lifts laws to be inforced

[LOLYF]

As i posted earlier, just because i owned a factory built homologation special, and further modified it to improve it's performance, doesn't mean i wanted to (or was required to) take it to the track and race it...

Try putting a rollcage in it then see what happens
In case your slow I'll spell it out..... you'll need an authority card

Try lexan windows....same result

Try running your hotrod fenderless....same result

want to run a ridiculous lift.....now you'll need an authority card

It's all pretty simple and many vehicle enthusiasts need authority cards, now it's our turn (if you have a ridiculous lift) as has been said many times before the alternative is no lifts at all

[coxsy]

oh true wopass, should of put the heading up as'' lift laws will be inforced''.

[J_Dub]

is the repeat button stuck on

[DaveM]

[Do you think that being a member of an affiliated club makes you a safer driver? Is the customer of yours going to be less of a "hoon" by sticking to 100mm lift?]

yes in someway as a club we are there for each other, and help each other, had lots of tips from my fellow members and give the same back,
also the nzfwda is not after new members if you want to join do so if not your problem,

How does this help exactly? There is no doubt this support is great for learning to drive off road, but how does this help on road? How does this make our roads safer? It's already been said that this is NOT about making the roads safer
Have the NZ4WDA told you that this is a big step to making the roads safer?

I've seen a convoy of trucks from a club travelling between tracks on the road at well over 100km/h, when we saw them the next day, they were in a rush to make the most of the daylight. So how does this improve road safety?

I don't plan on going over a 4" lift, so this probably won't affect me, but why do people keep bringing up the "safer roads" arguement?

THIS is the type of thing that gives 4wders a bad name, you see this coming around a corner towards you and think WTF, but its legal.....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 840970.htm

[crazyclark31]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-ca ... 840970.htm[/quote]
funny cause my mate had one of these lifted the same way but on standard axles. Funny enough it was surprising how stable it was. at a club rally we were driving sidlings the other lower trucks were tipping over on. Goes to show that each case needs to be assesed on its own and not as a general group.

sorry back to the topic..............

[coxsy]

well one certer must of driven the lift truck for a drive and found it good and safe for road use

[DaveM]

well one certer must of driven the lift truck for a drive and found it good and safe for road use

So how can you say that certifiers are whinging about the height of vehicles that they certify, if they are the ones that deem them safe

[coxsy]

hey pm with your troubles, its eaiser and this is going nowhere

[DaveM]

I have no troubles, but you don't show any evidence to back up your arguement.
Again, have you been told by the NZ4WDA that the requirement for being a member of an affiliated club when running a lift over 100mm is being introduced primarily to lower the road toll?

Which certifiers have told you they are sick of certifying dangerous vehicles and want to limit the lift height? (which incedently, will not change anyway)

Simple questions, obviously you can answer them which will shed some light on your views on this. All I'm trying to see is if your comments are actual fact, or just an opinion.

[badnuz]

my 2 c.....

i have a young guy as a "customer". 91 IFS Surf. wants to do a 3 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift to run 35s and charge around some sand dunes.

he doesnt and wont join ANY club .

therefore legally he cant run the mods he wants to do.

GREAT!!!!

because its IDIOTS like him giving us all a bad name.

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd) is targeting the current laws. and there is probably 10 IDIOTS like this guy for every 1 "proper" 4x4 driver. do the maths on that and see that 10 MUPPETS wont be able to get their "modified" trucks legal, therefore not go out and create a bad image for 4x4 in NZ

as DB stated earlier (in a kinda way) if you have over 100mm lift join KIWI4x4 and you will be fine !!


and no, im not a member of any 4x4 club, affliated or not...

what you need to realise is this rule is aimed at the "hoon" 4x4 driver. bit like helmet laws in the days, or seatbelt laws, or any other law designed to help reduce loss of life in motor accidents etc etc.

obviously one law is NEVER going to suit EVERYONE.....

