WOF Change?

[MikeL200]

Then why do we need to be a NZFWDA member then?

Because the card doesn't come with your weetbix

Mudde1 wrote:
The club caption will only be signing the Authority card to say that you have been part of NZFWDA for 1 year or more, and that you are a fit and proper person to hold an authority card.nothing more. The certifyer is only signing to say the vehicle meet the requirements when they examined it. it is up to the owner to keep it safe and legal.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA


This is the part that needs clarifying, and why I have a bee under my bonnet.
According to the NZ4WDA, it is just a judgement on the person that joins the club, nothing to do with the vehicle or whether the mods suit the needs of the vehicle
(Taken from last years argument on the subject)

[kbushnz]

I am a member of the Assoc and as it stands I plan to cert my truck and forget the Auth card....
Cert truck one off fee.....Anyone can buy it....
Auth card... renewal fee each year and need to either cert it or de mod it to sell it to anyone....

Dont forget the Govt could just say NO lifts at all......
We have been using a rule to our advantage now its being tightened up...
So you have 3 options...
Dont lift yah truck...
Lift it and get it certed.
Join the Assoc and get Auth card... then lift it....

Simple really....

[Bulletproof]

Well I disagree completely with the "Authority card"

People in the NZFWDA or Club captains would not have a clue whether a Truck is safe or not. Most would never have driven a lifted truck to know how they handle on the road or 4 wheeling

Each truck has to be tested on an individual basis because they all handle differently and each one needs a proper road and brake test at 100kph as is currently done by the Certifier

Even the same type and model of truck can handle completely different from another by just altering the Caster by 2 degrees.

A lot of the Trucks I know that are lifted have quite bad Wheel shake but a WOF does not pick that up

Cheers Richard

[DieselBoy]

Having been involved in circut racing and rallying to some degree, I personally under stand how an authority card works.

In order for a rally car to be driven on the road legally, it needs an authority card and a log book. In order to get the authority card and log book, the owner needs a motorsport NZ competition licence. In order to get the competition licence, the owner must be a active member of a car club.

A step further for circuit racing, a test on the track has to be done for the licence is issued.

No where does having to be a member of a car club for 1year prior to getting the above documents come into it

That's the part I don't like most of all, among the rest.

Stay low, stay off the radar

[hosehustler]

The weather is no good for fishing today. There will be no bites so I will sit in my chair and SAY NOTHING

I was trying pretty hard too
I'll try harder next time

Well I disagree completely with the "Authority card"

People in the NZFWDA or Club captains would not have a clue whether a Truck is safe or not. Most would never have driven a lifted truck to know how they handle on the road or 4 wheeling

Each truck has to be tested on an individual basis because they all handle differently and each one needs a proper road and brake test at 100kph as is currently done by the Certifier

Even the same type and model of truck can handle completely different from another by just altering the Caster by 2 degrees.

A lot of the Trucks I know that are lifted have quite bad Wheel shake but a WOF does not pick that up

Cheers Richard

I completely agree with the above statement from Richard, I've seen many certified trucks that should never have been road legal, as as for the "authority card" system... is just complete bollocks

[Pedro]

The weather is no good for fishing today. There will be no bites so I will sit in my chair and SAY NOTHING

I was trying pretty hard too
I'll try harder next time

Well I disagree completely with the "Authority card"

People in the NZFWDA or Club captains would not have a clue whether a Truck is safe or not. Most would never have driven a lifted truck to know how they handle on the road or 4 wheeling

Each truck has to be tested on an individual basis because they all handle differently and each one needs a proper road and brake test at 100kph as is currently done by the Certifier

Even the same type and model of truck can handle completely different from another by just altering the Caster by 2 degrees.

A lot of the Trucks I know that are lifted have quite bad Wheel shake but a WOF does not pick that up

Cheers Richard

I completely agree with the above statement from Richard, I've seen many certified trucks that should never have been road legal, as as for the "authority card" system... is just complete bollocks

while the idea of the authority card is a pain, and i do not agree with it, the options are (from what i can gather)
NZFWDA do nothing, and law is changed and lifts become illegal totally and we all stuffed.

NZFWDA get involved, sort out a deal with authorities and get a card system

Another authority takes up the cause (MANZ or Hot rodders) where the fees are higher and fish hooks are bigger, Manz can/do put levies on anything they feel like, and you WILL get bugger all out of manz in return.
From what i know (which can be limited) hot rodders also have a 1 yr standdown period for certification.

the bitching should be aimed at the govt for changing the rules, not for a organsation for trying to sort out a deal,

Has anyone else in the 4wd scene made a move to work with govt on this matter?
If other 4wd groups made move, and secured a deal then there would be another group bitching about it !!!

