lifts laws to be inforced

[Twodiffs]

I think the point HH is making, if the drop boxes aren't certified, then it's not legal (you gave the impression they aren't certed). If it's not legal, who deems the truck safe?
Do the wof issuers pass the vehicle knowing it should be certed?

I've run drop boxes on 3 Safari's, all from Superior Engineering, and have no doubts that they are safe, but also know that means SFA in the big scheme of things if it's not certed.

Not a personal attack, as I agree with it being BS having to pay for a full cert for this type of thing, but an illegal truck is an illegal truck. There probably plenty of people out there who don't think they should cert their vehicles because they think they are safe, or parts are made by a reputable company.

If wof or cert issuers let people away with it, then the LTSA needs to spend more time looking at whether they should be issuing them.

All good with me DaveM...you've got the lot correct there.

[Twodiffs]

:lol:
Two Diffs, with uncerted mods your vehicle is as illegal on the road as mine would be , mine is on a trailer when on the road where it belongs, I don't drive it on the road
No I'm not ignorant, I can be a tad annoying however I apologise if I upset you, just engaging in good honest debate for the benefit of all, don't take things personal I was making a point of what you had to say about being safe...and having uncertified mods , I thought it was a valid point, not a personal attack at you at all
Once again don't be offended Jamie, no offence intended.
cheers
Tim

Alrighty thanks Tim..I'm pleased to know I read too much into it
and glad it's sorted. My truck is fully legal if I remove the dropboxes. The cert guy looked at the drop boxes, looked at the statement from the supplier and said it was ok with him and he had no issues with the dropboxes and would happily cert them for x amount of dollars. To pay 400 smackeroos for a signature...sorry but I think that is highway robbery!

When they get sensible and adjust any amendments to a reasonable amount then i'll get it added. So at the end of the day I'm running the gauntlet like various others and if I have a prang whether it be my fault or not then my insurance company has probably got an automatic 'out' from any insurance claim.

Cheers dude
Jamie

[STIC]

Probably wont help but...

I have owned American cars, but when i looked into joining a club, i was put off by the members.

All i wanted to do was drive my Plymouth/Chev/whatever and maybe get a few contacts for parts, mods etc...but, everyone had a real anal attitude, and conformity was paramount so i didn't join a club.

Move forward a few years and i owned a few (5) modified Subarus...Again, i wanted to make some contacts for parts, info etc, but i only ever participated in online club activities after attending a "real club meet' as i found the members, again, had very defined idea's as to what a club member should be/do etc.

Lucky for me, as several of the cars were running fully adjustable suspension and were all at least 50-60mm lower than standard, i was able to get them certified WITHOUT having to be an official, paid up member of a car/subaru club...

Although the last Subaru i owned was a factory built WRC homologation model with (factory deleted abs, airbags, front subframe), thinner sheet metal, hand built 20% higher output engine etc... was fitted with adjustable suspension, wide rims and tyres and ran 25PSI (increasing output to almost 35% over stock models) I used it as my daily driver and never raced it in any event or at any track meet.

I was NOT required to PROVE i used this car as a 'Race car' in order to get a certification for the mods, and indeed, i could not have, as i didn't perform the mods for racing; just better performance, better handling and better road grip, all making for a safer, more capable family car.

Now, i own a '91 Safari LWB high roof, and i have begun to modify that too. I have used the truck off road, and enjoyed the trips but i want to lift it (3-4 inch) and put larger tyres on it.

I have no more interest in joining a 4WD club than i did joining any others in the past; does this mean that i have no right to perform these (otherwise legal and certifiable) mods because i can't justify my reasons for doing so as 'playing in some mud with other people'?

p.s.

Not belonging to a NZ4WDA affiliated club didn't stop me from getting LVVTA certification for my modified vehicles before...why should it now?

[Mudde1]

I have no more interest in joining a 4WD club than i did joining any others in the past; does this mean that i have no right to perform these (otherwise legal and certifiable) mods because i can't justify my reasons for doing so as 'playing in some mud with other people'?

p.s.

