Offroad-Express

SMOKEY wrote:.
Dr_PC, the word SOFT COCK, was also used as I said after my fuse was lit, and I was getting at the person who replied to my safety issues,

FITZY.

cheers for that, last time i recall seeing you a trial was ????????????? buggered if i know ,you do not know me and i been around the trialing scene for approx 20 odd years, in that time i am aware of two instances of crush injuries due to roll over in the trailing scene, to which full recoveries have occured.i have heard of one hell of alot more rugby injuries , so go save some rugby players before you call people soft cocks on this forum

It really gives me the sh*ts when people start complaining about increasing safety measures!!
I'll take my truck as an eg as I know it best. As it stands, it complies 100% with every rule written for winch challenges and the cage is built to ORANZ spec so that I can do some ofroad races next year. Even so I think the cage is not sufficient (and I'm adding a full internal cage to compliment the external).
The problem you have is some people have too much say and because they have been around a while, people don't question them! Human nature and it is the same in every sport/organisation. The rules need to be continually toughened as people will keep pushing the rules and technology changes. It can't be fought, but it must be taken into account.
Winch Challanges have this to a greater degree due to the potential greater speed. When you have people building off road racing trucks and then fitting winches the rules need to be very very tough or people will die! From what I've seen trails is having the same problem with everyone having more HP, better suspension, lighter buggies etc etc. If the rules aren't changed to suit the new inovations then you either stop the inovation or it gets out of control. Stopping innovation is completely the wrong way to go as that is what all 4x4 competition is about.
So you now have a situation where people are building new 4x4 with all the lastest and greatest bits, pushing all the rules (or breaking them) and then when something goes wrong, it os not there fault!
People forgot that the rules are there to not only provide a level playing feild and protect those competing, but also to protect those organising. As someone who regulary organises competitions I couldn't give a flying rats arse if someone doesn't like the safety rules. If they are too stupid to realise the benefit then I don't want them near anything I have to do with!
If I was doing trails I would be using a neck brace (like Dr PC does) and I would also be using nets to keep my body in. To compete in trails you are going to roll, if you don't then you aren't on the limit, so you have to plan for it. That is why trails cages are constructed of such heavy tube sizes. Crumple zones etc are not needed and would be waste of time anyway.

I think the biggest problem in all 4x4 competition is the innovation is happening so fast at present that those at the ledging edge are far out pacing the rule makers ability to keep them in check. I know no one was thinking about 500+ hp trucks when winch challenge rules were written and trails has the same sort of thing happening and this needs to be taken into account.

Sorry for the long post!!

Are competitors getting hurt??.....................
as i stated b4 i come from bike racing, and at every event, someone breaks aomething........

tpft wrote:Are competitors getting hurt??.....................
as i stated b4 i come from bike racing, and at every event, someone breaks aomething........

this is getting well off topic isn't it Gentlemen? And any ladies?

Still, its an important topic, so I'd say this:

Motorcycle, speedway, car, rally, Grand prix, all have known elements of danger and so does 4x4 rallying. if it didn't we probably wouldn't bother doing it. Those other forms of motorsports though operate within internationally recognised safety standards and the application and enforcement of them (mostly) protects the competitors as much as possible and just as importantly the organisers from any liability.

The 4x4 rally/trials sport does not have that luxury. Obviously our safety record is pretty good to date but there must be an ongoing effort to keep it that way. In the event of a serious injury accident organisers might have to prove they had done and did everything they could to minimise the risk. A near miss might even be enough to drive us into the overseeing hands of MANZ to protect the ongoing viability (safetywise) of our sport and believe me we don't want to go there. At the moment its quite handy for instance to be able to use their expired harnesses.

My suggestion is that each recommendation should be rationally and thoughtfully debated - but not necessarily in here - without the messengers getting shot or arguing for the sake of it. We have specific safety issues and there's no harm in developing specific solutions.

We're not always right just because we've been doing it for years. The trucks are getting into places undreamed of only a few short years ago, the hills are getting higher and steeper, the sidlings more like cliffsides in places, the risk to personal and organiser safety is increasing at the same pace.

