I seem to recall seeing this photo some time ago (also as an anti 4WD message). Seem to recall it was something to do with the west coast of the South island.
Could be wrong though.........
If you can't place the Toyota what about the white vehicle behind.......Isuzu maybe.......??
bruce mason 's artical in hearld
Ralfie wrote:I seem to recall seeing this photo some time ago (also as an anti 4WD message). Seem to recall it was something to do with the west coast of the South island.
Could be wrong though.........
If you can't place the Toyota what about the white vehicle behind.......Isuzu maybe.......??
Nah, not an Isuzu, Spare tyre is on the wrong side...
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
If you go here and download scan.jpg you can open in a photo prog and blow up...its clearly a 70 series cruiser
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... s-proceed/
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... s-proceed/
70 series prado (KZJ78) and 90 Series Prado (KZJ95)
Toyota drivers aye 
wont catch a nissan doing that 
but seriously this guy sounds like and idiot 
dose he own a real 4wd or a fendalton tractor (ponsimby if in auckland) is he a member of any club and do we have people on here in the same club 
if so do any of the senior members of the clubs know about this BS
wont catch a nissan doing that but seriously this guy sounds like and idiot dose he own a real 4wd or a fendalton tractor (ponsimby if in auckland) is he a member of any club and do we have people on here in the same club if so do any of the senior members of the clubs know about this BS Its NOT a whale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more like a large seal
(021) 02388443
(021) 02388443
Love that cat pic! Groovy!! :thumright:
If Bruce Masson is so concerned about the land and it's treasures??
Why doesn't he put some efforts into stopping the use of 1080 for gods sakes!! We're the only country in the world still using it and producing it! Hello? What damage is that stuff doing? Honestly?
If Bruce Masson is so concerned about the land and it's treasures??
Why doesn't he put some efforts into stopping the use of 1080 for gods sakes!! We're the only country in the world still using it and producing it! Hello? What damage is that stuff doing? Honestly?
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PeterVahry
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Auckland
PeterVahry wrote:There's been no immediate published response to the article at this stage but it's still early days.
I notice that it is now at the bottom of the list in the online motoring section... a sure sign that it is 'not' a popular article.
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?
I've consulted a few relevant people about this article (not the response)and the general consesus is to just ignore it, if you respond to it with an article then it will make it popular....at the moment his article shows that he talks a pile of s##t...its just a series of unanswered questions
If he keeps slagging us off then we maybe need to think about it....at the moment we need to keep an eye on him and what pics he is using.
One of the comments is that he is a researcher for RANZ....ok well he basically is RANZ (or should that be RANTZ).
Also any response gives him potential further ammunition to use against us....
Its like that TV3 Doco last year.....it was pretty obvious that there are flaws in the arguments presented. Most non 4wd people I spoke to recognised that it was a load of bollox.
Remember also anything we post up here is readable by him and his greenie mates......such groups are known to frequently monitor 4wd sites and forums......
If he keeps slagging us off then we maybe need to think about it....at the moment we need to keep an eye on him and what pics he is using.
One of the comments is that he is a researcher for RANZ....ok well he basically is RANZ (or should that be RANTZ).
Also any response gives him potential further ammunition to use against us....
Its like that TV3 Doco last year.....it was pretty obvious that there are flaws in the arguments presented. Most non 4wd people I spoke to recognised that it was a load of bollox.
Remember also anything we post up here is readable by him and his greenie mates......such groups are known to frequently monitor 4wd sites and forums......
70 series prado (KZJ78) and 90 Series Prado (KZJ95)
Re: NZFWDA Reply to Bruce Mason
Hi everyone,
The NZFWDA has been working away in the background and thanks to Peter Vahry there is now a reply. The NZFWDA is holding off publishing this, but would like your views on it.
[quote]4x4 response to Bruce Mason
An emotive piece in the NZ Herald by walking advocate and long-time lobbyist Mr Bruce Mason, does highlight several problems that 4x4 recreation faces.
There is general agreement that in any community there are some people who don’t conform to some social expectations. Example abound of the effects of recreational walkers impacts on our world. The Department of Conservation released their “Conservation Actionâ€
The NZFWDA has been working away in the background and thanks to Peter Vahry there is now a reply. The NZFWDA is holding off publishing this, but would like your views on it.
[quote]4x4 response to Bruce Mason
An emotive piece in the NZ Herald by walking advocate and long-time lobbyist Mr Bruce Mason, does highlight several problems that 4x4 recreation faces.
There is general agreement that in any community there are some people who don’t conform to some social expectations. Example abound of the effects of recreational walkers impacts on our world. The Department of Conservation released their “Conservation Actionâ€
It is a good reply and as much as I was itching to write something back and confront with facts, I realised you can never change anybody's mind - particularly the closed kinds. Its useless to argue facts with somebody who is arguing emotions.
Bruce has an agenda, thereby he is devoid of all rational thinking and logic. Its no different than any other person with a strong bias towards whatever they believe in. We live in a democracy and he is entitled to his opinions, right or wrong. At the same time, it can ignored be once or twice but if it persists, it has to be countered appropriately.