Pedro

[UBZ]

While I understand the political motivations behind the authority card system .
The LTSA and LVVTA get all heavily modified 4wds under one authority system and the NZ4WD Ass gains significant political lobbying power by being the controlling authority.

This is how i understand it all

the "Owner" of the "4wd" has to be a "Member" of a "Club"
the "Owner" has to be a "Club" member for more than a year.
The "4wd" must have a current "Cert" issued by the LVVTA
The "Club" then nominates a "Person" inside the "Club" to be responsible for the issuing of an "Authority Card" for the "4wd"
The "4wd" can then get a "WOF"
The "Authority Card is for the "4wd" and as long as it is in the "4wd" any "Other Person" can legally drive the "4wd"

So as long as you jump through all the hoops , you can modify your 4wd how ever you like and anyone can drive it on the road .....

the responsibility for the 4wd on the road still resides with the Driver at the end of the day.

What I fail to see is how this has anything to do with road safety at all.

[Sadam_Husain]

while the idea of the authority card is a pain, and i do not agree with it, the options are (from what i can gather)
NZFWDA do nothing, and law is changed and lifts become illegal totally and we all stuffed.

NZFWDA get involved, sort out a deal with authorities and get a card system

Another authority takes up the cause (MANZ or Hot rodders) where the fees are higher and fish hooks are bigger, Manz can/do put levies on anything they feel like, and you WILL get bugger all out of manz in return.
From what i know (which can be limited) hot rodders also have a 1 yr standdown period for certification.

the bitching should be aimed at the govt for changing the rules, not for a organsation for trying to sort out a deal,

Has anyone else in the 4wd scene made a move to work with govt on this matter?
If other 4wd groups made move, and secured a deal then there would be another group bitching about it !!!

Pedro

thats pretty much the way I'm seeing it ^^^

I think on the NZFWDA side of things their communication hasnt been the best but having said that Tonys making a pretty good effort to answer questions on here and copping a lot of flack for it and I hardly ever read half the shit they send me anyway so I've only got myself to blame for not knowing whats going on half the time

[Bulletproof]

Can anyone give me a government link to the proposed changes ?

Cheers Richard

[Mudde1]

while the idea of the authority card is a pain, and i do not agree with it, the options are (from what i can gather)
NZFWDA do nothing, and law is changed and lifts become illegal totally and we all stuffed.

NZFWDA get involved, sort out a deal with authorities and get a card system

Another authority takes up the cause (MANZ or Hot rodders) where the fees are higher and fish hooks are bigger, Manz can/do put levies on anything they feel like, and you WILL get bugger all out of manz in return.
From what i know (which can be limited) hot rodders also have a 1 yr standdown period for certification.

the bitching should be aimed at the govt for changing the rules, not for a organsation for trying to sort out a deal,

Has anyone else in the 4wd scene made a move to work with govt on this matter?
If other 4wd groups made move, and secured a deal then there would be another group bitching about it !!!

Pedro

Correct.

[Mudde1]

o

I think on the NZFWDA side of things their communication hasnt been the best but having said that Tonys making a pretty good effort to answer questions on here and copping a lot of flack for it and I hardly ever read half the shit they send me anyway so I've only got myself to blame for not knowing whats going on half the time

i would be interested to know how we could improve our communication to members, given that reports on progress has been sent to every member by either email or post at least 4 times, it has be discussed at Zone meetings nationwide and was a discussion topic at last years AGM, and will be again this year. We asked for feed back from members twice in our newsletter which went to every member, and received only two replys.
Tony

[Bulletproof]

Can anyone give me a government link to the proposed changes ?

Cheers Richard

And who is pushing for these changes in Government?

I would like to read them myself instead of getting everything 2nd and 3rd hand

Cheers Richard

[badnuz]

While I understand the political motivations behind the authority card system .
The LTSA and LVVTA get all heavily modified 4wds under one authority system and the NZ4WD Ass gains significant political lobbying power by being the controlling authority.

This is how i understand it all

the "Owner" of the "4wd" has to be a "Member" of a "Club"
the "Owner" has to be a "Club" member for more than a year.
The "4wd" must have a current "Cert" issued by the LVVTA
The "Club" then nominates a "Person" inside the "Club" to be responsible for the issuing of an "Authority Card" for the "4wd"
The "4wd" can then get a "WOF"
The "Authority Card is for the "4wd" and as long as it is in the "4wd" any "Other Person" can legally drive the "4wd"

So as long as you jump through all the hoops , you can modify your 4wd how ever you like and anyone can drive it on the road .....

the responsibility for the 4wd on the road still resides with the Driver at the end of the day.

