[quote="Aaron"]The way things are these days if you want to be towed by someone else they must ensure that it is perfectly safe for them to do so.
wrote H2o...
Given the potential injuries that could be sustained for the sake of two $15 tow hooks i don't think this is unreasonable to expect. Especially when its not only the guy without these items who is putting themselves at risk!
I think these two posts say it all, at the end of the day both parties need to do the recovery safely. If you arrive to help and think that it cant be done safely, then so be it.
Loacl recovery squads
H2OLOVA wrote
These days they also insist on a mouthguard before your let on the pitch - why - to prevent injury - This is exactly the same as insisting on quality recovery points before helping. I think most on this forum would have at least those if no other gear & if you don't then expect to have your recovery reqest turned down purely in the intersets of safety.
Having said that if I came across a truck stuck somewhere I'd try & help them out whatever the state of their truck as long as they agreed that any damaged caused was their problem & not mine - no I wouldn't get them to sign a waiver or anything I'd talk it thru with them & explain the issues/dangers - if they got shitty then I probably would drive on.
At the end of the day you can't play rugby without a ball and some boots (minimum requirement) i don't see how this is any different in our chosen sport.
These days they also insist on a mouthguard before your let on the pitch - why - to prevent injury - This is exactly the same as insisting on quality recovery points before helping. I think most on this forum would have at least those if no other gear & if you don't then expect to have your recovery reqest turned down purely in the intersets of safety.
Having said that if I came across a truck stuck somewhere I'd try & help them out whatever the state of their truck as long as they agreed that any damaged caused was their problem & not mine - no I wouldn't get them to sign a waiver or anything I'd talk it thru with them & explain the issues/dangers - if they got shitty then I probably would drive on.
If at first you don't succeed .... Get a bigger hammer!!
I like what is being done here.
However If scruitineering a vehicle and it 'passes' with respect to towing points etc, what are the repocussions if something goes wrong, such as a tow hook breaks and causes damage?
This is alot of the BS that goes on in clubs - stickers on windscreens etc. Does this not hold someone (the checker) liable?
What I am trying to say is I'd hate to see someone check vehicles and then issue a compliance and then have a failure. The approach Al and others currently have by specifying rated hooks front and rear, full recovery gear etc should remain.
NJ
However If scruitineering a vehicle and it 'passes' with respect to towing points etc, what are the repocussions if something goes wrong, such as a tow hook breaks and causes damage?
This is alot of the BS that goes on in clubs - stickers on windscreens etc. Does this not hold someone (the checker) liable?
What I am trying to say is I'd hate to see someone check vehicles and then issue a compliance and then have a failure. The approach Al and others currently have by specifying rated hooks front and rear, full recovery gear etc should remain.
NJ
SWB V6 Paj with one or two mods 
Every club has there own standards when it comes to mounting recovery hooks, as do individuals, so who decides the minimum requirements?
I've seen rated hooks mounted with cheap old bolts, but they're a bit hard to see when there under the mud, and its not nice going to get your strop off the vehicle you just snatched to find the hook only just holding.
I've also seen well mounted hooks, using rated bolts, but deformation around the chassis where they were mouted due to recoverys
I've seen rated hooks mounted with cheap old bolts, but they're a bit hard to see when there under the mud, and its not nice going to get your strop off the vehicle you just snatched to find the hook only just holding.
I've also seen well mounted hooks, using rated bolts, but deformation around the chassis where they were mouted due to recoverys
Last edited by DaveM on Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sadam_Husain
- Angry bird
- Posts: 5164
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: WELLINGTON
It comes down to saftey first and if you dont like the look of it don't do it
I always try and use the hooks on the passenger side of my vehicle to minimise the chance of being in the flight path in the event something desides to give and come flying my way?
.......you never know when it may happen!!
I always try and use the hooks on the passenger side of my vehicle to minimise the chance of being in the flight path in the event something desides to give and come flying my way?
.......you never know when it may happen!!
Hey I am not knocking what you guys are doing here, but you are getting into a serious area and are you really qualified to do it?
So why not join a Club? They have already done all the work with safety and it generally works (well from what I have seen & heard)
Clubs do have a lot of BS, but they know what they are doing. They have many many years of great experience and from what I have seen & read Clubs have big issues with getting safety really going for one simple reason, Lack of Personal Responsibility.
