Offroad-Express

De-Ranged wrote:Hey Tony do you know how this is going to affect scratch built cert
The reason I'm asking is scratch built vehicles are classed as new vehicles.... how are they going to set a bench height as to how much lift
The other reason I ask is LVVTA have just changed the rules so steering mods now are classed as scratch built.... that means any SAS'd trucks, X over steering conversions, steering box or component upgrades will be in the same boat

Cheers Reece

Scratch built vehicles are one area that is providing some challenges and no decisions have been made. We do know that there has only ever been two 4wd scratch built vehicles go through the cert system so they are likely to be treated on a case by case basis. Now would be a good time to make suggestions on how that could be handled. As for the second part of your question, I have met with LVVTA twice over this issue and had some very detailed discussions but it was never mentioned that steering mods will make it a scratch built vehicle. I will add this to my list for the next meeting and get back to you ASAP.

J_Dub wrote:i think the only people to blame is the boy racers trading in their lowered turbos for raised trucks, being dicks on the roads and thrashing their trucks offroad and cutting up reserves and throwing their woodstock cans out in the bush..

as for those of us that do it right and drive safe trucks will generally be fine whatever the laws may be...

So maybe the law enforcers should police the current laws better, Everyone wins, Even them with the income from fines.

Also $400 to get a body lift certed is crazy, Why cant they just organize wof people to make sure a vehicle is safe with bodylift? If I get a bodylift, i WILL NOT be paying $400 for someone to take 2minutes to look at it.

All the new laws they try to bring in are stupid, They dont stop the people braking the current ones. Just like them trying to make under 20 alcohol 0. The current 150 is low enough, The new law aint gonna stop people that get slaughtered and then attempt to drive.

^^^^^^^^^^^
and there's the reason

Seems bizaree that NZ4WD assn is trying to keep control of this & have it so only its member will get the benefits of the "Card" & leave those in Combined Clubs out in the cold.
But when combined clubs have done many hunderds of hours working on giving all access to the Waipara River. NZ4WD assn moaned as "there" members were being excluded.
Its works both ways ...give everyone a fair go.
A non cert threshold for body & suspension lifts needs to be set formally in both the VIRM & the LVVTA manual.Then a line will be drawn in the sand so people will OFFICIALLY know where they stand.Then it will be simple to decide if you need a cert plate or not.
There is NO need for special "cards" for anyone ..either your vehicle is safe & legal or its not.

The views expressed are mine & not necassarily those of the club im a member of

yeti wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^
and there's the reason

Care to explain

The whole thing is a fucken joke, as it seems is the NZFWDA, As someone that is new to 4x4ing, I can tell you of this is the future of 4x4ing I wont bother i'll sell my truck to some silly lady to pick the shopping up in and do something else.

tallsam66 wrote:Its works both ways ...give everyone a fair go.
A non cert threshold for body & suspension lifts needs to be set formally in both the VIRM & the LVVTA manual.Then a line will be drawn in the sand so people will OFFICIALLY know where they stand.Then it will be simple to decide if you need a cert plate or not.
There is NO need for special "cards" for anyone ..either your vehicle is safe & legal or its not.

The views expressed are mine & not necassarily those of the club im a member of

I agree 100% !!

One thing we don't know is why this conversation started in the first place, was it because LTSA wanted to ban lifted vehicles? or require all vehicles to have cert? This "Card System" maybe our last chance to keep our vehicles road legal.

Does the NZFWDA want to comment on this? What spawned these discussions? How did it lead to this Card System?

wjw wrote:One thing we don't know is why this conversation started in the first place, was it because LTSA wanted to ban lifted vehicles? or require all vehicles to have cert? This "Card System" maybe our last chance to keep our vehicles road legal.

Does the NZFWDA want to comment on this? What spawned these discussions? How did it lead to this Card System?

it has been in the wind for some years and there has been some work being done for several years but little progress was made. It has become more urgent recently with a couple of fatal accidents and it became clear that if we didn't get our self sorted out quickly the limits would be introduced without our input that would be the end of it. The authority card system is very much a privilege that we will need to protect, I would be confident in saying that it is the last chance to keep vehicles with large lifts road legal.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

Mudde1 wrote:

wjw wrote:One thing we don't know is why this conversation started in the first place, was it because LTSA wanted to ban lifted vehicles? or require all vehicles to have cert? This "Card System" maybe our last chance to keep our vehicles road legal.