Not belonging to a NZ4WDA affiliated club didn't stop me from getting LVVTA certification for my modified vehicles before...why should it now?

it appears that the mods you have done in the past came within the thresholds for certification, there fore any one can do those mods, and have them certified. if you had wanted to do mods that were beyond the threshold, it would have been different. As I have said several times, You will not need a NZFWDA authority card for a moderate lift below the threshold. NZFWDA members will be able to apply for an authority card, allowing them more extreme lifts. That is a benefit of belonging to any sort of club, you get the benefits of that club, in exchange for agreeing to their rules. If you don't want to abide by the rules of that club, that's fine, but you don't get the benefits
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA
Tony Burgess

[hippy_]

it appears that the mods you have done in the past came within the thresholds for certification, there fore any one can do those mods, and have them certified. if you had wanted to do mods that were beyond the threshold, it would have been different. As I have said several times, You will not need a NZFWDA authority card for a moderate lift below the threshold. NZFWDA members will be able to apply for an authority card, allowing them more extreme lifts. That is a benefit of belonging to any sort of club, you get the benefits of that club, in exchange for agreeing to their rules. If you don't want to abide by the rules of that club, that's fine, but you don't get the benefits
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA
Tony Burgess

As I currently own a car that I got cert'd years ago. Bigger engine, box, basically the whole drive line suspension brakes seats exhaust etc........ I didnt need to join a car club to get it cert'd or to drive it on the road or even to get it fully insured.

But yet, if I wanted to lift my truck above the 100mm limit you guys have imposed on us, just so a few can control who can and who cant have an over 100mm lift and to top it off, your group will profit from the extra members.

Were has my freedom of choice gone???

Granted your group has gone into bat for 4X4 people all over the country, but if I dont join you guys Im cant get a lift over 100mm??? To me that stinks of something very very bad.

Totally puts me off getting more involved with any official 4X4 organization.

I have two words for you chaps and I am sure you can work out what they are.

[coxsy]

''But yet, if I wanted to lift my truck above the 100mm limit you guys have imposed on us, just so a few can control who can and who cant have an over 100mm lift and to top it off, your group will profit from the extra members''

its not the nzfwda who is imposing the lift rules, but land transport , so why sling off at nzfwda who are working to get system in place to help its members,
is strange at the lest.

[Mudde1]

Were has my freedom of choice gone???

Granted your group has gone into bat for 4X4 people all over the country, but if I dont join you guys Im cant get a lift over 100mm??? To me that stinks of something very very bad.

Totally puts me off getting more involved with any official 4X4 organization.
.

What freedoms of choice have we taken off you?? We did not make the rules, we simply informed our members of the changes to the rules made by government departments. Whats the problem with that?

[Swamped]

This won't be affecting me but I think people want to be able to lift their trucks as high as they want and still be certed but feel the assoc is capitalising on things by making it that if you go over yay height then you have to be a member of the assoc. Some people will see this as revenue gathering....

Its going to be hard for you to gain some peoples trust as it appears (not to everyone) that your not remaining a neutral body as the assoc may benefit due to the requirement of joining.

This also makes certain vehicles more difficult to sell which will bug people too.

Is it 100mm +/- a certain amount?

[jakwoo39]

so is the nzfwda saying that only people in these clubs go off road. i dont belong to a club and still manage to get out every few weeks

[coxsy]

why do you say the ''nzfwda says''
the goverment is inforcing the rules on lift end of story, the certifyers, a sick of seeing dangerous trucks they are presented with to cert,and want a max lift written in law.
nzfwda is trying to help its members who want more lift,if your not a member you get nothing over 100mm as stated by the goverment not anyone else

[DaveM]

the certifyers, a sick of seeing dangerous trucks they are presented with to cert,and want a max lift written in law.

What a load of crap. The vehicles being presented for cert won't change. If they are worried about the safety of them, they wouldn't cert them. Where does it state the new "limit" for lift heights now?

[Mud Hog]

Its not the trucks that are dangerous its the D### heads that drive them like there rice burner and take no account or consideration into the modifications. Too often you see 4wds rolled in a ditch for no good reason. I think there maybe some good in the new laws, but would have been better if the current laws were inforced properly. Rant over.

[Mudde1]

Its going to be hard for you to gain some peoples trust as it appears (not to everyone) that your not remaining a neutral body

NZFWDA don't claim to be a neutral body. NZFWDA exists for the benefit of its members and work for the benefit of members.

[coxsy]

going to read comic's and gain some sence as there is little in this thread again

[hippy_]

its not the nzfwda who is imposing the lift rules, but land transport , so why sling off at nzfwda who are working to get system in place to help its members,
is strange at the lest.

I totally understand that it is the LTSA or whatever they call themselves these days.