One of our guys went for a quick blatt for fun on a racing quad recently and now, after several remedial operations, he is becoming used to the idea his elbow now has only about 20% articulation. Its taking longer to get used to his reduced income.

OK so I am a softcock - I pulled/bottled/chickened out of navigating for Dunny in this extreme series (even though we won the MGT fun day and he's quite capable of taking out this series) when I previewed the hazards at Cowpers because I reckoned the risks to my personal safety were too high and I need to be operating at 100% for my family and my employees, the business and the bank. Who doesn't? Why not try to minimise the risk without reducing the thrills or the challenge?

Flash2004 wrote:My suggestion is that each recommendation should be rationally and thoughtfully debated - but not necessarily in here - without the messengers getting shot or arguing for the sake of it. We have specific safety issues and there's no harm in developing specific solutions.

We're not always right just because we've been doing it for years. The trucks are getting into places undreamed of only a few short years ago, the hills are getting higher and steeper, the sidlings more like cliffsides in places, the risk to personal and organiser safety is increasing at the same pace.

Gets my delegate vote.

Flash2004 wrote:OK so I am a softcock - I pulled/bottled/chickened out of navigating for Dunny in this extreme series

Okay now we are getting on the same wave length. Thats not a softcock in my opinion. Thats using your nouse. In the 7 years that I have been 4 wheeling I have NEVER rolled my vehicle onto its roof, Why because I look at what I doing and where i am going or going to go if it goes pear shaped, Yes I have laid it down in its side 6 times but thats all, My wife has put it on its roof once and its side once. seat time makes a diference. I am not serious about my sport but I am competitive BUT I fail to see the sense in writing off my vehicle for 10 points. I would far rather finsihed the day in 3rd than destroy it in the first hazard trying to score a zero

with more capable vechiles, how do u minimise the risk or danger.?
Maybe to minimise the risks, the truck capabilties need to be regulated.

Trials is a old man sport (generally) and old men get scared easily

escept for me and Dan

SMOKEY wrote:I still say after watching the trials on TV there is a real possibility for Limbs to be injured, and it is only human nature for people to put there hand out to safe themselves when they fall over, even if the safety side mesh was high enough to stop legs from getting thrown out and there was an arm restraint on the outside arm I believe it would make a difference.

FITZY.

theres the bloody problem isn't it. you are only seeing the extreme bits on the telly. you need to take a trip to the north island and watch it or make sure you get out and see it when it comes down south this year. its not as extreme as the telly makes it out to be

Pedro wrote:as i said before there is noting preventing people from running extra safety gear.

yup, thats the truth right there

easy answer really

its your life and you decide how you would like to run it

tpft wrote:Are competitors getting hurt??.....................

no they are not

I have in the past had a sore neck/head the next day after a serious roll, but thats the worst I've had and from my memory, the worst trialing accident I can remeber is bruised limbs or a sore back.

nothing more

tpft wrote:
Trials is a old man sport (generally) and old men get scared easily

escept for me and Dan

nup, you're so far from the truth there dude

there are lots of young fullas in our sport these days and some of them are very competitive

so I feel that the above quote is way off course

I have seen your truck at trials but not with you in it, so I'm not sure you are qualified to advise either







SO THE OUTCOME OF THIS SHITFIGHT IS THAT YOU ARE THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR VEHICLE AND IF YOU FEEL THAT THE HAZARD YOU ARE LINED UP FOR IS TOO HARD, THEN YOU DECIDE WETHER TO DO IT OR NOT.

IF YOU WANT EXTRA SAFETY EQUIPMENT THEN TAKE YOUR ASS DOWN TO THE SAFETY SHOP AND SPEND UP LARGE, COZ NOBODYS STOPPING YA.

NOW I MAY HAVE PISSED A FEW FOLKS OFF HERE, BUT I DON'T GIVE A RATS REALLY

I WOULDN'T COME ONTO A SPEEDWAY FORUM OR A MOTOCROSS FORUM AND BLEAT ON ABOUT THE SAFETY MEASURES, QUITE SIMPLY COZ I'VE NEVER BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT SPORT.

