Offroad-Express

New wheel trims I fitted at Queens Birthday.



Video of bog at Seddonville



Cheers Bulletproof

[quote="Bulletproof
Richard[/quote]

Nice thread Richard

I too carry a short crowbar although for me it slides inside the cab from back door to centre console. Not so great when I tip the truck over again
I see in you top photo you have some mounts for your bar. How do you locate it to stop it falling out? Am keen to something similar.


The 2nd photo shows a Dee spring clip on the far side. What does this hold?


Listening to your Hilux in the videos, it certanly sounds different. I assume this noise is with the Supercharger working or is that just due to the type of exhaust or muffler that you are using and itherefore it makes this noise with or without the charger?

Cheers
John

IcedJohnno wrote:[quote="Bulletproof

I see in you top photo you have some mounts for your bar. How do you locate it to stop it falling out? Am keen to something similar.

The 2nd photo shows a Dee spring clip on the far side. What does this hold?

Listening to your Hilux in the videos, it certanly sounds different. I assume this noise is with the Supercharger working or is that just due to the type of exhaust or muffler that you are using and itherefore it makes this noise with or without the charger?

Cheers
John

The Answer to your question on what stops the crowbar falling out is the "DEE SPRING CLIP" on the other end bracket that you saw in the photo.

Regarding the sound. In the video of the bog I forgot to turn the supercharger on until the the 2nd attempt and you will notice I lacked power to take off. I then turned it on and you will notice the sound is the same, only a bit more powerful.

The sound comes from the extractors. Each PIpe is 500mm long and 38mm dia going to the collector and then runs into a 2.5 inch pipe to the muffler .The equal length pipes causes the sound.

Cheers Richard

Bulletproof wrote:New wheel trims I fitted at Queens Birthday.




Cheers Bulletproof

Hard to tell cause of the new age state of the art wheel trims,but that looks like some BOGGERS under there some were.

How did the WP trip go?Did you catch up with JR?

Shane

my money will be on either simex or silverstones

Chopper01 wrote:my money will be on either simex or silverstones

They are definitely simex's in the vid,I guess if the pic was taken the same weekend then your probley rite.

Shane wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:New wheel trims I fitted at Queens Birthday.




Cheers Bulletproof

Hard to tell cause of the new age state of the art wheel trims,but that looks like some BOGGERS under there some were.

How did the WP trip go?Did you catch up with JR?

Shane

The weekend went really good . Went into little Totara and did some new tracks at Seddonville on private land so cant give anything away. JR didn't make it . Drowned his sons truck in the Rough river behind Ikamatua on the Saturday so had to go back to Christchurch . Water flowed in the drivers window so was well under, but once it sank drove out so Glen didn't have to swim.
About the Tyres . Here is a picture taken on the Sunday on the same trip as previous photo.



35x11.5 extreme Treekers on 7 inch rims.

Richard

This why you dont try driving the very steep bank on the" Bulletproof Chasm " track

Video clip. aspect wrong.



Richard

Man that clip finishes about 5 seconds to soon Looks like things were about to get real interesting

H2OLOVA wrote:Man that clip finishes about 5 seconds to soon Looks like things were about to get real interesting

Its very hard to get good camera crew nowdays. My wife Janet was filming about 6 metres in front of the hilux and for some reason went running so thats where the clip finished.

The Hilux actually hit a tree and then bounced back on its wheels and we drove off.

Richard

Bulletproof wrote:Its very hard to get good camera crew nowdays. My wife Janet was filming about 6 metres in front of the hilux and for some reason went running so thats where the clip finished.

The Hilux actually hit a tree and then bounced back on its wheels and we drove off.

Richard

It certainly looked like there was gonna be some carnage , I'd better start putting some more bars on the truck before Als trip. Would hate to dent the truck

interesting pic....

rangimotors wrote:
interesting pic....

This an interesting pic. This is fine art that in a few years will be worth a fortune.

I often get asked why dont you cut the rear end off the hilux and I drew these rough drawings to show why not.

To put it bluntly , cutting the back end off a hilux stuffs it for 4 wheel driving. We used to have cut down ones turn up for competition and they were absolutely useless and I could drive past every time.

I drew these rough sketches to show why. A Hilux has been designed to carry a ton, so to make this possible toyota moved the engine forward to hold the front end down. Thats what the 1st picture shows.

The 2nd picture shows landcruisers, jeeps and old landrovers etc. The engine is behind the front axle spreading the weight to the rear axle and that is why they will climb better than a hilux.

To make a hilux perform you therefore need to put weight right in the rear to give traction to the rear wheels and to make the suspension work properly. Its like a see-saw , weight in the rear lifts the front and thats what the 3rd picture shows.

Cutting the rear end off means you are adding weight to the front axle making them useless.