When you set up rules everyone wants to do the Miminium possible to achieve those rules, so Clubs do check and put stickers on the windscreens of vehicles, (I know I belong to one!) but just like a WOF it is only accurate when it is actually checked, It is up to the owner/driver to Maintain that standard!
From what I have seen on this site I would go with a 4WD Club before I would go with some of you guys is how I read some of the replies.
BS or no BS Clubs are generally safe, and they have the history to prove it!
So if this recovery team gets going you are going to have to follow some structure, some rules, get the best advise possible to help, so why not approach a local club or someone who can help you guys get it set up right first time.
I liked Mikes response to my earlier e-mail, I think I struck a cord with him there is a lot of learning here and the idea of a national network is very appealing, but it will not be easy and rules are needed. It is not about money in my view it is all about helping everyone out, safely, sure some people will take advantage of your generorisity, but that is life, the real genuine Kiwi will respond in a genuine way, so I look forward to how all this pans out.
hence my nickname looks like it needs work!
Hence why my 4WD needs work too, too many times made the same mistake!
So why not join a Club? They have already done all the work with safety and it generally works (well from what I have seen & heard)
Clubs do have a lot of BS, but they know what they are doing. They have many many years of great experience and from what I have seen & read Clubs have big issues with getting safety really going for one simple reason, Lack of Personal Responsibility.
When you set up rules everyone wants to do the Miminium possible to achieve those rules, so Clubs do check and put stickers on the windscreens of vehicles, (I know I belong to one!) but just like a WOF it is only accurate when it is actually checked, It is up to the owner/driver to Maintain that standard!
From what I have seen on this site I would go with a 4WD Club before I would go with some of you guys is how I read some of the replies.
BS or no BS Clubs are generally safe, and they have the history to prove it!
So if this recovery team gets going you are going to have to follow some structure, some rules, get the best advise possible to help, so why not approach a local club or someone who can help you guys get it set up right first time.
I liked Mikes response to my earlier e-mail, I think I struck a cord with him there is a lot of learning here and the idea of a national network is very appealing, but it will not be easy and rules are needed. It is not about money in my view it is all about helping everyone out, safely, sure some people will take advantage of your generorisity, but that is life, the real genuine Kiwi will respond in a genuine way, so I look forward to how all this pans out.
hence my nickname looks like it needs work!
Hence why my 4WD needs work too, too many times made the same mistake!
Sadam_Husain wrote:It comes down to saftey first and if you dont like the look of it don't do it
Exactly. Personal responsibility is what it comes down to.
Sadam_Husain wrote:
I always try and use the hooks on the passenger side of my vehicle to minimise the chance of being in the flight path in the event something desides to give and come flying my way.......you never know when it may happen
Good bit of advice that i hadn't considered. Will now though.
***Got the balls, just ain't got the bucks***
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niblik
- Sausage Shack
- Posts: 3305
- Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: erm.. out in the shed for a mo...
good reading on this thread... safety and general awareness really starts to come to the fore when things like 'no recovery points' or correct and apprpriate equipment' come into play..
have the correct gear/equipment. period.
dont take shortcuts, if not 'flush' enough to afford decent equipment, go for a ride along with someone else.. just think about others, aswell as their machines...
my 2c...
have the correct gear/equipment. period.
dont take shortcuts, if not 'flush' enough to afford decent equipment, go for a ride along with someone else.. just think about others, aswell as their machines...
my 2c...
As far as I know, it's not so much a recovery team, more of a list of fellow 4wders that are happy to help you out if you are stuck/broken down.
At the end of the day, hopefully people will use their common sense.
If we do use these contacts, those requiring assistance will pass on any relevant information on what help is required, and then we can decide for ourselves whether or not we are capable of helping, or not.
While clubs have their good points, I have seen a vehicle set up with recovery hooks by a large Wellington club. The rather large new mounts were welded to the chassis, and $400 later, the member had hooks that required a LVC!
At the end of the day, hopefully people will use their common sense.
If we do use these contacts, those requiring assistance will pass on any relevant information on what help is required, and then we can decide for ourselves whether or not we are capable of helping, or not.