Bruce has an agenda, thereby he is devoid of all rational thinking and logic. Its no different than any other person with a strong bias towards whatever they believe in. We live in a democracy and he is entitled to his opinions, right or wrong. At the same time, it can ignored be once or twice but if it persists, it has to be countered appropriately.
I think the rebuttal is good, but could go with a bit more punch. The civil emergency stuff could really be expanded with examples, as without 4wdrivers, alot of agency assistance would not happen. For example, if it wasn't for the 4wd emergency crew organised through the local 4wd clubs, Christchurch hospital would not have doctors and nurses to care for sick patients as they are unable to get to work when the snow hits. The floods up north a few years back- 4wdrivers assisted gretaly in that too. Also the big sth island snow dump of last year, it was 4wdrivers out there getting district nurses, medication, food, fuel etc out to the population that otherwise would have been up the shit.
Reply to him I say and let the fun begin. I think this is how we should attack these sort of idiots, highlite how stuffed this country would be in an emergency without us. The army are hopeless as christchurch found out in the snow of '92. Civil defence and the government tell us through all types of media that if the shit goes down, you are on your own for at least three days. This country needs 4wdrivers more then ever.
Al
Reply to him I say and let the fun begin. I think this is how we should attack these sort of idiots, highlite how stuffed this country would be in an emergency without us. The army are hopeless as christchurch found out in the snow of '92. Civil defence and the government tell us through all types of media that if the shit goes down, you are on your own for at least three days. This country needs 4wdrivers more then ever.
Al
rain, hail, sleet or snow, we go!
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Leithfield
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:00 pm
I consider Peter's proposed reply balanced and well constructed, however in this circumstance I believe any reply risks nurturing public perception that there is indeed a case to answer and facilitates a platform for those opposed to our recreation. Mason's article is provocative, ill informed, and devoid of an evidence base other than prejudiced anecdotes.
I suggest that his entire motive was to initiate 'trial by media', and to offer any reponse only infers a crediblity that is non existent. Sometimes the most effective display of 'contempt absolute' is registered by silence.
I suggest that his entire motive was to initiate 'trial by media', and to offer any reponse only infers a crediblity that is non existent. Sometimes the most effective display of 'contempt absolute' is registered by silence.
Last edited by Leithfield on Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bruces thing
yes the manakau club are doing a beach clean up with the Karatahi surf club this sunday
89 safari, pto winch, 33x15 simexs. sliders,75mm lift . turbo intercoolered
Re: bruces thing
coxsy wrote:yes the manakau club are doing a beach clean up with the Karatahi surf club this sunday
This is what needs to be in the papers. Shows there is more to 4WDing than a lot of people think/see.
The pic says it all really, a muddy track in a forestry block as an example of the wanton destruction caused by 4wds? Give me a break.
Have these people never seen what a pine forest looks like after it's been harvested? 35" Simexs are nothing compared with a chained up big-ass skidder or dozer towing a bunch of trees.
Clint
Have these people never seen what a pine forest looks like after it's been harvested? 35" Simexs are nothing compared with a chained up big-ass skidder or dozer towing a bunch of trees.
Clint
UZJ71 Landcruiser
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Jeep J20 - 1UZ-FE powered (part owner)
KTM 640
If it breaks, build it stronger.
If it doesn't break, drive it harder.
Clint wrote:The pic says it all really, a muddy track in a forestry block as an example of the wanton destruction caused by 4wds? Give me a break.
Have these people never seen what a pine forest looks like after it's been harvested? 35" Simexs are nothing compared with a chained up big-ass skidder or dozer towing a bunch of trees.
Clint
Yeah man, thats a point have been tryin to make for a while on ORE, alot of the places we play in the top half of the nth Is are pine forest blocks, which are destined for the type of destruction you mentioned
I bugs the hell outa me when you see something like the pic in the article thats clealy on a forestry block, and they slam 4x4's for the damage to tracks or native vegetation. Wait till logging starts, theres usually nothing alive left standing with in 10m of a water course
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??
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kiwiphilip
- Winch master
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Wellington
I agree with those who say "do not respond".
Negative publicity can not be overcome by pointing out that it is erroneous.
Rather all efforts should go into ensuring that positive publicity is generated highlighting the good works that four wheel drivers are involved with, such as clean up weeks, assisting search and rescue, supporting local councils with open days in regional parks etc.
Some years ago when I was trained to appear on programmes like Fair Go I was counselled to constantly repeat the good news that I had as, in the words of the trainer, when people wake up tomorrow all they will remember is what you said, not how well you tried to counter some one else's negative comments.
Philip
Negative publicity can not be overcome by pointing out that it is erroneous.
Rather all efforts should go into ensuring that positive publicity is generated highlighting the good works that four wheel drivers are involved with, such as clean up weeks, assisting search and rescue, supporting local councils with open days in regional parks etc.