Sorry, but I still can't see how you think the roads will be a safer place. This person can still drive a vehicle with a lift over 4", there is nothing to stop that.other than its illegal If the vehicle is deemed safe by a certifier, how is it any "safer" if he were a club member? becasue the theroy is he will be "trained" in 4x4 use

Where are the statistics to prove this will reduce the road toll? I've never heard of Police asking at an accident involving a 4wd whether or not they belong to an affiliated club.how many police do you talk to about this?? the ones i speak with have mentioned it is looked into...
Do you think that being a member of an affiliated club makes you a safer driver? Is the customer of yours going to be less of a "hoon" by sticking to 100mm lift?

Have you heard officially that the whole reason behind this is to remove the "hoons" or is it just taking us one step closer to permanantly dropping the allowable vehicle height?i have heard from certain people that this is a contributing factor, but bear in mind its the GOVERNMENT that wants these laws enforced..


It's been pointed out many times, that this will do nothing to improve safety. If it were about safety, the certifiers would be looked at a lot closer.

it will give ceritifers better guidlines (like bodylifts being specifcally noted as needing cert)


DB i havent stated that the rules are changing just they are "targeted" (respect your opinion thou fella)

also as for my "customer" we ARE NOT doing the work....

and finally, as mentioned in my post, if young "customer" cant get his ride certified, he wont be out ripping up sand dunes and other actvities that i wont mention on a public forum.. working in a 4x4 shop ( and having ARB dealers throuought the north island) i hear stories etc all the time of modified 4x4s and how they shouldnt be on the roads....

and its also possible that there is a bit of FORWARD thinking from the Govt that if the current trend of hoons in hugely modified 4x4s continues then it will defetantly become a road toll issue, most of teh biy ricers moving to 4x4s may not neccesarilay be able to drive a high lift 4x4...

and as a note, a few OME kits go greater than 50mm lift so you would think i would appose this rule due to potential sales losses but i can see some long term merit in most of what it is trying to achive. from my understanding the NZ4WDA was approached to assist in this upcoming process ( althought thats just my understanding from talking to a few select people from both sides (NZ4wd exec and LVV cert controllers))

but all this is my opion based on talking with a few key people. take it/leave it/flame it i dont care my SS Holden isnt over 100mm lifted

[coxsy]

I am reporting what we as a club were told after the national convention, sorry don't know any certers yet trucks not finished. I am not a lawyer , also see no need to prove anything,
and again you have your view of this i have mine we will not see it the same way so i will quit this endless bullshit run
thanks

[DaveM]

I am reporting what we as a club were told after the national convention, sorry don't know any certers yet trucks not finished. I am not a lawyer , also see no need to prove anything,
and again you have your view of this i have mine we will not see it the same way so i will quit this endless bullshit run
thanks

And I will try to get info from a reliable source

[DaveM]

my 2 c.....

i have a young guy as a "customer". 91 IFS Surf. wants to do a 3 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift to run 35s and charge around some sand dunes.

he doesnt and wont join ANY club .

therefore legally he cant run the mods he wants to do.

GREAT!!!!

because its IDIOTS like him giving us all a bad name.

this is the prime reason the Govt (with assistance from NZ4wd) is targeting the current laws. and there is probably 10 IDIOTS like this guy for every 1 "proper" 4x4 driver. do the maths on that and see that 10 MUPPETS wont be able to get their "modified" trucks legal, therefore not go out and create a bad image for 4x4 in NZ

as DB stated earlier (in a kinda way) if you have over 100mm lift join KIWI4x4 and you will be fine !!


and no, im not a member of any 4x4 club, affliated or not...

what you need to realise is this rule is aimed at the "hoon" 4x4 driver. bit like helmet laws in the days, or seatbelt laws, or any other law designed to help reduce loss of life in motor accidents etc etc.

obviously one law is NEVER going to suit EVERYONE.....