Its how the NZFWDA or its members on here have handled/reacted to the situation.

By forcing all people who want to lift there trucks above 100mm limit to join a club and get a weetbix license.

What freedoms of choice have we taken off you?? We did not make the rules, we simply informed our members of the changes to the rules made by government departments. Whats the problem with that?

Problem is you guys informed your members, not the general population of 4X4 people out there who dont surf the forums. Your group took away there choice, there freedom of choice. Just like what the government department did.

Yet you want them to look on you guys as hero's??? Get real, most people will now look on your group like an arm of a government department.

why do you say the ''nzfwda says''
the goverment is inforcing the rules on lift end of story, the certifyers, a sick of seeing dangerous trucks they are presented with to cert,and want a max lift written in law.
nzfwda is trying to help its members who want more lift,if your not a member you get nothing over 100mm as stated by the goverment not anyone else

The guys certifying 4WD's, Rally Cars or what ever comes into there workshops, have the right to not certify the 4WD, car or whatever.

Its going to be hard for you to gain some peoples trust as it appears (not to everyone) that your not remaining a neutral body

NZFWDA don't claim to be a neutral body. NZFWDA exists for the benefit of its members and work for the benefit of members.

Your group has totally lost all my trust/support/good will etc....

going to read comic's and gain some sence as there is little in this thread again

If this is the typical attitude of a member of the NZFWDA, then Im very very worried about the future of 4X4 in NZ.

[DieselBoy]

There is no new law, just better definition and enforcement of existing laws and rules, and for those who qualify, an exemption will become available which , again is issued to us under existing legislation.

What he's saying is there are to be no law changes. So nothing is changing apart from the NZ4WDA wanting to clip the ticket as you get a cert.

The same rules we have all been operating under for years still stand, as they are specified by the LTSA.

[wjw]

The guys certifying 4WD's, Rally Cars or what ever comes into there workshops, have the right to not certify the 4WD, car or whatever.

They can't refuse a cert just because they don't like the look of you.

[muddyhilux]

one thing ive just noticed is every ones talking about body lift and sus lift,but could someone clarify tyres.say i lift my truck 4 inch all in suspension im going to be ok,but if i do that along with changing from 29s(standard on a surf) to a 35 that's in theory another 3inches of lift making a total of 7inches higher than standard taking me over the 100mm limit.is that how it will be seen?cheers

[Mudde1]

one thing ive just noticed is every ones talking about body lift and sus lift,but could someone clarify tyres.say i lift my truck 4 inch all in suspension im going to be ok,but if i do that along with changing from 29s(standard on a surf) to a 35 that's in theory another 3inches of lift making a total of 7inches higher than standard taking me over the 100mm limit.is that how it will be seen?cheers

Sorry, but it is not possible to answer your question at the moment as details haven't been set as yet. We are aware of situations such as yours (which is very common) and are trying to negotiate the best option we possibly can. How the lift is measured is one of the main sticking points. if you want to see the proposels they are available to members and you can make suggestions and proposals of your own. Just PM me with your name and club and i will send them to you.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

[Mudde1]

Problem is you guys informed your members, not the general population of 4X4 people out there who dont surf the forums. Your group took away there choice, there freedom of choice.

are you seriously suggesting that NZFWDA, which is a private organization that is funded by its members, should inform every 4x4 owner in NZ of up coming changes?? how are we going to identify those people? who is going to fund that? who is going to do the work? there are thousands of private organizations who are funded by members who only send information to members( NZ hot rod, nz deer stalkers, nz motorcaravan, nz vintage car, federated farmers, nz anglers, option 4, master builders to name a few) . we are no different.
if you wish to be on our mailing list and gain access to the benefits of being member of NZFWDA brings with out joining your local club that is possible. just PM me with your details and I will explain the process and cost involved.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

[lincooln]

so for all of those people that dont like NZFWDA i guess you will be happy then with a max lift of 100mm and that's it. No more, no matter what you do or who you belong too.

Sounds some what like people are jealous of members in the NZFWDA for getting added benefits.

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

so for all of those people that dont like NZFWDA i guess you will be happy then with a max lift of 100mm and that's it. No more, no matter what you do or who you belong too.

Sounds some what like people are jealous of members in the NZFWDA for getting added benefits.

I dont think your statement is correct, whats there to be jealous about? What are the so called benefits you speak of? Clubs arent for everyone and just not possible for some people.