Some years ago when I was trained to appear on programmes like Fair Go I was counselled to constantly repeat the good news that I had as, in the words of the trainer, when people wake up tomorrow all they will remember is what you said, not how well you tried to counter some one else's negative comments.
Philip
Philip Orchard
Nissan 1988 GQ SWB, Snorkel, 50mm OME Kit, 33" BFG MTs, Factory PTO Winch, Tirfor TU16 Winch, Hi-Lift Jack etc.
Nissan 1988 GQ SWB, Snorkel, 50mm OME Kit, 33" BFG MTs, Factory PTO Winch, Tirfor TU16 Winch, Hi-Lift Jack etc.
On another note aswell, there are magazines published with pictures that could potentially be equally as damaging as the one posted in the article. You only have to casually glance through the latest issue of 4x4 Action Magazine to jump to the same conclusions that Mr Mason does in his article.
My point is that his article is point less. Its nothing new, he hasn'tgot any sneaky photo's of people being naughty, its just a photo no different to whats already out there in every day media, all he's doing is expressing his personal and as some one said earlier "biased" opinion to suit his personal adgenda.
I for one am becoming increasingly hesitant to post my pic's and write reports from trips for fear of potential repocussions (sp?) such as misrepresentation of the likes of that article or unfounded critisim from other forum members.
Where am i going with this??
At this stage it seems that we as 4wheelers are all being painted as inresponsible people causing harm to the areas we love to use to recreate.
Its generating a "Guilty untill proven Innocent" feeling.
Why would we intentionally damage the areas available to us undertake our chosen form of recreation?? ' Its not like we want to be locked out of them, so it makes sense that we would all be looking after them, as we all do.
Its like saying to a rubgy team, "don't damage the grass, it might turn muddy" or a car club rally " don't spin your wheels, you might disturb the surface of the road and create erosion"
So yeah, a pointless article thats best not responded to. I'm sure everyone thats read it see's it for what it really is.
My point is that his article is point less. Its nothing new, he hasn'tgot any sneaky photo's of people being naughty, its just a photo no different to whats already out there in every day media, all he's doing is expressing his personal and as some one said earlier "biased" opinion to suit his personal adgenda.
I for one am becoming increasingly hesitant to post my pic's and write reports from trips for fear of potential repocussions (sp?) such as misrepresentation of the likes of that article or unfounded critisim from other forum members.
Where am i going with this??
At this stage it seems that we as 4wheelers are all being painted as inresponsible people causing harm to the areas we love to use to recreate.
Its generating a "Guilty untill proven Innocent" feeling.
Why would we intentionally damage the areas available to us undertake our chosen form of recreation?? ' Its not like we want to be locked out of them, so it makes sense that we would all be looking after them, as we all do.
Its like saying to a rubgy team, "don't damage the grass, it might turn muddy" or a car club rally " don't spin your wheels, you might disturb the surface of the road and create erosion"
So yeah, a pointless article thats best not responded to. I'm sure everyone thats read it see's it for what it really is.
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??
A solution to the problem of whether to respond is to not respond directly to his article but wait a short while then publish some good pr piece. We have heard all the good we as 4wders have done and yes there are dickheads everywhere in all sports and recreations (11 year old rugby plaer with glass in his hand for the hand shakes after the game springs to mind - should we ban all rugby too?).
The problem with a balanced article is that no one wants to read it. Sensationalism sells paper and papers are full of adverts which is why they are printed. unfortunately a fluff piece on how great we all are isnt considered news worthy neither is any good news story for that matter. When was the last time you saw something of a good news story on tv news or in the paper? If at all it would be one of those fill in peices to get them to the ad break or fill a small spot in the back pages.
By all means print something good about our recreation but not just yet and dont go after this clown. It as others have said just gives him the right of return and then we have a tit for tat argument that will do nothing for us but reinforce his veiws.
Heath
The problem with a balanced article is that no one wants to read it. Sensationalism sells paper and papers are full of adverts which is why they are printed. unfortunately a fluff piece on how great we all are isnt considered news worthy neither is any good news story for that matter. When was the last time you saw something of a good news story on tv news or in the paper? If at all it would be one of those fill in peices to get them to the ad break or fill a small spot in the back pages.
By all means print something good about our recreation but not just yet and dont go after this clown. It as others have said just gives him the right of return and then we have a tit for tat argument that will do nothing for us but reinforce his veiws.
Heath
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hinsonberger
- Bush Crasher
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:00 pm
- Location: Thames
I'm gonna stick my neck out here...
Am I the only one around here that thinks pictures like this:
play right into the hands of the anti-4WD groups & do us no favours at all?
I also think the argument that anything goes on private land is a pretty weak one that doesn't really help.
Anyone??
Am I the only one around here that thinks pictures like this:
play right into the hands of the anti-4WD groups & do us no favours at all?
I also think the argument that anything goes on private land is a pretty weak one that doesn't really help.
Anyone??
Ninety 2.5P
Discovery 300Tdi
Discovery 300Tdi