A Class Vitara, POS.

[Heath]

Just dies quick (like I had turned off the key). When I have some time I will get a couple of meters and put one on the coil and one on the fuel pump wires and watch the voltage (and use the timing light) to see if they all go dead at once.

Is there a cut out switch somewhere I should be looking for? Maybe something in the computer programme?

I will try to borrow another coil and see if that is the problem (if not then it eliminates it).

Anyone with a spare 16V coil I can borrow?

I assume the dizzy wont have any affect on the lack of spark other than transmitting it down whichever lead the rotor points at.

Could this be a cam angle sensor issue? Got asked the question on Outers but have no idea.
From outers also this question

"does it have a safety fuel cut?

had this problem on a after market elec pump before. the wire was a bad conection so it only ran the pump for 5 sec then cut the fuel because it thought the engine wasn't cranking over. left it for 5 min come back and the pump would work for 5 sec and cut out again and so would the engine.

check if your pump is cutting out after 5 sec or if its running when you turn the key on." Mine is a std in tank pump.

Heath

[Heath]

A few other things I found online. Are they relevant to my problem?

CAS pulse generator in base of dizzy must be good and sending signals to ECU.
ECU good.
power and GROUND ! good to ECU.
bad ignitor ( ecu drives the ignitor ( a big transistor ) and this pulses the coil for spark. so bad coil.

if yes how do I test for them?

Heath

[Rotazuk]

CAS is a cam angle sensor or Crank angle sensor , these are triggers that tell the ecu where the engine is in its revolutions and also how fast it is going , so the ecu knows when to fire which injectors and when to fire the coil . this relates to the late model g16a engine found in the cutlas and second generation vitaras at a guess .

Your ecu gets a signal from the distributor for engine speed , will be an optical triger , located in the same place the points are in a normal dissy . Your engine does not need to know when to fire which coil as the dissy does that for it , it just gets a signal to fire and were ever the rotor in teh dissy is pointing gets the spark ( but you knew that ) . The uel injectors are fired in pairs , all injectors get fired every revolution , thus it does not need to know whick valve is sucking in air .

In short you do not have a CAS .
Your fuel pump is not that smart , but check the voltages as you say and see if one drops first . be damed hard to tell thou .

Fiddle with it some more and se what you find out . Have a coil here if you want to come this far .

Chris

[Weemsy]

hey heath,
have you checked the belt hasnt slipped or something? you probably checked, but is the cam belt a shagged one or have you replaced it?
when i first replaced my belt i set the timing to the marks and it ran....for a few seconds then died, then wouldnt run again full stop.
i know mine was a different story cuz of the wrong gear etc but it had a similar symptom when the cam timing was too advanced.

just a stab in the dark
weemsy

[Heath]

The belt was new.

If I have to I will check that as well. (the list is getting bigger)

[Heath]

Okay I will say this a little quieter than last time so the zuk wont hear me showing off.

Got the vitara started today and ran without issues.

Only thing I did was put the batt on charge for 20 mins while I set up all the meters I was going to use. Maybe there was not enough power in the batt? Should be fine as it is an exide orbital battery and has shit loads of grunt. I hate these intermitant faults (or faults that go away on their own) cause you never know what caused it or if it will come back.

I was all set , 3 meters (on different circuits) and a timing light just to make sure. So I turned the key to get it to start for its obligatory 5 secs before it died and it ran ... without a hiccup (so far) ... and when I truned it off it restarted and ran again. I left it to get cold and then tried again. Agin no probs. Maybe I had a didgy connection or some moisture somewhere, buggered if I know, but it now goes (or did before i wrote this).

Still One step forward and that's all that matters.

Now I have to sort the brakes so I can make it stop. Then when the a frame arrives from Taupo I will get a muffler etc put on it to appease the neighbours. And then I will fiddle with the possition of the ECU and move the ignition to a push button in the centre console, relocate the battery, etc...

