Offroad-Express

Sadam_Husain wrote:Yep could be but you could also look at it the other way what percentage of 4WDs dont have a 100mm lift and that would be most of the 4WDs on the road

True, much like lifted vs no lift. Standard would be a far higher percentage also, so maybe we should make the lift limit to what has the highest percentage
Just pointing out, there may be some out there who may not realise they will be affected.

Sadam_Husain wrote:

DaveM wrote:

Sadam_Husain wrote:wouldnt have a clue but I think I could count all the ones I know on one or two hands so proportionaly probably a very small percentage

Could be more than you think. 80mm suspension lift, 35's, you are over. 2" suspension/2" body, 33's you are over.

Yep could be but you could also look at it the other way what percentage of 4WDs dont have a 100mm lift and that would be most of the 4WDs on the road

So again it depends on the detail, is the way of measuring lifts staying the same?

ok so why dont we have a show of hands of the people that this will actually affect?and what there thoughts are?i'll start,as im planning on getting a rollcage i most likely will need a card.is this a big deal to me? am i stressing out?no im not

wjw wrote:So again it depends on the detail, is the way of measuring lifts staying the same?

Nah from what I understand they will be measuring the lift from the centre of the hub to the bottom of the guard instead of measuring from the ground to the bottom of the guard so that suggests to me any increase in tyre size wont be included in the allowable 100mm lift

Nah from what I understand they will be measuring the lift from the centre of the hub to the bottom of the guard instead of measuring from the ground to the bottom of the guard so that suggests to me any increase in tyre size wont be included in the allowable 100mm lift

Its always been from the hub centre to the lip of the guard Tyres wont be included in the 100mm limit only suspension and body lifts. If you cut the guards then it will be up to you to prove where the unmodified lip was.

Sadam_Husain wrote:

wjw wrote:So again it depends on the detail, is the way of measuring lifts staying the same?

Nah from what I understand they will be measuring the lift from the centre of the hub to the bottom of the guard instead of measuring from the ground to the bottom of the guard so that suggests to me any increase in tyre size wont be included in the allowable 100mm lift

So in this case its not a problem for me or most of the guys I go out with.

cut guards......bugger

datsunsafari wrote:ok so why dont we have a show of hands of the people that this will actually affect?and what there thoughts are?i'll start,as im planning on getting a rollcage i most likely will need a card.is this a big deal to me? am i stressing out?no im not

Will affect me with one of my trucks. But again, I am already a NZFWDA member, so will incur only the additional fee for the card. The truck may just become a trailer queen while in my use anyway. Will make it harder to sell as a wof and reg truck when the time comes though.

It would be nice if NZ4WD Ass would actually tell us what lift limits they have recommended to NZTA ..but it seems they dont want to tell us.
Tony Burgess suggested a height prior to Aug 18 2011 but unfortunately he is "reluctant to make it public"

http://www.nzfwda.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=141

Seems kinda bizzare that the organisation that stands to make the most money out of this Auth card is also the organisation that is giving NZTA all the advice !!!!!

UBZ wrote:As I understand it .... there has been/will be no actual change in LAW by NZTA.
What is happening is a change in the interpretation of the current laws by the LVVTA... done in consultation with the NZ4WDA, under the pre-tense of road safety . Implying that this is not being driven from a government level.

that was a good post Chris, I've only quoted a bit of it coz thats the bit I want to reply to, to be honest I dont know if the proposed changes are driven as you've described or not but as I see it the changes are going to be happening whether anyone likes it or not.

We all know complience is a never ending grip that keeps tightening up on us its always been like that and it always will, I've seen significant changes and increasing complience during the 30 years I've had vehicles and its only going to continue getting tighter as its always driven by a real or percieved increased emphasses on safety, we all already know all that shit thats nothing new. We used to do engine conversions and chop and weld the shit out of everything and you'd just turn up for a wof afterwards no problem, my old SII LWB landy I had in the 1980s we chopped the chassis off behind the cab and welded another chassis on so I could get a wof , then they brought in the declarations for pre 1992 modifications and you had to get everything certed from then on, my first chevy conversion I got certified took 7 seconds to pass... it was so quick I thought I'd failed , no road test, no noise test no brake test he didnt even start it up they only checked the steering shaft clearance and accelarator linkages to pass me, try and get a repower cert like that now complience has tightened up a lot further since then.

If it was and I say "if it was" a case that the NZFWDA as 1 member of a 10 member panel on LVVTA is driving max lift restrictions do you not think that increasing compliences are going to catch up one way or the other and we're going to end up with max lift restrictions anyway so you could argue that the NZFWDA and LVVTA is being proactive by putting measures in place now to put in a pretty good allowable lift height of 100mm and implement an exemption system to exceed that if nessecary before the Govt waves its hand and implements something else that will probably be far more restrictive?

tomsoffroad wrote:

Nah from what I understand they will be measuring the lift from the centre of the hub to the bottom of the guard instead of measuring from the ground to the bottom of the guard so that suggests to me any increase in tyre size wont be included in the allowable 100mm lift

Its always been from the hub centre to the lip of the guard Tyres wont be included in the 100mm limit only suspension and body lifts. If you cut the guards then it will be up to you to prove where the unmodified lip was.

