lifts laws to be inforced

[Mudde1]

Currently there is NO WRITTEN rules on this...hopefully soon there will be so that we know where we stand.
People tell you your allowed to do 50mm body lift etc....but there is nothing in any of the official regulations about this ...there isnt even a mention of body lifts at all.
If you dont believe me go read both the VIRM & LVVT manual yourself.....we do need to get this sorted out.[/quote]

Not correct. and yes i I have read both the latest VIRM which is quite specific and has recently been updated.The hobby car manual is also very clear. All body lifts require a cert. I am aware that there are lots of vehicles around with body lifts and no cert, that dosent make them legal.

[Mudde1]

Truck is going for cert next week or week after.
Will this be effecting me?[/quote]
As i said in my earlier post, this will not be retrospective. If the vehicle has a cert, and nothing is changed, that will be fine. changes wont happen by next week.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

[Smurf]

Isn't the hotrod fender exemption allowed partly due to the fact that the vehicles aren't normally used 'everyday' ? Ie show cars and sunday drives? For the most part.

Where as a lot of 4wds are used as daily drivers even though a lot of them are modified.
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i think that it is better that we don't say to much about that.
remember we are only talking about the most extreme of lifts. Small suspension lifts will only require a WOF. "reasonable" suspension lifts and small body lifts will only require a cert. nothing else. extreme lifts will require a cert and an authority card.
Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

Why not talk about it, they get a card to allow a few sunday drives in a vehicle that has no fenders, although all other cars have to have fenders fitted as a WOF requirement??
All modified 4wds have to meet ALL WOF standards ALL the time, We don't get an exemption to allow us to drive them on road with bits missing.
I fail to see how the comparison has been made between their use of a card and us needing the same.
My point I guess, is, our modifications serve a practical purpose, where as no fenders on a rod is purely cosmetic to fit a genre.
What are the levels, you have the body lift, 50mm suspension lift but where is the line for 'extreme lift' to require me to have a 'green card'

[tallsam66]

I suggest NZ4WD assn look carefully at themselves & ask why are there only 3 canty clubs associated with them & 10 in combined.

[vvilly]

1. Years ago i had a 105e Anglia with alot of big mods done to it, it had a declaration paper with it (prior to Certification) which is all i needed for a WOF so in comparison if your truck is already modified like mine with a 8" suspension lift and a 2" bodylift with a current Low Volume Cert why should these rules affect me.

2. I am also currently a member of a NZFWDA club and on my last outing i put my truck on its side (SHIT HAPPENS) does this mean i cant drive and i should not be able to drive my Road worthy truck on the road?

3. I am currently attached to the police due to the earthquake i have sat down with a few of the highway patrol officers and asked them what is there understanding of trucks with modifications ie what are they looking for in comparison of cert tag and modifications

one answer i got is "Some police take special interest in Ricers and i know one officer that is pretty clued up with modified trucks" so for chch sake hope you dont get pulled up by that one officer.

[KIWI_TERRANO]

I have a 4inch lift and was in combined for 2years and sinda club.
although I no longer have time to be in a club.

How are officers and wof inspection propley ment to know the if the vehicle has a 2inch lift or 4inch lift, yes some are easy to tell but for example look at surfs, line 3 up with no mods and none will be the same so where do we draw the line in stock hight?

And what about farmers that put 50mm lifts in with heavy duty springs, and then end up measuring 3-4inchs higher than what they started with just so they can run decent tyres and tow/carry heavier weights? will they get policed the same?

Sounds like a money making sceme and a a way for nzfwda to get membrs so they look better

[gimmemud]

Go ask a cert man how they judge how much lift you have also. When I went in for mine i told him i would be chopping the guards as well but later on. He told me to do it before he signed it off because they take measurements from the bottom of the guard to the centre of the wheel. They wouldn't have a clue how much suspension lift you have if you've also chopped your guards, so how are they gonna say you have over the limit and need your special card to say that your an awesome off road driver?
Lucky for me i have a 95mm suspension lift and 50mm chopped guards aye.

Oh yeah

If I get a bodylift, i WILL NOT be paying $400 for someone to take 2minutes to look at it.

Don't get a body lift then, or don't drive it on the road, pretty simple. Unfortunately there are already some pretty shit laws out there that we have to abide by. Hopefully we can stop this shit one from coming true.