Sorry, but I still can't see how you think the roads will be a safer place. This person can still drive a vehicle with a lift over 4", there is nothing to stop that.other than its illegalNot illegal at all. If the vehicle has a "card" anyone can drive it, even an irresponsible hoon If the vehicle is deemed safe by a certifier, how is it any "safer" if he were a club member? becasue the theroy is he will be "trained" in 4x4 useAgain, how many clubs give training for the use of their vehicles on normal roads, such as cornering at speed etc?

Where are the statistics to prove this will reduce the road toll? I've never heard of Police asking at an accident involving a 4wd whether or not they belong to an affiliated club.how many police do you talk to about this?? the ones i speak with have mentioned it is looked into...I have made enquiries at several Police Stations as to whether this is looked into, and I have yet to find one that thinks this has any bearing on 4wd accidents.
Do you think that being a member of an affiliated club makes you a safer driver? Is the customer of yours going to be less of a "hoon" by sticking to 100mm lift?

Have you heard officially that the whole reason behind this is to remove the "hoons" or is it just taking us one step closer to permanantly dropping the allowable vehicle height?i have heard from certain people that this is a contributing factor, but bear in mind its the GOVERNMENT that wants these laws enforced..


It's been pointed out many times, that this will do nothing to improve safety. If it were about safety, the certifiers would be looked at a lot closer.

it will give ceritifers better guidlines (like bodylifts being specifcally noted as needing cert)From what has been said, there are NO changes to the rules in regards to cert requirements

[xj]

How about it goes a step further then, and cuts out all the grey areas:

THEORETICALLY:

a) It be deemed illegal to modify your vehicle yourself, ie you have to take it to a shop to get it done.

b) That shop cannot install a lift without having prior certification to do so, because if anyone tampers with the factory setup THEY are liable for any resulting issues. With prior certification, the installer is 100% covered against legal liability (unless of course they install something incorrectly)

By doing this everyone is assured modifications are done by professionals and (essentailly) the vehicle is safe.

From there anyone wanting to drive the vehicle needs an endorsement on their licence saying they are capable of doing so as tested by ltsa.

Therefore:
We have safe vehicles (isnt this what its about.. safe vehicles?)

We have licenced drivers (isnt that what this is about... safe drivers?)

We have revenue coming into the workshops helping them out and we have revenue coming in for the govt by having to pay for licence endorsements.

Nzfwda cant be accused of clipping the ticket, (which theyre not of course) and have no say in at at all.

There, easy.... no grey areas, all nice and tidy. No gilding of the nzfwda lily, and no feeble attempts at insidious politicking either.

The suggested proposal, if really about safety etc, seems to me to be half baked. If safety etc etc is really what this is all about, why arse about with limp weetbix cards??... why not do it properly and go the whole hog??

(flame away, no doubt soem will read and misconstrue the intent behind my thoughts.)

[LOLYF]

How about it goes a step further then, and cuts out all the grey areas:

THEORETICALLY:

a) It be deemed illegal to modify your vehicle yourself, ie you have to take it to a shop to get it done.

b) That shop cannot install a lift without having prior certification to do so, because if anyone tampers with the factory setup THEY are liable for any resulting issues. With prior certification, the installer is 100% covered against legal liability (unless of course they install something incorrectly)

By doing this everyone is assured modifications are done by professionals and (essentailly) the vehicle is safe.

From there anyone wanting to drive the vehicle needs an endorsement on their licence saying they are capable of doing so as tested by ltsa.

Therefore:
We have safe vehicles (isnt this what its about.. safe vehicles?)

We have licenced drivers (isnt that what this is about... safe drivers?)

We have revenue coming into the workshops helping them out and we have revenue coming in for the govt by having to pay for licence endorsements.

Nzfwda cant be accused of clipping the ticket, (which theyre not of course) and have no say in at at all.

There, easy.... no grey areas, all nice and tidy. No gilding of the nzfwda lily, and no feeble attempts at insidious politicking either.

The suggested proposal, if really about safety etc, seems to me to be half baked. If safety etc etc is really what this is all about, why arse about with limp weetbix cards??... why not do it properly and go the whole hog??

(flame away, no doubt soem will read and misconstrue the intent behind my thoughts.)