What I fail to see is how this has anything to do with road safety at all.

basically the idea is to stop muppets putting 35's on their surfs and driving to maccas in ponsonby and then ya-hoo ing around town etc... if they have to be members of a club, then that club has the right to not let them become members if they think that person isnt "responsible"

others have already said it, but i will re-itterate it (sp) if we do nothing then the Govt will just say no to ANY LIFT of ANY SIZE and we are all phucked...

[Sadam_Husain]

I think on the NZFWDA side of things their communication hasnt been the best but having said that Tonys making a pretty good effort to answer questions on here and copping a lot of flack for it and I hardly ever read half the shit they send me anyway so I've only got myself to blame for not knowing whats going on half the time

i would be interested to know how we could improve our communication to members, given that reports on progress has been sent to every member by either email or post at least 4 times, it has be discussed at Zone meetings nationwide and was a discussion topic at last years AGM, and will be again this year. We asked for feed back from members twice in our newsletter which went to every member, and received only two replys.
Tony

Yep I hear and appreciate what your saying, the last bit that I wrote about being pretty slack at reading half the stuff thats sent out to me is probably the most applicable although theres still some club delegates that dont forward on to their members all of the info they recieve from the NZFWDA or pick and choose what they do send on, thats a club delegate thing not a NZFWDA thing.

My comment was probably more in response to a thread that was posted up on here a while back asking for as many people as possible to complete an online survay about their vehicle heights and measurements, I never paticapated in it coz there wasnt any information as to what was going on and what the information was wanted for or going to be used for? I dont mean that to sound sinister but it stood out to me that something was going on and nobody was saying what it was?

[wayfastwhitee]

Each truck has to be tested on an individual basis because they all handle differently and each one needs a proper road and brake test at 100kph as is currently done by the Certifier

haha, when i got my cert for lift/tyres etc it couldn't even do 100 at the time

[Bulletproof]

others have already said it, but i will re-itterate it (sp) if we do nothing then the Govt will just say no to ANY LIFT of ANY SIZE and we are all phucked...

I have just spent a lot of time this afternoon reading the LVVTA site and I don't believe this true that LVVTA are trying to stop us lifting trucks.

I think we are being scare Mongered . I didn't come down in the last shower and for 50years I have heard similar things said and it never happens.

Cheers Richard

[badnuz]

Not LVTA..... but goverment ?? ( i could be wrong?)

[tallsam66]

When is consultion with "interested motor industry bodies and members of the public" going to happen.This is a requirement of the code ....so far ive not see any evidence of this & if the "rules " are changed they will be thrown out in a court of law due to lack of consultation. The public needs to be informed officially & in a public manner that changes are being proposed & told how they can make input.

[Sadam_Husain]

When is consultion with "interested motor industry bodies and members of the public" going to happen.This is a requirement of the code ....so far ive not see any evidence of this & if the "rules " are changed they will be thrown out in a court of law due to lack of consultation. The public needs to be informed officially & in a public manner that changes are being proposed & told how they can make input.

try NZTA trev thats probably the best place to start

[Bulletproof]

The LVVTA is the one that makes these rules that are being reviewed.

At the moment they are looking at Vehicles that are mix and match of bodies and chassis (Example quoted is an XE Ford falcon body on a 4 wheel drive Nissan Patrol chassis) and trying to decide whether they are Scratch built or Modified and they are also looking at some of the vintage cars home made bodies.

Anyone can go to their site to see the Current standard and what is being reviewed

If another Government department is pushing for it I want to know what one and what Government person is doing it. Because I will take it up personally with the person in Government

I am sick of all the talk with out facts

Cheers Richard

[Mudde1]

When is consultion with "interested motor industry bodies and members of the public" going to happen.This is a requirement of the code ....so far ive not see any evidence of this & if the "rules " are changed they will be thrown out in a court of law due to lack of consultation. The public needs to be informed officially & in a public manner that changes are being proposed & told how they can make input.

Consultation on Low volume code has been ongoing since the early 1990s. no not every owner of a motorsport vehicle, hot rod, disability vehicle, kit car, trike, modified 4wd and motor-home in NZ was contacted, but those people who showed interest were consulted. Are you seriously suggesting that you intend to challenge NZ Transport Agency over this in court!!! Best of luck. I would suggest you reread my posts (and those of other people who know what they are talking about) with an open mind as much of what you say is factually incorrect, for example, in your earlier posts you "quote" our fees. Not a single one is correct.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

[curly12]

I am sick of all the talk with out facts

Cheers Richard

You should know Richard that is all we get with some people

[Bulletproof]

Consultation on Low volume code has been ongoing since the early 1990s. no not every owner of a motorsport vehicle, hot rod, disability vehicle, kit car, trike, modified 4wd and motor-home in NZ was contacted, but those people who showed interest were consulted. Are you seriously suggesting that you intend to challenge NZ Transport Agency over this in court!!! Best of luck. I would suggest you reread my posts (and those of other people who know what they are talking about) with an open mind as much of what you say is factually incorrect, for example, in your earlier posts you "quote" our fees. Not a single one is correct.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

If all the rules and the laws are changing without public submission this is not good enough, This an area we need to go to our MPs about because it is not good enough. I will take it up with Nick Smith.