The only advangage of cutting the rear off is to improve the departure angle, but this can be improved with a lift in the rear end. I have over 45 degrees which is never a problem.

I hope this explains the sketches

Richard

Is that Helen Clarks signature I can just make out on there??

I agree with not cutting down the length, but there are other ways around setting the truck up for climbing without getting into weight distribution. But it does require throwing out all the std suspension (in a ' lux any ways). If you have a dedicated coil set up up (especially a 4 link) you can design the links to adjust the anti squat figures, and help the rig bite in (but not too much) and climb. A classic example of anti squat designs making a huge difference is on any factory swb GQ patrol. With large tyres on they have been known to bounce and lurch when climbing. I have seen more than one of these rigs end over backwards (now that must freak you out big time ).

The pic does finish a bit early Richard (bugga!). From what we can see though, it shows the difference in driving styles when compared between adventure trucking and trialing. When breaking in new trails, we tend to go as slowly as possible and try to keep total control (even when going over, as least it is slow,as a rule). Trials guys generally have the balls to power up when they feel the back coming over the front, and therefore pulling the back down. I saw a classic example of this on our xmas rock rash trip when Turoa did exactly that on a rock crawl, he would have definatly gone over has he not. (don't think I would have had the balls to do what he did though ). There is vid somewhere, but buggered if I can find it.

rokhound wrote:I agree with not cutting down the length, but there are other ways around setting the truck up for climbing without getting into weight distribution. But it does require throwing out all the std suspension (in a ' lux any ways). If you have a dedicated coil set up up (especially a 4 link) you can design the links to adjust the anti squat figures, and help the rig bite in (but not too much) and climb. A classic example of anti squat designs making a huge difference is on any factory swb GQ patrol. With large tyres on they have been known to bounce and lurch when climbing. I have seen more than one of these rigs end over backwards (now that must freak you out big time ).

The pic does finish a bit early Richard (bugga!). From what we can see though, it shows the difference in driving styles when compared between adventure trucking and trialing. When breaking in new trails, we tend to go as slowly as possible and try to keep total control (even when going over, as least it is slow,as a rule). Trials guys generally have the balls to power up when they feel the back coming over the front, and therefore pulling the back down. I saw a classic example of this on our xmas rock rash trip when Turoa did exactly that on a rock crawl, he would have definatly gone over has he not. (don't think I would have had the balls to do what he did though ). There is vid somewhere, but buggered if I can find it.

I think your rear end set up sounds very good.

I still think the weight distibution is very important and the front weight needs to lightened . Especially is this true to get through bog holes as well as climbing.

I disagree with your comment about trial drivers, in my opinion they dont have balls to do real 4 wheel driving. In trials the banks are small ,The water is shallow with no current and every time I challenge them to big stuff they chicken out.
But I haven't met them all and I might be biased.

Regarding the bank, normally I do accelerate and drive out but with this bank it is uneven with about 80 degree angle on the right side at the bottom and 60 on the other and that is why it spun and crashed 90 degres to the bank.

Richard

Bulletproof wrote:
I disagree with your comment about trial drivers, in my opinion they dont have balls to do real 4 wheel driving. In trials the banks are small ,The water is shallow with no current and every time I challenge them to big stuff they chicken out.
But I haven't met them all and I might be biased.

Umm, ok..... Have you seen a proper trials hazard? I dont think you will have met many trials guys as I think only one guy from the SI comes up north to do the nationals.

[quote="rokhound"] A classic example of anti squat designs making a huge difference is on any factory swb GQ patrol. With large tyres on they have been known to bounce and lurch when climbing. I have seen more than one of these rigs end over backwards (now that must freak you out big time ).
quote]

The GQ's esp swb get the big bounce on when climbing(steep stuff)at speed over rough terrain,can dial it out to some extent with good shocks,
Must be quite comman,in Oz you can buy a long arm kit(lower only)that uses a factory mount that is welded on the chassis further foward and uses a 30cm longer lower arm,apparently it makes a huge differance.

Sorry to Hijack

as you were...

weight distribution is very important but i have to disagree with the comments about weight over the back axle for climbing as this has the oppisite affect in my lux.
I have a 65 series single cab that has a factory short wheel base chassis, it has a 1500mm deck on the back that at a guess would weigh 150kg, add recovery gear and spare means matbe 250kg over the rear axle.
in the front I have a 3lt 6 cyl supra motor. With the front axle shifted forward by 65mm my rig climbs effortlessly where heavier and longer hiluxes struggle,
as for the trails debate my hangin bits arnt up to trailing so Ill try winching

haynzy wrote:weight distribution is very important but i have to disagree with the comments about weight over the back axle for climbing as this has the oppisite affect in my lux.
I have a 65 series single cab that has a factory short wheel base chassis, it has a 1500mm deck on the back that at a guess would weigh 150kg, add recovery gear and spare means matbe 250kg over the rear axle.
in the front I have a 3lt 6 cyl supra motor. With the front axle shifted forward by 65mm my rig climbs effortlessly where heavier and longer hiluxes struggle,
as for the trails debate my hangin bits arnt up to trailing so Ill try winching

What you are saying is exactly the point Im trying to make . Moving the axle by 65 mm forward is altering the weight distribution and putting it over the rear axle.
I have moved mine about 30mm forward.