[badnuz]

my 2 c.....

i have a young guy as a "customer". 91 IFS Surf. wants to do a 3 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift to run 35s and charge around some sand dunes.

he doesnt and wont join ANY club .

therefore legally he cant run the mods he wants to do.

GREAT!!!!

because its IDIOTS like him giving us all a bad name.

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd) is targeting the current laws. and there is probably 10 IDIOTS like this guy for every 1 "proper" 4x4 driver. do the maths on that and see that 10 MUPPETS wont be able to get their "modified" trucks legal, therefore not go out and create a bad image for 4x4 in NZ

as DB stated earlier (in a kinda way) if you have over 100mm lift join KIWI4x4 and you will be fine !!


and no, im not a member of any 4x4 club, affliated or not...

what you need to realise is this rule is aimed at the "hoon" 4x4 driver. bit like helmet laws in the days, or seatbelt laws, or any other law designed to help reduce loss of life in motor accidents etc etc.

obviously one law is NEVER going to suit EVERYONE.....

[kbushnz]

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd)

Its probably not "assistance" but more like trying to moderate the rules from Govt to make them at least somewhat useable for us 4x4ers.

If there ends up being a fish hook or two to get extreme lifts...So be it. Better than none at all. Which is easy for the LTSA to do. Blanket ban....

Calvin

[lincooln]

so for all of those people that dont like NZFWDA i guess you will be happy then with a max lift of 100mm and that's it. No more, no matter what you do or who you belong too.

Sounds some what like people are jealous of members in the NZFWDA for getting added benefits.

I dont think your statement is correct, whats there to be jealous about? What are the so called benefits you speak of? Clubs arent for everyone and just not possible for some people.

Oh yea I fully understand that some people can not simply join a club as they are too far away etc. But these days that's no hold back. As has been said, join Kiwi4x4.

The the benefits of being in NZFWDA are, insurance, a voice on the LTSA or whatever it is, if this law comes in this too will be a benefit, and there are more but I cant think of them at the moment. I probably sound like a muppet re reading my post

[DieselBoy]

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd)

Its probably not "assistance" but more like trying to moderate the rules from Govt to make them at least somewhat useable for us 4x4ers.

If there ends up being a fish hook or two to get extreme lifts...So be it. Better than none at all. Which is easy for the LTSA to do. Blanket ban....

Calvin

You guy's still don't get it do you!!!!


Read the thread


There are NO law changes being made by the government.


There are NO new rules being made by the government


Simple as that.


NO NEW LAWS


Even Mudde1 stated that.

All that's being proposed is that the NZ4WDA wants a piece of the pie when you get your cert.

By piece of the pie, I mean you have to justify your need for a 50mm+ lift by proving that you are a NZ4WDA member and have been for over a year.

Thats all.

No new laws, no new rules.

Just NZ4WDA trying to clip the ticket on 4WDers wanting to lift and cert their trucks.

The government aren't changing anything, its the NZ4WDA looking for compulsory membership.

How can I put it any other way???

[DaveM]

my 2 c.....

i have a young guy as a "customer". 91 IFS Surf. wants to do a 3 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift to run 35s and charge around some sand dunes.

he doesnt and wont join ANY club .

therefore legally he cant run the mods he wants to do.

GREAT!!!!

because its IDIOTS like him giving us all a bad name.

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd) is targeting the current laws. and there is probably 10 IDIOTS like this guy for every 1 "proper" 4x4 driver. do the maths on that and see that 10 MUPPETS wont be able to get their "modified" trucks legal, therefore not go out and create a bad image for 4x4 in NZ

as DB stated earlier (in a kinda way) if you have over 100mm lift join KIWI4x4 and you will be fine !!


and no, im not a member of any 4x4 club, affliated or not...

what you need to realise is this rule is aimed at the "hoon" 4x4 driver. bit like helmet laws in the days, or seatbelt laws, or any other law designed to help reduce loss of life in motor accidents etc etc.

obviously one law is NEVER going to suit EVERYONE.....

Sorry, but I still can't see how you think the roads will be a safer place. This person can still drive a vehicle with a lift over 4", there is nothing to stop that. If the vehicle is deemed safe by a certifier, how is it any "safer" if he were a club member?