While clubs have their good points, I have seen a vehicle set up with recovery hooks by a large Wellington club. The rather large new mounts were welded to the chassis, and $400 later, the member had hooks that required a LVC!
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Leithfield
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:00 pm
needswork wrote: ... getting into a serious area and are you really qualified to do it? So why not join a Club? ... From what I have seen on this site I would go with a 4WD Club before I would go with some of you guys is how I read some of the replies ... BS or no BS Clubs are generally safe, and they have the history to prove it! So if this recovery team gets going you are going to have to follow some structure, some rules, get the best advise possible to help, so why not approach a local club or someone who can help you guys get it set up right first time.
Interesting post Needswork - interesting and provocative; all the more so given your habitually endorsed support of clubs and recent failure to seize upon Supralux's invitation to better introduce yourself. You wouldn't have anything other than altruistic motive for contributing to ORE now would you!?
Not an accusation, however, the premise & character of your posts does make for some fascinating reading:
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... =needswork
Last edited by Leithfield on Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I know this is a sorta selfish take on it.... but if I get called out to help out and I don't like the recovery pionts... they get the option I'll loop off to what ever I feel can take it and its there cost... or I go home 
freind or not!
The people most likely called to help out are those of us who are known to have the serious trucks and gears... the names people recognise from here, those of us who have enough savy to spot an unsafe mount and deal with it
Safety is important but at the end of the day it is the responsabilty of the individual and trying to sort a nationwide club to a "safety level" is an imposibility
My 10c
Cheers Reece
freind or not!
The people most likely called to help out are those of us who are known to have the serious trucks and gears... the names people recognise from here, those of us who have enough savy to spot an unsafe mount and deal with it
Safety is important but at the end of the day it is the responsabilty of the individual and trying to sort a nationwide club to a "safety level" is an imposibility
My 10c
Cheers Reece
I agree with that De-Ranged.
To me the answers simple.
To get on the list you gotta have X,Y and Z criteria. Whether thats ropes, rated hooks,a winch what ever, can be decided later. Don't meet those requirements, not eligible to be on the recover service list. Simple.
Afterall, its only a list of volanteers to call. Not a payed rescue service, not a public service, but a Private ORE service offered to those that are members. The details of which are exclusively available to members. Payed members only perhaps.
The biggest problem with this i can see is that it is bound to create some controversy sooner or later. For example, members doing things they shouldn't, at the wrong time, or in a stiuation they weren't prepared for. The rescue guys spend hours getting them sorted out and on their way, whilst getting furious as it is clearly obvious to them that said people should have been there, or attempted said trip etc etc
There are always going to be situations when some ass gets stuck and its a stupid situation and they get slagged off for it, but thats gonna happen. I feel more so around Chch for some reason?? maybe its just due to the numbers of members and the availability and accessability of places to play.
I also think that a criteria of the recovery service should be that if a trip is to be made, and the people involved are wanting the back up of the ORE recovery service, then the trip should be posted on ORE in the trips section, anouncing what the plan is for the trip etc etc. That could then be tied into the disclosure of personal details of recover service members to the organiser.
That would prevent X from heading out by him/her self for a play one weekend, and the service guys getting a call late in the evening for an all night rescue mission to rescue a group of trucks tht were somewhere that was clearly not a good idea to have been. By posting first, it would clearly give an indication to the trip goers if the trip was indeed a good idea.
Am i managing to get my point accross?? Seems i have been typing for a while
Its agood idea, but keep it simple and safe. At a later date we could organise a simple gathering for some basic training on recovery for service members and wanna be's if it comes to that. In the mean time keep it as a list of those more experienced members with the necessary equipment to get the job done properly and safely.
No need to get all official and proper, just a list of volanteers that may be around if something goes wrong. That way, its as De-Ranged said, I'll offer to do what i can, and its the stranded persons choice as to whether to accept the offer or not. Take it or leave it sorta thing.
My $20.00
To me the answers simple.
To get on the list you gotta have X,Y and Z criteria. Whether thats ropes, rated hooks,a winch what ever, can be decided later. Don't meet those requirements, not eligible to be on the recover service list. Simple.