Richard

Bulletproof wrote:What you are saying is exactly the point Im trying to make . Moving the axle by 65 mm forward is altering the weight distribution and putting it over the rear axle.
I have moved mine about 30mm forward.

Richard

Now I'm confused. I thought by lengthening the wheelbase, you would would have less weight over the back while climbing

DaveM wrote:

Bulletproof wrote:

Richard

Now I'm confused. I thought by lengthening the wheelbase, you would would have less weight over the back while climbing

There is nothing to be confused about because a hilux motor is central over the front axle and if you move the axle forward it would fall backwards so more weight is going to the rear.

About wheelbase I was brought up to believe you should have a short wheelbase for real four-wheel driving.

This also is a load of rubbish. For trailing you need a short wheelbase to get between the pegs but for ordinary 4 wheeling a long wheelbase out performs a short nearly every time.

Richard

I personally would say that the ultimate wheel base for all "real world" ( for want of a better term) off road action would have to be around the 100"-110" mark. And as much as it pains me to say so, that puts Range Rovers, and 110 defenders right on the money. I have found that the wheel base on the Mutt is spot on for what I do, but I couldn't tell you what it is as I haven't measured it (and it is being pulled to bits very soon so I can build a new one )
Being a double cab, yours would have been the LWB "lux to start with Richard, wouldn't it? Do you happen to know what your wheelbase is by any chance?

to compare most winch challeng trucks seem to go with a medium hweel base as a happy medium of sorts, with less weight on the back the weight distribution to the wheels on a steep incline means an even distribution of traction,
I found with my last 4x4 (bj73cruiser) the heavy back end it had punished the truck by reducing traction to the front and comprimising steering ability

my wheel base I beleive is the same as yours rokhound and measures 500mm shorter than a standard hilux ute chassis the xtracab versions are longer again

PS I wasn't bagging the driving technique, just pointing out the differences in styles. As the vid stopped just when everything was getting interesting, it was hard to see the ground contour and surrounding banks etc.
It is interesting to watch what some people do when faced with potentially dangerous circumstances. I have seen more than one case for instance where a driver would rather float?bounce side on to swift current and very nearly tip over, than either turn into the current, or open the doors to let the truck sink and gain some better traction to drive out.

rokhound wrote:I personally would say that the ultimate wheel base for all "real world" ( for want of a better term) off road action would have to be around the 100"-110" mark. And as much as it pains me to say so, that puts Range Rovers, and 110 defenders right on the money. I have found that the wheel base on the Mutt is spot on for what I do, but I couldn't tell you what it is as I haven't measured it (and it is being pulled to bits very soon so I can build a new one )
Being a double cab, yours would have been the LWB "lux to start with Richard, wouldn't it? Do you happen to know what your wheelbase is by any chance?

I would agree with what you say about 110. I dont know mine but it is slightly too long but still miles better than a short.

Richard

rokhound wrote:I personally would say that the ultimate wheel base for all "real world" ( for want of a better term) off road action would have to be around the 100"-110" mark. And as much as it pains me to say so, that puts Range Rovers, and 110 defenders right on the money.

And they knew that 40 years ago.
Your average landrover/rangerover has a lot of it's weight over the rear, with a good solid diesel in the front they end up closer to 50/50.

KiwiBacon wrote:

rokhound wrote:I personally would say that the ultimate wheel base for all "real world" ( for want of a better term) off road action would have to be around the 100"-110" mark. And as much as it pains me to say so, that puts Range Rovers, and 110 defenders right on the money.

And they knew that 40 years ago.
Your average landrover/rangerover has a lot of it's weight over the rear, with a good solid diesel in the front they end up closer to 50/50.

I agree completely if only they had the quality.

You might be surprised to know I own 2 landrovers. Both shorts and I dont take them off road.
I have one of the oldest 2s in the world. Built on the 3rd mar 1958, 6 weeks before the release of the 2. Mine is number 16 and still has the original series 1 motor. Quite collectable

Hi bltprf.. Double cab hilux's are 2850 plus your 30mm front diff move. Midi L/C's are 2600. My Hi lux is 2600.Yes a lot of winich challange guys are going to eather LWB or MID. You can't have the perfect wheelbase all the time, just like tyres. Always a compromise. Just change your driving style to suit. Have a good weekend guys, I'm off to play in the MUD .
Wayne.