Did I just say one step forward? Seems like I just moved back a bit.

On a good note I proved to the Wife that I was semi competant when it comes to this toy and it ran before Xmas (her prediction was it wouldnt) so I can take the moral high ground for a while. Okay Chris got it going, but i was there looking stupid and asking dumb questions at the time, so it was all team work.

Heath

[suzookyman]

gee mate ya got it running! that would have made ya smile.You going
to have it all go to come up for Dans mini rally weekend in sept?....
Al

[Heath]

Not sure about the timing to actaully use it (hadnt thought that far) just getting it running but I guess now I do have to think along the using it lines dont I?

It'll get dirty though...!

[Heath]

Okay a few more pics.


engine in and running


Ali plate for gauges and switches (eventualy)


Hiding from the weather bomb (or what ever it was called) in the garage


Some supa chump goodies

Thats it for now

[Heath]

Got to find ali rims (sold the ones I bought)

[Heath]

Okay short blurb on cutting guards. Basically if you have to do it by hand the fronts are fine but the rears suck. Get a plasma cutter or something similar. I did my rears by hand (started with grinder but figured fuel tank right there and lots of sparks - not good). I borrowed a nibbler from work and the end broke off after 20 secs of use (bugger now I will have some explaining to do) so it was down to using hand shears and taking my time.

Next time I will get a plasma cutter and remove the tank (although by then I will have small fuel cell anyway so that's cool).

End result


Now room for the 31's (with some more work to be done on the firewall - couldnt bring myself to attempt it this time) and with the lift It will be sorted (well in that department anyway). Just have to source some ali rims and ... and ...

Heath

[Dr_PC]

with the lift It will be sorted
Heath

Heath
In an email I got a couple of months ago from the Chief Scruntineer I was told no lifts in a b e or f Classes
Dont want to see you up in C Class because of something like that

[skid]

with the lift It will be sorted
Heath

Heath
In an email I got a couple of months ago from the Chief Scruntineer I was told no lifts in a b e or f Classes
Dont want to see you up in C Class because of something like that

hes right Heath

last year they made a competitor take his truck away and remove the body lift before he could compete

[mroffroader]

with the lift It will be sorted
Heath

Heath
In an email I got a couple of months ago from the Chief Scruntineer I was told no lifts in a b e or f Classes
Dont want to see you up in C Class because of something like that

hes right Heath

last year they made a competitor take his truck away and remove the body lift before he could compete

yay im james and im a tard face whos truck was that

[skid]

yay im james and im a tard face whos truck was that

so which one of your mates is threadjacking Mr O


and who let them log in as you

[cool__bananas]

which compeditor was that?

[skid]

which compeditor was that?

cant remember name

[Heath]

Not doing a body lift just fitting fractionally taller springs.

Section R (springs) of rules for A/B class : production modified vehicles may fit shackle stops and overset springs may be used, provided they conform to the original design.

Email I got a while ago.

Hi Heath
sorry about the delay but needed answers from all scrutineers

Answers as follows

1/ guard cutting can only be done for tyre clearance

2/ brakes, you can fit discs to the rear and change master

3/ shocks and spring can be replaced with longer aftermarket
only coil over if that is what the vehicle had fitted originally

4/ fitting and accessories, wiper system can be completely removed

5/ battery and fuel tank can be moved and wiring not used

6/ bumpers can be removed,lightened or replaced with after market
as long as it is to WOF standards

hope this has answered your questions

cheers
Phil Collins (NCO)

So I should be sweet. I have got the rules here with me before I cut or change anything I check them first and if I am unsure I scream out for advice.

I do have a question though about sills. Can they be cut and replaced with a stronger section of steel. Like this below?

[skid]

I know in the past you may have had difficulty getting answers from the right people, but in my mind if you are planning on taking the letter of the law to the very extreme, then you need to be talking to the scrutineers only and maybe even keeping a record of any correspondence.