Nice. Was hoping it wasn't going to the extreme of the QLD rules

well i for 1 will be affected.ive got a surf with 6inch sus lift,2 inch body lift and on 35s,soon maybe even 37s. I'm also a regular user of it when its on the road,usually i get out at least once a month and go wheeling for a full weekend up the beach,in the bush & mates places etc.

as for how many will be affected i personally believe a lot more than currently realised.and i recon even you chris could be caught out when you get your truck to cert.

as mentioned how do they know standard vehicle heights?being its a law / imposed restriction they'l get their numbers a spreed sheet from the govt / lvvta.then for most guys a nice and tidy 2 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift will be suffice.but we all know springs arnt an accurate science out of the box therefore jo blogs does these mods,goes for a cert and hello you've lifted you're vehicle 110 maybe even 120mm.....you'll then require a auth card.STUNG

2nd senario- your trucks already lifted above 100mm,already certed.no worries.you've been driving it for years,great news you don't need a card,(this is where i fit in,ive already had 2 certs this way)then hello,you accedently roll it,then requiring new body and new cert.STUNG your over the lift and require a card even though your truck and your driving was perfectly fine

then this is what really gets me.if an auth car was simply join a club,put your name on the register and you've got your card,go have fun id happily pay the $25,id even pay $100 BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE

theyre now saying I have to be part of a club for a year
(even though I don't need to be in a club to go 4wdn,as above I do it regularly anyway,also think farmers here).
and on top of that they're saying I need to maybe attend club trips to keep a log to prove I'm active
(as above for years I and many have been active,but now we have to attend specific events just to prove this,or as some have mentioned from the si drive considerable distance to do so costing a lot more than the $25 fee)

as mentioned many times in my posts and hence the 2 certs my vehicles already had,im all for road safety,this just isn't going to help road safety and cost people more time and money for things they've always enjoyed

muddyhilux wrote:well i for 1 will be affected.

Me too. I'd bet quite a few terrano owners will, 2-3" body and 2"+ suspension is pretty common amongst the offroaders of these...

muddyhilux wrote:well i for 1 will be affected.ive got a surf with 6inch sus lift,2 inch body lift and on 35s,soon maybe even 37s. I'm also a regular user of it when its on the road,usually i get out at least once a month and go wheeling for a full weekend up the beach,in the bush & mates places etc.

as for how many will be affected i personally believe a lot more than currently realised.and i recon even you chris could be caught out when you get your truck to cert.

as mentioned how do they know standard vehicle heights?being its a law / imposed restriction they'l get their numbers a spreed sheet from the govt / lvvta.then for most guys a nice and tidy 2 inch body lift and 2 inch suspension lift will be suffice.but we all know springs arnt an accurate science out of the box therefore jo blogs does these mods,goes for a cert and hello you've lifted you're vehicle 110 maybe even 120mm.....you'll then require a auth card.STUNG

2nd senario- your trucks already lifted above 100mm,already certed.no worries.you've been driving it for years,great news you don't need a card,(this is where i fit in,ive already had 2 certs this way)then hello,you accedently roll it,then requiring new body and new cert.STUNG your over the lift and require a card even though your truck and your driving was perfectly fine

then this is what really gets me.if an auth car was simply join a club,put your name on the register and you've got your card,go have fun id happily pay the $25,id even pay $100 BUT ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE

theyre now saying I have to be part of a club for a year
(even though I don't need to be in a club to go 4wdn,as above I do it regularly anyway,also think farmers here).
and on top of that they're saying I need to maybe attend club trips to keep a log to prove I'm active
(as above for years I and many have been active,but now we have to attend specific events just to prove this,or as some have mentioned from the si drive considerable distance to do so costing a lot more than the $25 fee)

as mentioned many times in my posts and hence the 2 certs my vehicles already had,im all for road safety,this just isn't going to help road safety and cost people more time and money for things they've always enjoyed

If you are a serious 4 wheeler. Tell me how does a lift that high make your truck more capable ?

Cheers Richard

DEATH_INC wrote:

muddyhilux wrote:well i for 1 will be affected.

Me too. I'd bet quite a few terrano owners will, 2-3" body and 2"+ suspension is pretty common amongst the offroaders of these...

I thought that might be the case but wasn't going to say for sure and speak for someone else but you've just confirmed that

DaveM wrote:

LOLYF wrote:
Simply to get the wannabe's in their 8" lifted surfs that never go 4wheelin off the roads.

No card to say it gets used for purpose...No WOF

Shouldn't worry any real 4 wheeler for 2 reasons...they use their vehicles for what there built for and they probably don't have a stupid big "look at me" lift

While I find it amusing to see vehicles with high lifts that obviously never go off road, I see a lot more "wannabe's" with modified V8's or Jappa's that will never see a race track

True, but what happens when those guys put a cage or harnesses in their cars?...yep they need to join a club and get an authority card.