SO IF YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN INVOVLVED OR EVEN SEEN THE SPORT IN THE FLESH, THEN ITS BEST IF YOU LEAVE WELL ALONE.


p.s. the sports is TRIALING, not trails, please use the right name, ta



SKIDS 2c worth

darinz wrote:It really gives me the sh*ts when people start complaining about increasing safety measures!!

i am not complaining about increased safety measures, it is more unnecessary safety measures, winch challenges are one hell of a different sport than trialling,

darinz wrote: Even so I think the cage is not sufficient (and I'm adding a full internal cage to compliment the external).

good on you, increasing your own safety cause you want to, not because you have to, you may need ot increase the power to shift the weight

darinz wrote:So you now have a situation where people are building new 4x4 with all the lastest and greatest bits, pushing all the rules (or breaking them) and then when something goes wrong, it os not there fault!

yeah well the government got rid of self responsibility

darinz wrote:
If I was doing trails I would be using a neck brace (like Dr PC does)

i use neck brace cause it is a lot easier on the neck, not compulsory but i want to save my neck

darinz wrote:and I would also be using nets to keep my body in

i can see the use but not the point, i do not believe they would do a hell of a lot for trialling

darinz wrote:I think the biggest problem in all 4x4 competition is the innovation is happening so fast at present that those at the ledging edge are far out pacing the rule makers ability to keep them in check. I know no one was thinking about 500+ hp trucks when winch challenge rules were written and trails has the same sort of thing happening and this needs to be taken into account.

those with 500 hp trucks would do well to invest in all the safety they can lay their hand on, me on the other hand with a lower hp truck and possibly a lower capability truck will invest in safety gear as i see fit to my wagon and limits, just because two or three people indulge in check book racing does not mean i need to spend a shite load more on safety gear not applicable to my truck

pedro

SKID average age of competitors is like around 40..in a few other offroad codes thats a vet.
a few young guys, but mostly most of us here have had a few birthdays..

wot u blind or just won,t face the truth? look around the pits dummy

u seen my truck?
r we talking the little zuk on my avatar, the shiny safari, or the thing taking shape in my shop.

and i have seen your ugly mug a few times and usually in the cheap seat too

as for experiannce i think i have enuff history in m/sport too offer something.

broke my back in two places, got some expensive bits of metal in my backside
and thats with fully legal (at the time) rollcage etc in rallysprint.

rolled over speedway and crushed my right hand (before nets)

had knee and forearm surgery for bike racing,
broke both legs sidecars and lost jobs due to always being hurt.

tpft wrote:SKID average age of competitors is like around 40..in a few other offroad codes thats a vet.
a few young guys, but mostly most of us here have had a few birthdays...

WooHoo I'll be in the young fella's category . Haven't been there for a while and didnt think at 38 I ever would be again.

Heath

Well PEDRO, you know who I am ? , I would prefer you didn't, and yes I don't know you and don't wish to, but just remember If your ever Trialing in the South Island it may well be me that is scoring you, .

A GOOD SCORER BEATS A GOOD PLAYER ANYDAY.

FITZY.

SMOKEY wrote:
A GOOD SCORER BEATS A GOOD PLAYER ANYDAY.

FITZY.

i did not realise scorers can work outside the rules ad ping people for no nets , I have never argued with a marshall on a hazard and know how bloody hard the job can be for them and for a club to find them, so you may be the first

catch ya next year

Heath wrote:

tpft wrote:SKID average age of competitors is like around 40..in a few other offroad codes thats a vet.
a few young guys, but mostly most of us here have had a few birthdays...

WooHoo I'll be in the young fella's category . Haven't been there for a while and didnt think at 38 I ever would be again.