Are you smoking crak? (didn't want to let you down )

The authority card system works for all other forms of motor sport and motor recreation, So why change it just for us?

Why would a certifier pre cert a vehicle? That would be like getting a code compliance on a building before its built. I can see no way that would work.

[xj]

edit - double post

[xj]

All outa Crack... anyway that illegal and unsafe... so is Kronic, what are you going to do now?

Its quite simple.

Workshop a is approached by client with requirement, and parts/parts list/proposed parts and says "I want this done." Workshop goes to certifier and says "we have this vehicle, client wants this done, heres how we're going to do it." Certifier (who knows everything about everything to do with 4x4s) says "yep that'll be ok, we'll flick you a plate once its completed." Once the job is done, the workshop goes back to the certifier with paperwork showing the mod has been done as per the prior information submitted, the plate is then provided and placed on the vehicle.

Onus is then on the workshop to ensure what they have laid out to the certifier is done to that spec. If the workshop has cut corners and theyre found out theyre in the gun, if the certifier has approved something and the shop has fitted it correctly and something goes crook, the certifier is answerable for it. This totally eliminates bodgy back yard jobs and dodgy certifiers and WOF issuers.... well no it doesnt cause a dodgy WOF is a dodgy WOF regardless.... but if you can see through the haze of Kronic youll understand.

Annnyhoo.... Client gets his/her truck back all honky dory and tickety boo, 100% done correctly and everyone is happy.

No it wouldnt be like getting a code of compliance before building a building, it would be like getting plans checked and approved before issuing the building permit. Code of compliance parable would be providing the plate once the job was complete. Or it would be like doing a traffic management plan before blocking off roads (oh hang on thats whats done already) to local council or transit.

As for the licences.... if we currently have licence classes for different size trucks, surely it follows that if your 4x4 is suddenly bigger, handles differently etc then you could be tested as being capable of driving a different class of 4x4.

All easy really...... black and white

[hippy_]

Meh............... Im just going to do what I want to my truck. If and when I have to, I'll get it cert'ed.

The attitude show in this thread by some, has, like I said, totally put me off belonging to any 4X4 club in any official way.

To many rules, to much BS and the odd one or three trying to play god over the rest of the general population.

[Mudde1]

a) It be deemed illegal to modify your vehicle yourself, ie you have to take it to a shop to get it done.

b) That shop cannot install a lift without having prior certification to do so,

Don't say it too loud, it is something that has been suggested in road safety circles, and is common overseas. Unlikely to be introduced in NZ because of opposition from motor sport groups.

[xj]

a) It be deemed illegal to modify your vehicle yourself, ie you have to take it to a shop to get it done.

b) That shop cannot install a lift without having prior certification to do so,

Don't say it too loud, it is something that has been suggested in road safety circles, and is common overseas......

Yes Tony...... I know....

[DaveM]

Even with a pre cert, it still wouldn't stop people "adding" to their vehicles once the plate is on.
I've yet to have a WOF station physically check the mods match the plate, so I assume this will have to be looked at closer when enforcing the card system.

[u13turbo]

Again, have you been told by the NZ4WDA that the requirement for being a member of an affiliated club when running a lift over 100mm is being introduced primarily to lower the road toll?

I'd be interested to see how many deaths are caused due to vehicles lifted over 100mm.

Now, if i got 50mm lift springs, And made 49mm lift blocks, i would get away with just having a cert?

[Crash bandicoot]

oh doc has ruled only road worthy vehicles , wof reg , allow on their controled lands

I know this threads been going a while, but...
this has been the case for a long time, DOC land is public land, and in order to drive on it the vehicle in question must be of a WOF standard be registered and RUC'd(if applies).

Same with beaches, river courseways, etc.

AS the road rules state. if it accessible to the public, and you can drive a vehicle on it, it is treated as a road and there for the road rules apply.