Where are the statistics to prove this will reduce the road toll? I've never heard of Police asking at an accident involving a 4wd whether or not they belong to an affiliated club.
Do you think that being a member of an affiliated club makes you a safer driver? Is the customer of yours going to be less of a "hoon" by sticking to 100mm lift?

Have you heard officially that the whole reason behind this is to remove the "hoons" or is it just taking us one step closer to permanantly dropping the allowable vehicle height?


It's been pointed out many times, that this will do nothing to improve safety. If it were about safety, the certifiers would be looked at a lot closer.

[coxsy]

[Do you think that being a member of an affiliated club makes you a safer driver? Is the customer of yours going to be less of a "hoon" by sticking to 100mm lift?]

yes in someway as a club we are there for each other, and help each other, had lots of tips from my fellow members and give the same back,
also the nzfwda is not after new members if you want to join do so if not your problem,

[STIC]

my 2 c.....

i have a young guy as a "customer". 91 IFS Surf. wants to do a 3 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift to run 35s and charge around some sand dunes.

he doesnt and wont join ANY club .

therefore legally he cant run the mods he wants to do.

GREAT!!!!

because its IDIOTS like him giving us all a bad name.

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd) is targeting the current laws. and there is probably 10 IDIOTS like this guy for every 1 "proper" 4x4 driver. do the maths on that and see that 10 MUPPETS wont be able to get their "modified" trucks legal, therefore not go out and create a bad image for 4x4 in NZ

as DB stated earlier (in a kinda way) if you have over 100mm lift join KIWI4x4 and you will be fine !!


and no, im not a member of any 4x4 club, affliated or not...

what you need to realise is this rule is aimed at the "hoon" 4x4 driver. bit like helmet laws in the days, or seatbelt laws, or any other law designed to help reduce loss of life in motor accidents etc etc.

obviously one law is NEVER going to suit EVERYONE.....

If you have such a low opinion of this 'customer' and his intended use of modified vehicle, you could always just say no to doing the work...

And, there already IS one law that suits everyone...if you want to go to a certain limit, that's ok, anything over this has to be examined by a certifier and judged to be safe...

Now though, with the proposed changes to how this law is enforced, even IF it is deemed safe and a certifier has no problem with it, you still cant have it certed UNLESS you have joined an nzfwda sanctioned club...

nzfwda sanctioned club members havent gotten any extra benifits...non members have just had their rights removed...

The sole reason for the certification system was to make a government enforced system available to cover non standard modifications to vehicles, whereby their safety and engineering could then be judged on a case by case basis, outside of the blanket rules for normal WOF inspections.

Now, not only do you need to have mods certed, but you MUST also belong to a sanctioned 4wd club and maintain that membership at all times or have your accepted and certified mods status revoked...

This helps 4wd owners how?

Sorry to burst the nzfwda bubble, but not EVERY owner of a lifted 4WD feels the need to prove his manhood by joining a club and journeying out to the middle of nowhere just to take photos of his truck perched with one wheel on a tree stump!

As i posted earlier, just because i owned a factory built homologation special, and further modified it to improve it's performance, doesn't mean i wanted to (or was required to) take it to the track and race it...

The country is full of people who don't necessarily share your tastes or hobbies or affiliations...this should not BAR them from having their vehicle lifted above 100mm!

Next i'll find out i have to surrender my Canon L lens unless i join the NZPA (new zealand press association)...

[wopass]

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd)

Its probably not "assistance" but more like trying to moderate the rules from Govt to make them at least somewhat useable for us 4x4ers.

If there ends up being a fish hook or two to get extreme lifts...So be it. Better than none at all. Which is easy for the LTSA to do. Blanket ban....

Calvin

You guy's still don't get it do you!!!!


Read the thread


There are NO law changes being made by the government.


There are NO new rules being made by the government


Simple as that.


NO NEW LAWS


Even Mudde1 stated that.

All that's being proposed is that the NZ4WDA wants a piece of the pie when you get your cert.

By piece of the pie, I mean you have to justify your need for a 50mm+ lift by proving that you are a NZ4WDA member and have been for over a year.

Thats all.

No new laws, no new rules.

Just NZ4WDA trying to clip the ticket on 4WDers wanting to lift and cert their trucks.

The government aren't changing anything, its the NZ4WDA looking for compulsory membership.

How can I put it any other way???

i think everyone is still stuck on the thought of "new lift laws" bro...

im sure it will sink in eventually that there are no actual new laws... maybe