I have seen and heard scrutineers in the past say that something is OK, but when it comes to the day before a trial at scrutineering, they suddenly change their mind and develop amnesia.


I can see what you're doing and good on ya for pushing the envelope, but some of those in the past have tried and failed, so make sure you cover all bases.

Classes A,B,E,F are very competitive and cause alot of issues and bickering and protests, have even caused great friends to fall apart over their chosen sport.

Tread carefully dude and remember to have fun.

Too many competitors have forgotten to smile when they compete.

my 2c

SKID

[Heath]

I know in the past you may have had difficulty getting answers from the right people, but in my mind if you are planning on taking the letter of the law to the very extreme, then you need to be talking to the scrutineers only and maybe even keeping a record of any correspondence.

I have seen and heard scrutineers in the past say that something is OK, but when it comes to the day before a trial at scrutineering, they suddenly change their mind and develop amnesia.


I can see what you're doing and good on ya for pushing the envelope, but some of those in the past have tried and failed, so make sure you cover all bases.

Classes A,B,E,F are very competitive and cause alot of issues and bickering and protests, have even caused great friends to fall apart over their chosen sport.

Tread carefully dude and remember to have fun.

Too many competitors have forgotten to smile when they compete.

my 2c

SKID

Cheers Skiddy,

I intend to have a big shit eating grin every time I 'Play' in this toy. I hear what you are saying about keeping correspondence (learned that through work a while ago) and I dont intend to push the rules, rather just adhere to them and have fun. The problems arrise when they are a little 'open to interperetation' (cutting guards for instance, it says you can cut them but it doesnt say you can remove any material in the process. It also doesent say you cant remove anything in the process). A reread and rewrite would be nice that has strict guidelines. Surely these issues have been bashed around long enough that they know of them so why dont they make the problems go away. Any email and written advice I get from scrutineers goes into a file and will be going with me to the scrutineering (for proof if required - thats when I get there).

Suppose I should've put this in the thread for trials rules and not clogged up the POS thread, but there ya go.

At the end of the day the Nats dont pay prise money so it comes down to having fun competing and getting dirty doing it.

[skid]

At the end of the day the Nats dont pay prise money so it comes down to having fun competing and getting dirty doing it.

thats the spirit

[Heath]

Bit of an update.

welder I had hopped to get for a song from work because no-one used it since it was purchased has started to be used (me thinks they are trying to justify keeping it) so all metal work has failed to be done.

Have decided to just make do with the old rear brakes (might swap lwb rears on though) until I can geta "bolt on (or as damn near as) rear disk system". My 'A' frame (well the parts) the old man was making got biffed by some guys at his work (cleaning up for christmas) while he was on sick leave so I have to find another one before I can move the POS to get an exhaust made.

I am looking for a reasonable priced 20 litre fuel cell to run in the back. This will mean the tank can be removed giving a little more space under the rear and room for some brackets for tow hooks.

I still have a few ideas for a front bar (like the stingers for rockclimbing but not that pronounced) and a couple of tow points forward. Will use two pieces of plate with a hole/slot cut to go over the front crossmember (which will be reinforced with a metal bar), the two plates will be put on so the slots are not overlaping and then welded into place. A shackle and strop then can be fitted as required. This shouldnt impact on the approach angle at all. I also intend to cap the ends of the chassis to make then a little stronger (stop the two pieces from seperating) and give a strong mount for the bars. Havent yet decided on whether to fit side bars to the front guards and whether I should remove/replace the sill bars (was thinking of removing the sills and replacing with heavy steel and tube off that - need to check legality).

Still have to fit the battery in its new position (on the rear tray) was going to be behind the passenger seat but the roll cage wont allow it to fit (bugger) so it will go up and on to the rear.

Have sorted my pile of bits into some semblance of order and will have to swap the r and P from a damaged 5.12 front diff to a 4.8 good one (to match my spare rear diff).

