Offroad-Express

I think i need another comparasin im still not convinced

Are you comparing apples with apples here bulletproof, what are the specs of the other vehicles? Lockers, tyre size etc?
How long is your wheelbase?

In defense of the Cruiser i'd have to say that last clip was more about ground clearance (under the diff) than wheel base. As for putting it on its side well thats the drivers fault not the trucks (its been my fault 3 times )

I personally think a lot of the videos don't show that the longer wheelbase is better, but that better lines may have been picked, more momentum, more power etc

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

Jeez you are funny Leithfield, what a load of bull sh*t, but then again it may have some merit, yeah, could be dead right

DaveM wrote:I personally think a lot of the videos don't show that the longer wheelbase is better, but that better lines may have been picked, more momentum, more power etc

You are right on with your judgement. The first of these was merely entertainment value and wasn't trying to say anything.

In an earlier post talking about I made the statement that .Gearing is just as important. Andi had just fitted 35x11.5 extreme treekers and I had 35x12.5 BFGs. So his tyres were slightly higher than mine

Andi has a 1KZ motor but because the he still had his 4.3 diffs the gearing was wrong and subsequently lacked power and momentum.He has now changed that to 4.88 and it is a totally different truck.

Cheer Richard

[quote="doddzee"]I think i need another comparasin im still not convinced

Yeah,,Keep posting vidios,,Don't need anymore proof,, Just MORE VIDIO..

mudzilla wrote:
Yeah,,Keep posting vidios,,Don't need anymore proof,, Just MORE VIDIO..

i second that

Enjoying the clips - I notice with my cruiser that weight has a lot to do with it. My friend has a MU and he's lots lighter and that has its advantages (except when he's trying to pull me out) but he's always spending time working on it, just broke a CV on sunday. The hiluxes are a lighter vehicle but of course not as strong. Now that you have put the stronger gear in it but still have the lighter body it suits that type of terrain and makes a nice vehicle out of it.

rokhound wrote:Jeez you are funny Leithfield, what a load of bull sh*t, but then again it may have some merit, yeah, could be dead right

Always interesting to take pause for a wee bit of philosophy Rok.

Leithfield wrote:Always interesting to take pause for a wee bit of philosophy Rok.

Bring back Bazil!

Xmas 2007 we sent a short wheel base back to Christchurch on a trailer with a damaged transfer case because it couldn't hack the pace.



Cheer Richard

Not fair Richard, it's Keiths Jeep

Was that a Jeep by any chance Richard????

fweddy wrote:The hiluxes are a lighter vehicle but of course not as strong.

This is a common statement that amuses me.
Axles on lux are the same diameter and spline as the cruiser.
CV's on lux (when compared against 60 series any way) are stronger. The flat to get the cv bell in is bigger on a 60 series, hence the wall is thinner, therefore weaker.

Diffs on 40 series to 70 series are 9 inch, Lux is 8 inch. Cruiser is stronger. 80 series though has an 8" diff in front (not sure about the rear).

Drive shafts and UJ's are the same on both.

Gearboxes are the big difference, Cruiser's run larger bearing and shafts and are regarded as all round as being stronger (and they probably are) Strange then that i managed to blow a std 5 speed cruiser box with a std 2h diesel (95 hp approx) Yet my std hilux gear box (W56, designed for a 2lte diesel) has seen two 2.8 twin cam supras (5m's), one 3.0 twin cam (6m) and currently has a 5.0 ltr injected V8 placed in front of it and has never given up the ghost?

Yes I agree that overall the Cruiser is a stronger vehicle, but i don't believe that it is as massively stronger as some would like too think.

Once again, Sorry Richard, but your thread seems to be the only one that has useful banter going on

(edited for atrocious grammar )

rokhound wrote:

fweddy wrote:The hiluxes are a lighter vehicle but of course not as strong.

This is a common statement that amuses me.
Axles on lux are the same diameter and spline as the cruiser.
CV's on lux (when compared against 60 series any way) are stronger. The flat to get the cv bell in is bigger on a 60 series, hence the wall is thinner, there fore weaker.

Diffs on 40 series to 70 series are 9 inch, Lux is 8 inch. Cruiser is stronger. 80 series also has an 8" diff in front (not about the rear.

Driveshafts and UJ's are the same on both.