Afterall, its only a list of volanteers to call. Not a payed rescue service, not a public service, but a Private ORE service offered to those that are members. The details of which are exclusively available to members. Payed members only perhaps.
The biggest problem with this i can see is that it is bound to create some controversy sooner or later. For example, members doing things they shouldn't, at the wrong time, or in a stiuation they weren't prepared for. The rescue guys spend hours getting them sorted out and on their way, whilst getting furious as it is clearly obvious to them that said people should have been there, or attempted said trip etc etc
There are always going to be situations when some ass gets stuck and its a stupid situation and they get slagged off for it, but thats gonna happen. I feel more so around Chch for some reason?? maybe its just due to the numbers of members and the availability and accessability of places to play.
I also think that a criteria of the recovery service should be that if a trip is to be made, and the people involved are wanting the back up of the ORE recovery service, then the trip should be posted on ORE in the trips section, anouncing what the plan is for the trip etc etc. That could then be tied into the disclosure of personal details of recover service members to the organiser.
That would prevent X from heading out by him/her self for a play one weekend, and the service guys getting a call late in the evening for an all night rescue mission to rescue a group of trucks tht were somewhere that was clearly not a good idea to have been. By posting first, it would clearly give an indication to the trip goers if the trip was indeed a good idea.
Am i managing to get my point accross?? Seems i have been typing for a while
Its agood idea, but keep it simple and safe. At a later date we could organise a simple gathering for some basic training on recovery for service members and wanna be's if it comes to that. In the mean time keep it as a list of those more experienced members with the necessary equipment to get the job done properly and safely.
No need to get all official and proper, just a list of volanteers that may be around if something goes wrong. That way, its as De-Ranged said, I'll offer to do what i can, and its the stranded persons choice as to whether to accept the offer or not. Take it or leave it sorta thing.
My $20.00
Awww dude!!
what are you tryin to say about ch-ch people??!!
take it back, or the kitty gets it!!
Kitty photo
(tongue firmly in cheek, not intended to be serious, just tryin to "lighten the mood
)
what are you tryin to say about ch-ch people??!!
take it back, or the kitty gets it!!
Kitty photo
(tongue firmly in cheek, not intended to be serious, just tryin to "lighten the mood
)
Last edited by Goose on Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"He who dies with the most toys wins!!"
What i was tryin to say was that it will just about always be the least equiped and inexperienced guys that will require recovery service, so having standards for those who require assistance will not work. Bets is to have a team of volanteers tha mee some minimum requirement avaiable on a list to becalled if and when needed.
DieselBoy wrote:What i was tryin to say was that it will just about always be the least equiped and inexperienced guys that will require recovery service, so having standards for those who require assistance will not work. Bets is to have a team of volanteers tha mee some minimum requirement avaiable on a list to becalled if and when needed.
I still don't think that a front and rear tow hook is to much to ask. How about a setup where whoever wants to have list available to them has to have their truck scrutineered as such. I'm not talking certification style scrutineering, but getting someone who we feel is responsible and/or experienced enough to run their eye over the installation. I'm sure we could happily organise a day we all get together with our trucks and have the said person check them over (along with the 15 other guys peering over his shoulder and doing their own check
). Could do this at the start of an organised training day maybe.
The other thing is why should i have to meet minimum requirements in my truck when the person getting help doesn't have to?
***Got the balls, just ain't got the bucks***
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mike
- Last minute Mike
- Posts: 3545
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:00 pm
- Location: Christchurch - The place I'd like to be
needswork wrote:Hey I am not knocking what you guys are doing here, but you are getting into a serious area and are you really qualified to do it?
Yes I believe so.
needswork wrote:From what I have seen on this site I would go with a 4WD Club before I would go with some of you guys is how I read some of the replies.
BS or no BS Clubs are generally safe, and they have the history to prove it!
Generally safe is true, although a couple of recent deaths in clubs highlights the fact that everyone and every organisation is capable of mistakes, both were avoidable in my opinion. I personally prefer to go on trips form ORE before any club trip as they are more personal, more fun and safer (I trust the people who I go on trips with from ORE, I cant say that about a strange club member marshalling for me whom you may see once a month on a trip or at a meeting). So you see, there are two sides to every story.
needswork wrote:So if this recovery team gets going you are going to have to follow some structure, some rules, get the best advise possible to help, so why not approach a local club or someone who can help you guys get it set up right first time.