Does the NZFWDA want to comment on this? What spawned these discussions? How did it lead to this Card System?

it has been in the wind for some years and there has been some work being done for several years but little progress was made. It has become more urgent recently with a couple of fatal accidents and it became clear that if we didn't get our self sorted out quickly the limits would be introduced without our input that would be the end of it. The authority card system is very much a privilege that we will need to protect, I would be confident in saying that it is the last chance to keep vehicles with large lifts road legal.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

So we will basically be following in the foot steps of the NZ Hot Rod Association?

What criteria needs to be met to obtain one of these "cards"? Obviously not everyone will have an affiliated club in their area, so will be paying club fees to obtain a "card", with no other benefits from the club.
Will you need to join the clubs on trips to prove you use your vehicle off road, and if so, how many?


Cheers,
Dave

So we will basically be following in the foot steps of the NZ Hot Rod Association?[/quote]
It is true that we have looked closely at the system NZHRA already have in place to see what we can learn from them,
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

DaveM wrote:What criteria needs to be met to obtain one of these "cards"? Obviously not everyone will have an affiliated club in their area, so will be paying club fees to obtain a "card", with no other benefits from the club.
Will you need to join the clubs on trips to prove you use your vehicle off road, and if so, how many?


Cheers,
Dave

details are still being worked on, but it will be similer to NZHRA. They have an application that is signed by the Zone president to confirm that the person has been a member for at least 1 year and is a suitable person to have a fender exemption. they also have a log book in which they record NZHRA events which they attend and is signed by the person in charge of entries. that log book is sent in with the application or renewal application. they have to attend 2 NZHRA events per year to keep current.

Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

so currently im not a member of a club which would mean id have to park up my truck for a year before someone says im capable of driving?

THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

Hi Tony if this type of vehicle got a full low vehicle cert then he sould not have to join a club would he??

i understand the nzfwda stand as in keeping the costs down for those that are members
but for joe on the street why could they not get a full cert and be done with it

just my thoughts Rohan

Isn't the hotrod fender exemption allowed partly due to the fact that the vehicles aren't normally used 'everyday' ? Ie show cars and sunday drives? For the most part.

Where as a lot of 4wds are used as daily drivers even though a lot of them are modified.

I don't agree that this card is a privilege, it is merely another form of control over and above what is necessary. If a vehicle is modified and has passed and holds a current Certification, that should be all that is required if it is over the threshold for exemption, ie 50mm lift etc.

mudlva wrote:

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

Hi Tony if this type of vehicle got a full low vehicle cert then he sould not have to join a club would he??

i understand the nzfwda stand as in keeping the costs down for those that are members
but for joe on the street why could they not get a full cert and be done with it

just my thoughts Rohan

Truck is going for cert next week or week after.
Will this be effecting me?

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

you can still have your truck and us it as you wish as long as you keep within the standards set by LTSA. If you want the benefits that come with being part of an organization, then you have to be a member of the organization and follow its rules.

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:

mudlva wrote:

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

Hi Tony if this type of vehicle got a full low vehicle cert then he sould not have to join a club would he??

i understand the nzfwda stand as in keeping the costs down for those that are members
but for joe on the street why could they not get a full cert and be done with it

just my thoughts Rohan

Truck is going for cert next week or week after.
Will this be effecting me?

yes see my understanding of the current system is that when a vehicle is put thru a low volumn cert and it all complies then thats it the vehicle complies, end of story.

this new system i get the impression is for those that dont want to pay for a full cert when all they have done is thrown in a 4inch lift so they can fit bigger tyres

part of the problem when newbys install new springs and shocks is the travel of the shocks in relation to the axles bump/over load stops, if the shocks are to long then the shock mounts take the vehicles weight not the stops, the end result is the shock mounts getting ripped out or torn. another issue is whether the replacement bolts etc are the correct grade majority of wof shops will not be checking for this type of thing, as they are going over everything esle as well,

just another 2cents worth to add to the thinking

rohan

Mudde1 wrote:

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

you can still have your truck and us it as you wish as long as you keep within the standards set by LTSA. If you want the benefits that come with being part of an organization, then you have to be a member of the organization and follow its rules.

I would be to join the combined club as they fit all the battles in my back yard... Can they issue the special card?

I have been for one cert check, he never checked if the bolts are high tensile or grade 8 bolts?