Gearboxes is the big difference, Crusier's run larger bearing and shafts and are regarded as all round as being stronger (and they probably are) Strange then that i managed to blow a std 5 speed cruiser box with a std 2h diesel (95 hp approx) Yet my std hilux gear box (designed for a 2lte diesel) has seen two 2.8 twin cam supras (5m's), one 3.0 twin cam (6m) and currently has a 5.0 ltr injected V8 placed in front of it and has never given up the ghost?

Yes I agree that overall is Cruiser is stronger vehicle, but i don't believe that it is as massively stronger as some would like too think.

Once again, Sorry Richard, but your thread seems to be the only one that has useful banter going on


Quite right in 40, 50, 60 and 70 series

you don't have to be sorry for your comments.When I bought the hilux nearly everyone had cruisers and said my truck was too light for tough 4 wheel driving and wouldnt last,I have since proved them wrong so I agree completely with what you say. Most cruiser stuff is the same size
That is why I tell people with prados to fit cruiser stub axles and go back to the aisin hubs instead of fitting the spacers that shear bolts all the time. I think the 106 hilux is the same as well.

If you do this there is one thing to watch for. Look in the bush end of the stub axle. Some have a seal besides the bronze bush that stops water getting from swivle hub to the bearings.

This one dosen't but you can see the area I am talking about.


The gearbox out of the 2LT is probably the same as the 130 box I have and is miles stronger than a std hilux box.

I have the high pinion 8 inch diff which is stronger than a hilux as well with bigger CVs.

Keep posting because we learn from guys like you with experience

Cheers Richard

Bulletproof wrote:That is why I tell people with prados to fit cruiser stub axles and go back to the aisin hubs instead of fitting the spacers that shear bolts all the time.

I beleive Mr Delis commented on me breaking the bolts in my hubs... then two weeks later he broke his (even though he'd done his properly)

IMO the spacers are a cheap option and for most club stuff are fine. But for anything serious, you should really swap the hubs and stubs. I have now sheared bolts on 4 different occasions, all on the side that has the superwinch hub. The one with the replica ASIN has had no issues.... The superwinch hub was installed as I chewed the inside out of an ASIN hub and it was again the cheap (only thing I could afford) option

Doing the Hub/stub swap has been on my todo list since before I bought the Prado as it was listed as a weak point in my research.

wjw wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:That is why I tell people with prados to fit cruiser stub axles and go back to the aisin hubs instead of fitting the spacers that shear bolts all the time.

I beleive Mr Delis commented on me breaking the bolts in my hubs... then two weeks later he broke his (even though he'd done his properly)

IMO the spacers are a cheap option and for most club stuff are fine. But for anything serious, you should really swap the hubs and stubs. I have now sheared bolts on 4 different occasions, all on the side that has the superwinch hub. The one with the replica ASIN has had no issues.... The superwinch hub was installed as I chewed the inside out of an ASIN hub and it was again the cheap (only thing I could afford) option

Doing the Hub/stub swap has been on my todo list since before I bought the Prado as it was listed as a weak point in my research.

Hi Bill
After Paul lectured you on how to it the proper way, he kept very quite about shearing the bolts on his. It wasn't until I received the Canturbury Landrover owners mag I found out.

Cheers Richard

PS Did you get Janets DVDs of the trip

Sort of on topic....Richard, how do you find the Hilux compares with the Prado's (such as Bills), do you find they are fairly similar capability wise if running the same lift/tyres etc?
I know someone who wants a hilux, but doesn't like leaf springs, so would the Prado be a good choice instead? This is just me assuming you have done a few trips with these vehicles, which may or may not be the case.


Cheers,
Dave

You could just refit your old electric hubs with my conversion [ best of both, no spacer rings, and Asian Hubs ] actualy I do have a set of hubs on the shelf that are converted complete with stud etc.

DaveM wrote:Sort of on topic....Richard, how do you find the Hilux compares with the Prado's (such as Bills), do you find they are fairly similar capability wise if running the same lift/tyres etc?
I know someone who wants a hilux, but doesn't like leaf springs, so would the Prado be a good choice instead? This is just me assuming you have done a few trips with these vehicles, which may or may not be the case.


Cheers,
Dave

Hi Dave
The long wheel base Prado's Go very well when set up and modified.I would say Paul delis's prado is very capable and nearly as good as the hilux. Paul would say it the other way round but it's not true.
Bills truck goes well too but is not as modified as Pauls.
I have never seen a short Wheel base one go any good. No articulation about 375mm std.