I believe we will have to follow structure and rules which is what we are nutting out in this thread. After it has run its course I will be putting the prototype up in the tripleaders section for another round of scrutinisation before going live with it hopefully at the end of next week. We have a number of respected club people commenting in this thread already so the club opinion is catered for. If we were to approach a local club(being any club in nz as ore is national and has no locale) then it would be months before we heard back as it would have to be put to the floor for discussion and then voted on etc, otherwise it would only be a representive from a club putting their thoughts across and who is to say that this representative is more qualified than one of the experienced members from ORE(who may be a club high ranking club member or not).
needswork wrote:I liked Mikes response to my earlier e-mail, I think I struck a cord with him there is a lot of learning here and the idea of a national network is very appealing, but it will not be easy and rules are needed. It is not about money in my view it is all about helping everyone out, safely, sure some people will take advantage of your generorisity, but that is life, the real genuine Kiwi will respond in a genuine way, so I look forward to how all this pans out.
mistake!
This is exactly what we are aiming for and I believe we will achieve it. There naturally will be some fine tuning to get it running nice and smooth like my Land rover
Mike
1973 SWB Land Rover V8 Hybrid
1994 Toyota Surf
1994 Toyota Surf
maybe a club is quicker 
And like it or not people, what we have have now is club style politics kicking in.
I'm not saying it's an all bad thing, But so many diferent points of view by so many different peole, is always going to be a hard thing to bring to a satifactory conclusion.... You all know the old saying, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, But you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
I,ve been 4wding for close on 12yrs and started with a bog std 2.8 hilux. Back then big tyres were 33", and that was all that was readilly available.
As your skills increased, so did the capabilty of your wheels. You didn't (couldn't) just go out and buy a weapon truck, you just kept adding bits at a time until you had what you wanted at the time.
What I'm trying to say is that we didn't outdrive our capabilities to a point where recovery was impossible by the vehicles that were with us at the time. (point 1 don't 4wd alone)
We now have a fraternity of 4wders of vastly differing trucks and capabilities, But those who (don't take offence,I'm not talking about you) are fresh to the 4wd scene, see those who have the fire breathing bitch trucks, and think they can't be that different to their 4wd. So they have a go at things that they possibly should'nt with the types of vehicles they are traveling with. (point 2 Not only don't 4wd alone, but go with others whose skills and vehicle set up are close to your own)
I don't want to be seen to be bagging anyone here, But on the trips I have done over the years, we have had some serious break downs and sticks, (to the point where the whole front suspension was ripped off one truck on an ugly river bed), But we have never called in outside help or left a truck behind. I beleive this is because all involved had similar driving skills, vehicle capability, and between all of us, mechanical skills. We have always taken care of each other on a trip, and a lot of knowing what to do, is the knowledge to stop, or call a trip off if things look like they could turn to sh*t. (either weather wise, river wise, health wise or vehicle wise.)
Your trip is only as strong as the weakest truck with you (A point worth noting if you are the trip leader)
The only way to gain this knowledge is experience, and watching and learning from those who have done it in the past.
The catch 22 here is that inevitably, to gain some experience you have to go out with the guys whose capabilities are greater than your own, and on some of the trips that these guys will do, your vehicle just may not be up to it.
If you are way out in the boonies, don't afraid to stop a trip and ask if you can park your truck up (assuming you are coming back the same way) and catch a lift in the passengers seat. When things start to get ugly, get out and have al ook at what is going on and how these guys deal with problems as they arise (and they will, I have never been on a hardarsed trip where there were no problems at all).
Sorry to be so long winded (I've got cramp in my hand now so I guess Goose's kitty is safe)
I'm not saying it's an all bad thing, But so many diferent points of view by so many different peole, is always going to be a hard thing to bring to a satifactory conclusion.... You all know the old saying, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, But you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
I,ve been 4wding for close on 12yrs and started with a bog std 2.8 hilux. Back then big tyres were 33", and that was all that was readilly available.
As your skills increased, so did the capabilty of your wheels. You didn't (couldn't) just go out and buy a weapon truck, you just kept adding bits at a time until you had what you wanted at the time.