And its a body lift safer than suspension anyway cause its keeping the centre of gravity low.......

And there is a lot of what I call bogans who get a truck do half ass job of shit and then cause issues of ripping up bogs beside tracks and cause trouble and now we are all getting in shit for it, not just in cert issues but also land issues

I don't get the body lift rule, surely a 50mm body lift with the correct materials and bolts (easily seen by a WOF check) is safer than a 50mm spring lifted truck.A BL has a Lower Centre of gravity than a sus lift, and requires no mods to any suspension components from factory. How does a50mm BL need a cert and a 50 susp lift doesn't.
Surely both shouldn't?

ToYoda wrote:I don't get the body lift rule, surely a 50mm body lift with the correct materials and bolts (easily seen by a WOF check) is safer than a 50mm spring lifted truck.A BL has a Lower Centre of gravity than a sus lift, and requires no mods to any suspension components from factory. How does a50mm BL need a cert and a 50 susp lift doesn't.
Surely both shouldn't?

Im with this guy on this one!

mudlva wrote:this new system i get the impression is for those that dont want to pay for a full cert when all they have done is thrown in a 4inch lift so they can fit bigger tyres

thats the merky impression I'm getting but its still not that clear so far

ToYoda wrote:I don't get the body lift rule, surely a 50mm body lift with the correct materials and bolts (easily seen by a WOF check) is safer than a 50mm spring lifted truck.A BL has a Lower Centre of gravity than a sus lift, and requires no mods to any suspension components from factory. How does a50mm BL need a cert and a 50 susp lift doesn't.
Surely both shouldn't?

Currently there is NO WRITTEN rules on this...hopefully soon there will be so that we know where we stand.
People tell you your allowed to do 50mm body lift etc....but there is nothing in any of the official regulations about this ...there isnt even a mention of body lifts at all.
If you dont believe me go read both the VIRM & LVVT manual yourself.....we do need to get this sorted out.

ToYoda wrote: How does a50mm BL need a cert and a 50 susp lift doesn't.
Surely both shouldn't?

someone did explain it to me a long time ago. something about the longer bolts have more strain on them and you can break the bolts off. end up with the body coming off the chassis.


the regs certainly need a tidy up. last time i check out the WOF manual it was so vague that you could read anything you like into it.
but its all pointless if no one actually checks whats been done to a vehicle in the first place.

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:

Mudde1 wrote:

KIWI_TERRANO wrote:THIS IS ####### BULLSH*T!!

I am a not a member of a club but have a sas truck,
I have designed my truck so my partner and I can explore this wonderfull country and me to get into bette hunting spots.

And now your telling me I have to join a club, try find time around my busy farming schudue to go on some trips so they can say "yup heres your card"

you can still have your truck and us it as you wish as long as you keep within the standards set by LTSA. If you want the benefits that come with being part of an organization, then you have to be a member of the organization and follow its rules.

I would be to join the combined club as they fit all the battles in my back yard... Can they issue the special card?

NZFWDA have for some years been part of LVVTA and put the effort (and finance) into setting LVVTA up. Combined clubs are not part of LVVTA so will not be able to reap the benefits that come from being members. The same applies to ORNZ.
We are happy to talk to Combined about that and the talking has already started.

Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

Smurf wrote:Isn't the hotrod fender exemption allowed partly due to the fact that the vehicles aren't normally used 'everyday' ? Ie show cars and sunday drives? For the most part.

Where as a lot of 4wds are used as daily drivers even though a lot of them are modified.
.

i think that it is better that we don't say to much about that.
remember we are only talking about the most extreme of lifts. Small suspension lifts will only require a WOF. "reasonable" suspension lifts and small body lifts will only require a cert. nothing else. extreme lifts will require a cert and an authority card.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

ToYoda wrote:I don't get the body lift rule, surely a 50mm body lift with the correct materials and bolts (easily seen by a WOF check) is safer than a 50mm spring lifted truck.A BL has a Lower Centre of gravity than a sus lift, and requires no mods to any suspension components from factory. How does a50mm BL need a cert and a 50 susp lift doesn't.
Surely both shouldn't?

A 50mm susp lift is probably just a change in springs, which is very straight forward. A 50mm body lift will effect steering linkages, brake hoses wiring etc. I did try to argue your point, but the technical boffins were very convincing and were not going to change their views.