LOLYF wrote:

DaveM wrote:

LOLYF wrote:
Simply to get the wannabe's in their 8" lifted surfs that never go 4wheelin off the roads.

No card to say it gets used for purpose...No WOF

Shouldn't worry any real 4 wheeler for 2 reasons...they use their vehicles for what there built for and they probably don't have a stupid big "look at me" lift

While I find it amusing to see vehicles with high lifts that obviously never go off road, I see a lot more "wannabe's" with modified V8's or Jappa's that will never see a race track

True, but what happens when those guys put a cage or harnesses in their cars?...yep they need to join a club and get an authority card.

you don't have to join a club to have a cage in your car, just needs a cert. But yes that is how crazy this shit is a 16 year old can build an 800hp street car and when he wants to make it safer by adding a cage and harness people tell him na no way..

rangimotors wrote:you don't have to join a club to have a cage in your car, just needs a cert.

Any full cage, ie not a "half cage" needs an authority card which means you need to belong to a msnz affiliated club and do 2 events a year.

Thats as far as i know, but as with the lift laws theres lots of speculation and incorrect info out there

Imagine that same 16 year old builds a 6" lifted truck with 800hp...holy crap

Tom. Have you read the lastest doc as they are very vague with the whole thing. It opens the doors for all sorts of things with mods not just height. Be careful where you tread.
Nigel Bannan
Secretary/Treasurer
Combined 4WD Clubs Inc

Bulletproof wrote:If you are a serious 4 wheeler. Tell me how does a lift that high make your truck more capable ?
Cheers Richard

If it works for them, who really cares? Personally, I wouldn't go that high, but each to their own.

Tom. Have you read the lastest doc as they are very vague with the whole thing. It opens the doors for all sorts of things with mods not just height. Be careful where you tread.
Nigel Bannan
Secretary/Treasurer
Combined 4WD Clubs Inc

Pm'd

This now

What next

Hope this forum survives what is coming

Hi guys,

I'm looking at buying this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =493227548

I'm an Aussie wheeler just moved over and want to know what sort of headaches I'm in for. Nothing has been certed on this car but he has a fresh warrant - so I'm thinking he either has a dodgy warrant or this vehicle makes it under the laws?

Also, any advice on Surf's? This'll be my first one having come from a long line of 40 series Cruisers. I'm looking for a daily that'll mix it on the tracks. Is it worth $9k?

Thanks.

zephyrheaven wrote:This now

What next

Hope this forum survives what is coming

The forum will survive!

The question is - will we as forum/4wd club members be able to continue to use our trucks (low volume certed and legally) in the manner in which we have been able to without restriction!!

Or are we going to be asked to bend over and accept up the "kyhber pass" unnecessary annual fees and compulsory membership to NZFWDA which has little bearing on the South Island. In my opinion. I understand that the NZFWDA has a strong standing in the North Is but this involves the whole country.

As has been indicated, the possibility of this extending to vehicle modifications outside of lift height is very real and should not be dismissed
as sceptisism...stranger things have happened and anyone in NZ who feels strongly about this and who values their rights as individuals should stand their ground - or bend over.

So if I have to pay for my card then roll my lifted truck can I sue the card supplier.

klompy wrote:So if I have to pay for my card then roll my lifted truck can I sue the card supplier.

From what I can see, the card is issued as evidence that you actually use your vehicle for it's "intended purpose", and will have little to do with making sure it, or you are safe (of course if you drive like a muppet on trips, that may be reason to not issue another?).

Was it mentioned at the meeting what period they are looking at issuing cards for, and what criteria has to be met to be issued one?

klompy wrote:So if I have to pay for my card then roll my lifted truck can I sue the card supplier.

your taking the piss right?

Twodiffs wrote:
The question is - will we as forum/4wd club members be able to continue to use our trucks (low volume certed and legally) in the manner in which we have been able to without restriction!!

If your trucks already certed then you have nothing to worry about, this has only been stated about 100 times so far

muddyhilux wrote:

DEATH_INC wrote:

muddyhilux wrote:well i for 1 will be affected.

Me too. I'd bet quite a few terrano owners will, 2-3" body and 2"+ suspension is pretty common amongst the offroaders of these...

I thought that might be the case but wasn't going to say for sure and speak for someone else but you've just confirmed that

Funny thing is, mine still handles way better than the work cruiser with a 2" lift and rancho's. That's where all these stupid rules fall over...a 4" lift in a Landrover may be bloody dangerous, but in surfs and terrano's isn't that big of a deal. I size doesn't fit all.

DEATH_INC wrote: I size doesn't fit all.

Thats a very good point. Now i'm going to say this quietly so a certain someone dosen't hear, but what about a staggered lift allowance?

ie small trucks can have 3" lift medium trucks 5" lift and large trucks 7" lifts?

after all a suzuki with a 7" lift is stupid but a chevy silverado with a 7" lift is still pretty safe.