the CCVC hook mounting standard... Feel free to have the links removed if they generate a conflict of interest... I was using them as a refference to generate some feedback...
A few years back i had Grant, Karl and Pedro all do some great work on my old 'yota that I ended up writing-off. I went to see Karl about my Terrano hook issue a couple of months ago and just wanted to see how some other Terrano guys are running their 'Rated Hooks' so as to have some other reference points for options before I put mine in the shop...
i haven't really wheeled the Terrano seriously cos of the factory hooks, and being too busy, but i can obviously squeeze in a couple of long-winded forums!
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:08 pm
by Jerry
I wasn't having a go at you for putting up about the specs, its a shame that some people don't research things or read the previous posts before they put their 5 cents before giving us their view.