[De-Ranged]

Hey Tony do you know how this is going to affect scratch built cert
The reason I'm asking is scratch built vehicles are classed as new vehicles.... how are they going to set a bench height as to how much lift
The other reason I ask is LVVTA have just changed the rules so steering mods now are classed as scratch built.... that means any SAS'd trucks, X over steering conversions, steering box or component upgrades will be in the same boat

Cheers Reece

Scratch built vehicles are one area that is providing some challenges and no decisions have been made. We do know that there has only ever been two 4wd scratch built vehicles go through the cert system so they are likely to be treated on a case by case basis. Now would be a good time to make suggestions on how that could be handled. As for the second part of your question, I have met with LVVTA twice over this issue and had some very detailed discussions but it was never mentioned that steering mods will make it a scratch built vehicle. I will add this to my list for the next meeting and get back to you ASAP.

Please do Tony as I've started a ground up build which will almost touch every chapter in the HCTM I'm at a level I can still limit things to stay under the 40% threshold... if steering dosn't push me automaticly into scratch built as I was told by Marty
I'm not concerned about exemptions... if I have to get em I'll do it... I'm just concerned about anything that could change my ability to get it certed

Oh a small suggestion stop using the fenderless exemption example... a more practical one would be the seat belt or polycarb windscreen one by MANZ similar conditions to get it but its about practicality and safety instead of looks

Oh and incase no one else says it thank you for your efforts here to explain things

Cheers Reece

Ps I'll send you a pm suggestion for dealing with scratch builts

[yeti]

Oh yeah

If I get a bodylift, i WILL NOT be paying $400 for someone to take 2minutes to look at it.

Don't get a body lift then, or don't drive it on the road, pretty simple. Unfortunately there are already some pretty shit laws out there that we have to abide by. Hopefully we can stop this shit one from coming true.[/quote]
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yep ,,,explained

[bda4130]

When I got a cert the guy asked me how much I had lifted my truck, I said 4 inches, I could have just as easily said 3.75 inches. And as someone mentioned earlier, it's pretty hard to determine what the original ride height was (specially on a saggy assed surf!) the cert fulla did take measurements from the ground up to the chassis rails, but this includes tire height, so imagine if you had 3.75" lift on half worn tires then got new tires and ended up over 4" to me it seems like the grey area on this rule if it comes into effect would be humongous!!!!!!!!!

[J_Dub]

i cant see myself, why all the finger pointing is directed at NZ4WDA.
my understanding is that LTSA were trying to bring in new laws, and pretty much trying to cut out lifted trucks, full stop...

So NZ4WDA are doing what they can to come to a comprimise to keep things relatively fair for the majority of us... without their input, sounds like ltsa were just gona slame all trucks considered modified and not a typical road going vehicle..

correct me if im wrong someone

[LOLYF]

i cant see myself, why all the finger pointing is directed at NZ4WDA.
my understanding is that LTSA were trying to bring in new laws, and pretty much trying to cut out lifted trucks, full stop...

So NZ4WDA are doing what they can to come to a comprimise to keep things relatively fair for the majority of us... without their input, sounds like ltsa were just gona slame all trucks considered modified and not a typical road going vehicle..

correct me if im wrong someone

Your dead right, NZFWDA are trying to help keep our trucks on the road. It seems a lot of the south island guys just don,t want anything to do with something they conceive to be thought up in the north island.

with out NZFWDA input the LTSA could just ban any lift at all, then where would we be?

[kbushnz]

with out NZFWDA input the LTSA could just ban any lift at all, then where would we be?

Agreed, instead of having a bash, get involved and lobby via your club, or as an individual directly to the LTSA.

Calvin

[kiwipete]

with out NZFWDA input the LTSA could just ban any lift at all, then where would we be?

Agreed, instead of having a bash, get involved and lobby via your club, or as an individual directly to the LTSA.

Calvin

I think the point being is that there are supposedly two main bodies catering for the "Offroad" club fraternity in NZ.
NZFWDA and COMBINED.
I have not heard anything about COMBINED being asked for their input. It all seems very one sided to me.

As always it is the messenger that get's shot first, but that's just human nature.
I for one do not participate in club activities although I do belong to one associated with the COMBINED group here in CHCH. I see no point in joining/belonging another club/organisation just so I may be legible for a special dispensation "card" should the need arise.

Yes we do need to start lobbying the LTSA, it is just a shame they do not have a public forum so we can all participate on a level playing ground!

There have been some very good arguments coming out from this forum from both sides but alas I feel it will all fall on deaf ears.

[Sadam_Husain]

I think the point being is that there are supposedly two main bodies catering for the "Offroad" club fraternity in NZ.
NZFWDA and COMBINED.
I have not heard anything about COMBINED being asked for their input. It all seems very one sided to me.

its back on the previous page pete

NZFWDA have for some years been part of LVVTA and put the effort (and finance) into setting LVVTA up. Combined clubs are not part of LVVTA so will not be able to reap the benefits that come from being members. The same applies to ORNZ.
We are happy to talk to Combined about that and the talking has already started.