Heath

um 20 is young fulla, at 37 i consider myself not so young fulla...
i think when u can,t chase 18yr old females anymore without getting called dirty old man
then u are a dirty old man

this thread is dragging on a bit now

time to get back on topic I think

Dead right Skid, Dunno if anyone else has posted this, but there's a good promo and program times on this link http://www.suzukixtreme.tv/node/103 Just had a look and Its been updated with the coming week's screening schedules and has the trailer of the afternoon hazards. Looks pretty good.

Just seen that the link http://www.suzukixtreme.tv/node/103 has been updated.

WHERE ARE THE RESULTS??!!! for the 2nd round of the xtreme series in Whakatane. I Know that Derek Smyth won, Martin Walton 2nd, and the two Hamish's were 3rd, but where can I view all results and standings so far? Why is no one commenting on the last round? only a week till the final with Smyth and Repin Leading the series by 1 point to Auret and Simpson, followed by one point to Walton and Walton. This series was such a big hit yet no one seems to be into it on this site. Does anyone know any more than I do?
Who is going to win the series overall?

xxxer wrote:WHERE ARE THE RESULTS??!!! for the 2nd round of the xtreme series in Whakatane. I Know that Derek Smyth won, Martin Walton 2nd, and the two Hamish's were 3rd, but where can I view all results and standings so far? Why is no one commenting on the last round? only a week till the final with Smyth and Repin Leading the series by 1 point to Auret and Simpson, followed by one point to Walton and Walton. This series was such a big hit yet no one seems to be into it on this site. Does anyone know any more than I do?
Who is going to win the series overall?

I would of thought that the xtreme website would have all that stuff, but it seems even they don't want to keep us updated.

PHIL DARK IS A COMPLETE TOSSER



I am watching the show tonight and I am sick of hearing his constant cockups........

wrong names,

wrong vehicle descriptions,

wrong facts (ie; he stated somebody as a past NZ champ which was false)

if anybody from the xtreme series is reading this ( I doubt) then he needs to go.

over the years he has slowly been demoted down through the sports until he landed in our lap.

he repeats himself all the time and is painful to listen to, due to his constant repetative comments and the usual mistakes he habitually makes.

if you insist on using a hand me down, then at least get somebody knowledgable on the sport to preview it before it goes to air.

rant over

SKID

skid wrote:PHIL DARK IS A COMPLETE TOSSER

if you insist on using a hand me down, then at least get somebody knowledgable.

Tony Veitch is available................

um, we only have him and jason gunn to choose from............................
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_pir_WCfNSk

they trying to get general public to watch, us 4wd heads already watching so who cares what we think
still best 1/2hr of tv a week

just got sky back online, whens the next programmes televised?

lilpigzuk wrote:just got sky back online, whens the next programmes televised?

7pm mondays sky sport 3

tommorrow (tuesday) on sky 1 at 6pm I think also.

skid wrote:

lilpigzuk wrote:just got sky back online, whens the next programmes televised?

7pm mondays sky sport 3

When is it on poor mans tv

lilpigzuk wrote:just got sky back online, whens the next programmes televised?

tomorrow sky 1 at 6pm

skid wrote:PHIL DARK IS A COMPLETE TOSSER

No argument there.

What did everybody think of the South African guy (one of the producers?) that commentated last week's episode because Phil Dark was unavailable?

For what my opinion is worth (so about 50c on Trade Me) it was nice to hear someone who was enthusiastic but not to the point he was about to blow his fu-fu valve. And even better there were quiet patches to listen to the amount of revs being used (or just the engine note).

yea, hes the main camera guy that runs around yelling at people, hes cool, and he knows everyone and the trucks, he even helps me promote my sponsor

Denby wrote:

skid wrote:PHIL DARK IS A COMPLETE TOSSER

No argument there.

What did everybody think of the South African guy (one of the producers?) that commentated last week's episode because Phil Dark was unavailable?

For what my opinion is worth (so about 50c on Trade Me) it was nice to hear someone who was enthusiastic but not to the point he was about to blow his fu-fu valve. And even better there were quiet patches to listen to the amount of revs being used (or just the engine note).

um, i truelly thought he was the worst one they ever had on there............