At some stage I will sort out the short shaft to both sides mod so I can biff the long shafts I have (low priority).

Still looking for reasonable priced manual hubs and will probably just go for the 'bolt and washer in the end of the shaft' mod so they fit.

Still to sort electrics (relocate the ecu, remove surplus fuses etc, fit guages), tidy up engine bay etc.

Got to sort a better cover also until I waterproof the dash as my tarp got shredded in the last blow. Maybe I should just get that done, nah 3 dollar tarp from ware house will do for now.

So as you can see not much happened but a few decisions made so now I can sort of move forwards and not waste too much time / money / effort chasing ideas that arent needed.

Man does the to do list get big. even when you remove stuff it still seems huge.

[LOLYF]

Heath, I have an A frame from a suzuki out the back of my garage if it's any good to you it's yours.

Mark.

[UBZ]

Will 413/410 Hubs Fit onto the Vitra?

A mate of mine has several complete diffs including hubs under his house. may be able to be persuaded to part with a set for a reasonable price as they are surpluses.

C.

[spanky]

413 hubs will fit , that is what i put on mine,
vaughan

[DieselBoy]

I have a 20L out board motor fuel cell if ya wat it. Its steel.

On that note, you can buy the new plastic outboard fuel cells for less than F.A

[Heath]

Heath, I have an A frame from a suzuki out the back of my garage if it's any good to you it's yours.

Mark.

I'll take it if you dont want it, PM me what you want for it.

Will 413/410 Hubs Fit onto the Vitra?

A mate of mine has several complete diffs including hubs under his house. may be able to be persuaded to part with a set for a reasonable price as they are surpluses.

C.

Depending on price, yeah why not. PM me if he has a couple he wants to get rid of with the price.

I have a 20L out board motor fuel cell if ya wat it. Its steel.

On that note, you can buy the new plastic outboard fuel cells for less than F.A

Had thought about the boat cells also, easier to get filled also.

Cheers, Heath

[Heath]

Okay made a little progress today.

Decided to bleed the brakes and put new fluid in (replaced the master cylinder a while back). Spent two hours trying to do it on my own, tried with a suction pump to drag fluid through the caliper but no joy. Waste of two hours basically as I cant get the front right (drivers side) to come up at all and the pedal just goes almost to the floor. Maybe the MC is buggered (just my luck).

Decided to swap to an easier job - removing the front disk brake covers - no worries there. Had to remove the hub etc and with my new bearing retainer tool that bit was soooo easy it is stupid. Problem was the 4 little screws that hold the retainer plate thingee in place were tighter than a nuns .... . I managed to wreck one with the impact driver lucky I had some spares. Once the screws were out it was a two minute job to remove the hub, unbolt the plate, put the hub back (with some new grease) and bolt everything back together. Will do the pass side tomorrow. Noticed the front hubs are not freewheeling like they should (had a sneaking suspiscion that was the case) and I couldnt get them to free up while they were off the front so they will have to go sooner than later.

So far my list consists of:
1. Sorting the brakes
2. fitting battery behind seats
3. A frame
4. exhaust (rear end)
5. Tow points front /rear
6. Hubs
7. gauges, switches, relocate ecu and wire up the eleckky fan
8. Fuel tank and pump
9. barwork up front/sides
10. radiator blind/protector
11. fluid changes
12. cover for dash / waterproof dash
13. Front hub seals/bearings

Not much but there is bound to be more I have forgotten.

Has anyone got a broken rear suzuki vitara/scud axle? I am after one to make into a slide hammer, longer the better I guess.

Cheers

[Rotazuk]

I have a couple on the scrap pile going to the melters at some stage . No idea what your plan is thou

Chris

[Heath]

I figured it will bolt straight to the shaft fitted in the axle (remove the studs in the hammer) use a sliding weight and weld a steel block/cap for the weight to hit. Hey presto - Slide hammer for a vitara, made with vitara parts.