Tony Burgess
President
NZFWDA

[red-devil]

the only problem i have is the lack od clubs that belone to nz4wda.

as it mainly combind down here.

in chch there are 3
1 of which is web based, how will this work.
1 is more the extreame trucks which i dont do those tracks ,
the last one i dont know much about, will do some homework on them.

my truck is classed as extream with it 4 " lift

the truck is used for faimly trips but we have been caught out an the only reson we(the whole family) got out is cos the truck could doit.
yes the little ones were in the truck but if i was in anything smaler we would have been walkin out for a few hours.

[Ralfie]

the only problem i have is the lack od clubs that belone to nz4wda.

If you want representation on matters such as this with LVVTA then get your club to join the NZFWDA.
Representation such as this is just one of the benefits of belonging to an organisation such as NZFWDA.

If you don't belong, don't get annoyed because you aren't benefiting from the input and work of the members of the NZFWDA. After all its your choice whether to belong or not!

[coxsy]

so from all these posts everone now knows whats happening, needs to be done, and how to help tony in his work

[Jerry]

red-devil wrote:

the only problem i have is the lack od clubs that belone to nz4wda.

If you want representation on matters such as this with LVVTA then get your club to join the NZFWDA.
Representation such as this is just one of the benefits of belonging to an organisation such as NZFWDA.

If you don't belong, don't get annoyed because you aren't benefiting from the input and work of the members of the NZFWDA. After all its your choice whether to belong or not!

seems to me that comment can go the other way round with all the work combined do in their territory , this perhaps is a good opportunity for NZFWDA and COMBINED to start talking to each other and working together, maybe look at an affiliated membership between the 2?. its not rocket science .... sort it out !!! you represent your members !!! not yourselves !!!!

[wjw]

seems to me that comment can go the other way round with all the work combined do in their territory , this perhaps is a good opportunity for NZFWDA and COMBINED to start talking to each other and working together, maybe look at an affiliated membership between the 2?. its not rocket science .... sort it out !!! you represent your members !!! not yourselves !!!!

Trouble is it takes an awful lot of effort from most likely one or two people to get this process going. With everything else going one with DOC CMS reviews, LTSA etc, who has the time? I struggle enough with trying to get to club meetings.

[willferris]

so from all these posts everone now knows whats happening, needs to be done, and how to help tony in his work

i'm semi with you on this one. I need to have my vehicle insured. if NZFWDA has decided they want to be part of the process rather than fight it, some more revenue for them when it eventually becomes law, smart business decision. There isn't much I/we can do without signing up with NZFWDA for a weetbix lift licence to keep things legal. Legal for me means insurance.

There is little point worrying or jumping up an down. Nor is there much hope in joining NZFWDA with the expectation that the larger representation with all the new members wanting their weetbix lift licence, is going to boost membership numbers up 5000, that there greater numbers will give them a louder "voice' they are a business. They can not fight the LTSA / NZTA at the moment, another 5000 isn't going to do a lot. Just add another few hundred dollars into vehicle costs. No point complaining about something we can't change. Consider it an expense. Don't look it as joining a sinking ship.

We're lucky things haven't turned into australian standards [where I think this is heading] where you can't lift a vehicle 1mm without getting it engineered, an expensive process. makes NZ$450 seem like a cheap part of the process.... though it would do away with 6 month warrants which would be sweet.

Michael Bignell
Not a member of NZFWDA currently but appreciative of tony burgess attempts at answering questions. Well done to that man. Not many CEO's or presidents jump onto public forums to educate the minions.

[DaveM]

I personally can't see how this new law will improve safety.
The only change is that you now need a "card" from an affiliated club if you go over 100mm (still need cet). How does this make a vehicle any safer to use on road?

[willferris]

I personally can't see how this new law will improve safety.
The only change is that you now need a "card" from an affiliated club if you go over 50mm (still need cet). How does this make a vehicle any safer to use on road?

I'm not the devils advocate but you are obviously missing the point.
it will improve safety in that those who want to legally want to drive a 100mm lifted vehicle on the road will be deterred by haivng to join a club an say cheese to the club captiain.