People in 4 wheel drive clubs are a minority when it comes to 4 wheel drivers. There are lots of hunters, fishermen, Trampers, Farmers and forestry workers who also lift their trucks and fit bigger tyres. So the NZFWDA only represents a small percentage of 4 wheel drivers

Cheers Richard

[klompy]

This site probaly has more members than the NZFWDA.Still waiting for some official information or link to changes.

[evyauto]

I think most of you are missing the point.

Nah Trev your missing the point, its not the NZFWA thats changing the law its the govt thats doing that?

x2... Without this we could see laws introduced where no one is allowed a lift over 100mm!!!!

Basically what is happening (as happened with Hot Rods) is the Govt says "no one should have a lift over XXXmm's" - NZ4WDA has protected our rights and said certain people need a truck that is lifted over XXXmm's so it is fit for purpose (NOT JUST FOR STREET CRED).

The view is that 4x4er's are better drivers than most so we should be allowed to drive a truck that suits our needs... How do you monitor this???

PC Answer: Appoint a recognized specialist group to monitor their own members...

Said so well

If you lower your car you have the same process you can lower by 50mm provided the under carrage is 100mm off the ground, if not cert. New rule you can lift by x amount then cert, whats the problem these rules have been around for donkeys

[slide]

New rule you can lift by x amount then cert, whats the problem these rules have been around for donkeys

I think the problem that exists is there is no current X amount that a vehicle can be raised before certification is required.
Lowering is straight forward, 100mm from the ground (If suspension still has travel etcetc)
Raising is less straightforward. How much raise depends a lot on suspension type/design, and then how can original height be proved to say (X amount above) OE specs?

Bring on X amount I say- then cert required above this limit. Easy.

Nathan

[DA RAM]

like i said earlier this has been law for many years for modified vehicles on our roads.
4wd's have just slipped through the cracks ,
lets be honest if you saw a 4x4 on 33"s ,25 or maybe less years ago you would have thought what the hell would you use a 4x4 that for ??(my hustler was 1)
its only resently world wide 4wd's have become a real interest outside of mines / armed forces and farming ,
and the LAWS CATCHING UP! ,
if hotrodders , track , race or rally cars had NOT adheard to the law
ie be in a club , have a race licence or a legit reason for such a modded vehicle ,like competition all those years back we wouldnt see them on our roads now
like i also said earlier LESS WOE IS *little 4wd* ME !
or we only see factory 4wds in the future ?
* certed * or not they will make ALL modified 4wds
OFFROAD ONLY !

[tallsam66]

Tony Burgess said on Aug 15 2011
"That has not been decided, but is likely to be similar to NZ Hot Rod fees. They charge $40 for a first application, and $25 for an annual renewal.
"
http://www.nzfwda.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=141

When is consultion with "interested motor industry bodies and members of the public" going to happen.This is a requirement of the code ....so far ive not see any evidence of this & if the "rules " are changed they will be thrown out in a court of law due to lack of consultation. The public needs to be informed officially & in a public manner that changes are being proposed & told how they can make input.

Consultation on Low volume code has been ongoing since the early 1990s. no not every owner of a motorsport vehicle, hot rod, disability vehicle, kit car, trike, modified 4wd and motor-home in NZ was contacted, but those people who showed interest were consulted. Are you seriously suggesting that you intend to challenge NZ Transport Agency over this in court!!! Best of luck. I would suggest you reread my posts (and those of other people who know what they are talking about) with an open mind as much of what you say is factually incorrect, for example, in your earlier posts you "quote" our fees. Not a single one is correct.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA

[DA RAM]

[quote="Bulletproof"]The LVVTA is the one that makes these rules that are being reviewed.

At the moment they are looking at Vehicles that are mix and match of bodies and chassis

FACT IS in 1982 i had a *mix and match ground up built* 1948 ford pop running v8 ford ,hillman super minx front end, hand built chassie
it was a hotrod and i was a hotrod club member ,and plod left me alone
the fact that i was a club member ment i respected the car and the rules that went with it
its been around FOR MANY YEARS
so your a little late to personally TAKE ON the government bulletproof

[Bulletproof]

I am not taking on the government.

No one has produced any statements that the LVVTA or Government has made on the subject yet which make me wonder if it is not the NZFWDA doing all the pushing to get control.

If the law is to be changed the public should know

Cheers Richard