Cheers Richard

More comparisons Xmas 2007. This time a boulder infested bog



Andi and Paul in long wheelbases also drove this.

Cheers Richard

Are the things that are stopping those trucks wheelbase, rampover or diff clearance??

wheel base has nothing to do with that bit

H2OLOVA wrote:Are the things that are stopping those trucks wheelbase, rampover or diff clearance??

Hi Jase
Probably a bit of each.

It was mainly clearance under the gearbox cross member that was the problem. But this is is one of the arguments in favour of a Short.
You would enjoy that track from tailings to costello hill.

Cheers Richard

Bulletproof wrote:PS Did you get Janets DVDs of the trip

Unfortunately not... could you PM me your bank details and I'll send you some money for a copy? I can copy it and give one to Al too.. Should be getting Rude's DVD tomorrow so can make some copies of that at the same time.

DaveM wrote:Sort of on topic....Richard, how do you find the Hilux compares with the Prado's (such as Bills), do you find they are fairly similar capability wise if running the same lift/tyres etc

IMO, having ridden in both. It's all about whats important. If you want straight bang for buck, go the Hilux, if you want comfort and space for lots of kids go the Prado.

Although I was looking for a Double Cab hilux originally, but not being able to find one for love nor money (upto 16K at the time) I ended up going for a Prado. Back then, they only people who had them were Paul Delis and Linda Simpson.

oldblue wrote:You could just refit your old electric hubs with my conversion [ best of both, no spacer rings, and Asian Hubs ] actualy I do have a set of hubs on the shelf that are converted complete with stud etc.

I should probably have done that years ago... but I'm already too far down the track. My drivers side hub is completly F***'d

Cheers,

Bill

Bill, as I said this is a converted pair complete with all bolts etc , would sell outright with no exchange.
Would suit someone that wants to go back to the orginals but has knacked there old ones.

wjw wrote:

DaveM wrote:Sort of on topic....Richard, how do you find the Hilux compares with the Prado's (such as Bills), do you find they are fairly similar capability wise if running the same lift/tyres etc

IMO, having ridden in both. It's all about whats important. If you want straight bang for buck, go the Hilux, if you want comfort and space for lots of kids go the Prado.

Cheers,

Bill

When you say bang for buck, I see the Prado's are relatively cheap compared to a hilux of the same year/milage, and
I would have thought the rear coil end on the Prado would have superior articulation to a hilux (unless $$$ are spent?), and perhaps the same for the front unless you do as Richard has done?
Richard, how is the Safari setup you run different to the Prado, is it a better setup, and can the Prado run the same setup?
Sorry for the O/T, just really interesting to see how well the lwb do go, as when I got into the sport, I was always under the impression that swb was superior.


Cheers

cool__bananas wrote:wheel base has nothing to do with that bit

It has by the fact that not many peolpe with shorts raise their trucks to the same degree as longs because std have better approach and departure angles. The down side is they dont have clearance under the gear box. I have 600mm under mine which is a hell of an advantage.


Here is a picture of a lifted nissan on 35s and look at clearance under gearbox and here is my hilux and they wonder why they hang up
That nissan was just hung up on that log that a lot of us just drive over.



Here is my hilux



Cheers richard

DaveM wrote:When you say bang for buck, I see the Prado's are relatively cheap compared to a hilux of the same year/milage, and I would have thought the rear coil end on the Prado would have superior articulation to a hilux (unless $$$ are spent?), and perhaps the same for the front unless you do as Richard has done?

From what I've seen it's cheaper to get more articulation out of leaves than out of coils... Just look at the falcon swap people do. It does mean you need beam axles though. One other thing, the diesel prados are going up in price due to the new import rules.. I don't think thats hit home yet, but it will. In the end its all about what you want... I costed up my truck yesterday and to get it back upto the same spec if I bought a Prado today, would cost about 30K. Thats including everything. But if I did it today, I would stick with the 1KZ.

oldblue wrote:Bill, as I said this is a converted pair complete with all bolts etc , would sell outright with no exchange.
Would suit someone that wants to go back to the orginals but has knacked there old ones.

Thanks for the offer, but the holes that the bolts go into are stuffed so I really do need everything and I should have a package sitting at Ricks from Just Cruisers with everything I need.