At the moment a 15 yr old with no experience can get behind the wheel legally, with no experience and go out driving with his 17yr old mate. Somone who has completed a instant kiwi scratchy learner licence test can drive a vehicle that is lifted to whoknowshowhigh MM ifhte vehicle was deemed to be safely lifted by a certifier. Add in a club captains nomination and there will be less of these, legally on the road, and the less of these on the road the less chance of accidents happeneing. People dying on NZ roads is an expensive business. Cleaning them up doesnt cut the surface. the loss of income they bring to the economy and ongoing tax they would have paid. We can not afford to have people dying. The fewer the better. It is a business. it makes sense. Just join a club an pay away or go outlaw. Don't complain an do nothing.....

[coxsy]

well my last club captain is in on the consult process, also runs his own engineering Business,and new captain is well versed in truck tech as well

[muddyhilux]

i agree with the above but joining a club can be alot harder for some,myself for example,ive driven an 8" lifted vechile for years now and have done many trips.but when it comes to joining a club its almost impossible,most ive looked at require me to attend 3 monthly club meetings all held at night and being a shift worker this requires me to take 3 days annual leave minimum a year,along with going on 3 trips,so not only do i need to find time around work,my vechile has to be not being repaired at the same time and i need to have the money and no family commitments all at the right time 3x minimum again just to join.in the last 3 years i would not have made that many but that hasnt stopped me driving my truck as a daily driver and as said going to many many trips,how will this system work for someone like myself?

i can appreciate all the work nz4wda is doing but should there not be more than one option so to suit 99% of people,if the current option is what goes through ill just have to end up selling my truck cos i just wont be able to meet those requirements (again even though ive been 4wdn for years)

[DaveM]

I'm not the devils advocate but you are obviously missing the point.
it will improve safety in that those who want to legally want to drive a 100mm lifted vehicle on the road will be deterred by haivng to join a club an say cheese to the club captiain.

At the moment a 15 yr old with no experience can get behind the wheel legally, with no experience and go out driving with his 17yr old mate. Somone who has completed a instant kiwi scratchy learner licence test can drive a vehicle that is lifted to whoknowshowhigh MM ifhte vehicle was deemed to be safely lifted by a certifier. Add in a club captains nomination and there will be less of these, legally on the road, and the less of these on the road the less chance of accidents happeneing. People dying on NZ roads is an expensive business. Cleaning them up doesnt cut the surface. the loss of income they bring to the economy and ongoing tax they would have paid. We can not afford to have people dying. The fewer the better. It is a business. it makes sense. Just join a club an pay away or go outlaw. Don't complain an do nothing.....

Sorry, but a 15yo with no experience can STILL get behind the wheel, its not the driver who gets the card, but the vehicle. So again, how is this safer?
How does a club president decide how good a driver is onroad, when they are joining to prove the vehicle is used off road?

I have no problem making the roads safer, but this won't. If these club Presidents are to nominate whether you are capable of driving the vehicle on public roads, they should have a qualification to do so IMO.

So where is your point? How does the law make it safer? What you have said will make SFA difference to safety. I see this nothing more than a money making scheme. We would be better having certifiers having to prove an understanding of the dynamics of lifted 4wds, and actually know what is and isn't safe on the vehicles. THAT would actually help in making the roads safer.

[De-Ranged]

you can join just the NZ4WDA from memory or you could join Kiwi no attendence needed... appreciated but not needed

Cheers Reece

[u13turbo]

Oh yeah

If I get a bodylift, i WILL NOT be paying $400 for someone to take 2minutes to look at it.

Don't get a body lift then, or don't drive it on the road, pretty simple. Unfortunately there are already some pretty shit laws out there that we have to abide by. Hopefully we can stop this shit one from coming true.

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yep ,,,explained [/quote]


Its a daily driver, I have to get a bodylift for 32/33's, so yeah. As said in a previous post, Why cant something so simple be checked at WOF time? People making these laws are just ignorant, I garantee they have no interest in 4wd/offroading at all, so it doesnt bother them at all.

[Lynx]

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... ts#p188588

Anyone remember this?

Body Lifts Suck Anyway. Sure it a cheap way to lift somthing, but theres cheap then theres doing it properly.

My personal opinion.

[gimmemud]

Oh yeah

If I get a bodylift, i WILL NOT be paying $400 for someone to take 2minutes to look at it.

Don't get a body lift then, or don't drive it on the road, pretty simple. Unfortunately there are already some pretty shit laws out there that we have to abide by. Hopefully we can stop this shit one from coming true.

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yep ,,,explained

Its a daily driver, I have to get a bodylift for 32/33's, so yeah.
...

Which will also require a cert for a greater than 5% rolling circumfrence. Then the cert man has to make sure your brakes and drivetrain can handle the larger size tyre. There ya go, you just halved your cert price for having two items.