[hosehustler]

I'm yet to come across an enforcement officer in the bush on the coast...will have to keep a vigil eye out .....perhaps they are elsewhere hunting speedsters and criminals , on second thought I did get caught and ticketed once on the coast with the trailer queen, I was doing 101kph downhill towing it

[Sadam_Husain]

I'm yet to come across an enforcement officer in the bush on the coast...will have to keep a vigil eye out .....perhaps they are elsewhere hunting speedsters and criminals

Not yet, well probably not for a while yet before beauracracy catches up on the coast. Its always been the case that you need to be road legal on doc land as the joker above said and up untill the past couple of years DoC hasnt perused controls or enforcement on it. We had DoC start enforcement here in 2010, I've got a bach in the bush on DoC land and we need permits to access it by vehicle and our permits now require evidence of wof and reg before a vehicle can be issued a permit the vehicle movements are subject to monitoring so if we dont play ball they have the upper hand to start making our access even more difficult and complient

Doc is far too under resoursed and has far too much publicly accessable land to be able to do much in the way of control and enforcement but dont think they havent done it in some places where they have easy means of control

[Big]

dont like that $85 / hr monitoring fee.. wtf..

[Pedro]

I'm yet to come across an enforcement officer in the bush on the coast...will have to keep a vigil eye out .....perhaps they are elsewhere hunting speedsters and criminals , on second thought I did get caught and ticketed once on the coast with the trailer queen, I was doing 101kph downhill towing it

ever come across other people/public on the coast?? They can take photos and ring the enforcement, so just because a uniform ain't there do not mean you WILL get away with it. We have areas here foxten beach you have to get permit and have to have a wof, killed most home built buggies, small kids on quads etc, and the permit requires you to list number plates on the trip.
the whole concept of lift authority annoys the crap out me, but so did "lifetime" licenses that got the law changed to 10 yrs before renewal, nzfwda is reacting to proposed law changes by the govt and its minions. Would you rather nothing was done and lifts were banned out right??
or a option put to one of the largest "recoginzed 4wd groups to come up with a compromise?.

pedro

[hosehustler]

I'm yet to come across an enforcement officer in the bush on the coast...will have to keep a vigil eye out .....perhaps they are elsewhere hunting speedsters and criminals , on second thought I did get caught and ticketed once on the coast with the trailer queen, I was doing 101kph downhill towing it

ever come across other people/public on the coast?? They can take photos and ring the enforcement, so just because a uniform ain't there do not mean you WILL get away with it. We have areas here foxten beach you have to get permit and have to have a wof, killed most home built buggies, small kids on quads etc, and the permit requires you to list number plates on the trip.
the whole concept of lift authority annoys the crap out me, but so did "lifetime" licenses that got the law changed to 10 yrs before renewal, nzfwda is reacting to proposed law changes by the govt and its minions. Would you rather nothing was done and lifts were banned out right??
or a option put to one of the largest "recoginzed 4wd groups to come up with a compromise?.

pedro

I don't know why you came up with the idea I was having a dig at the NZFWDA

Once upon a time I was interested in certs, rules and regs but slowly over time I had that beaten out of me. These days I don't give a farkin toss who has the authority to issue cards, where, when how or why they will be enforced, or whether you're "legally" entitled to be on the road, bush, beach, river or anywhere else in your club, click or whatever else you're into.

All I was saying is I hadn't come across an enforcement officer anywhere YET!

[Mudde1]

All I was saying is I hadn't come across an enforcement officer anywhere YET!

It is worthwhile noting that it is not just Police who can enforce WoF and registration requirements, Fisheries Officers and parking wardens employed by council can enforce WoF and registration offenses. Fisheries Officers even have the power to stop moving vehicles, which Parking wardens can’t do.
Tony.

[hosehustler]

oh great i'm going to get stopped by a fisheries officer for having a tadpole lodged in the simex's tread, a council officer issuing me a ticket for leaving my truck parked in the back blocks somewhere, and a tramper taking photographic evidence whilst a NZ4WDA rep is being contacted via satellite phone to respond immediately as I didn't have a lift authority card.
bugger me