What I'm trying to say is that we didn't outdrive our capabilities to a point where recovery was impossible by the vehicles that were with us at the time. (point 1 don't 4wd alone)
We now have a fraternity of 4wders of vastly differing trucks and capabilities, But those who (don't take offence,I'm not talking about you) are fresh to the 4wd scene, see those who have the fire breathing bitch trucks, and think they can't be that different to their 4wd. So they have a go at things that they possibly should'nt with the types of vehicles they are traveling with. (point 2 Not only don't 4wd alone, but go with others whose skills and vehicle set up are close to your own)
I don't want to be seen to be bagging anyone here, But on the trips I have done over the years, we have had some serious break downs and sticks, (to the point where the whole front suspension was ripped off one truck on an ugly river bed), But we have never called in outside help or left a truck behind. I beleive this is because all involved had similar driving skills, vehicle capability, and between all of us, mechanical skills. We have always taken care of each other on a trip, and a lot of knowing what to do, is the knowledge to stop, or call a trip off if things look like they could turn to sh*t. (either weather wise, river wise, health wise or vehicle wise.)
Your trip is only as strong as the weakest truck with you (A point worth noting if you are the trip leader)
The only way to gain this knowledge is experience, and watching and learning from those who have done it in the past.
The catch 22 here is that inevitably, to gain some experience you have to go out with the guys whose capabilities are greater than your own, and on some of the trips that these guys will do, your vehicle just may not be up to it.
If you are way out in the boonies, don't afraid to stop a trip and ask if you can park your truck up (assuming you are coming back the same way) and catch a lift in the passengers seat. When things start to get ugly, get out and have al ook at what is going on and how these guys deal with problems as they arise (and they will, I have never been on a hardarsed trip where there were no problems at all).
Sorry to be so long winded (I've got cramp in my hand now so I guess Goose's kitty is safe)
Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!
here .................here ............ rockhound
though i think a list of people living in close proximity to rivers should post numbers for that odd occassion that there is a need for help
im near the mouth of the waipara and can be in the river bed in five mins or 30 mins for the topend and would be happy to help for the price of breakage and fuel (overheads)
though i fear somone will get on there high horse about insurance in these matters when help is offered
rik 0211161362 033147210
maybe newbys should ride shotgun with more expirienced drivers to see how easy it is to get stuck
though i think a list of people living in close proximity to rivers should post numbers for that odd occassion that there is a need for help
im near the mouth of the waipara and can be in the river bed in five mins or 30 mins for the topend and would be happy to help for the price of breakage and fuel (overheads)
though i fear somone will get on there high horse about insurance in these matters when help is offered
rik 0211161362 033147210
maybe newbys should ride shotgun with more expirienced drivers to see how easy it is to get stuck
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Leithfield
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:00 pm
hiriklux wrote: ... im near the mouth of the waipara and can be in the river bed in five mins or 30 mins for the topend and would be happy to help for the price of breakage and fuel (overheads)
though i fear somone will get on there high horse about insurance in these matters when help is offered
If I might borrow inspiration from Monty Python: "Nice one Centurian ... like it, like it"
.We do have a very simple system open to us here - If someone from ORE calls on someone else from ORE to help them out & the helper arrives to find the helpee (for want of a better word) completely underprepared for the position they are in (ie not hooks etc) then 2 things happen.......
1. the helper makes a decision whether to help or not
2. the helper comes home back to his pc/mac goes online & posts pics of the useless prick they went out to help & bags the crap out of them so they are shamed into leaving ORE forever & never ask for our help again - or at least word gets round that when that person rings for help a polite "sorry I'm busy" is received
Maybe I'm harsh but the internet is great asset for helping to spread "information" about folk.
1. the helper makes a decision whether to help or not
2. the helper comes home back to his pc/mac goes online & posts pics of the useless prick they went out to help & bags the crap out of them so they are shamed into leaving ORE forever & never ask for our help again - or at least word gets round that when that person rings for help a polite "sorry I'm busy" is received
Maybe I'm harsh but the internet is great asset for helping to spread "information" about folk.
If at first you don't succeed .... Get a bigger hammer!!
needswork wrote:Sounds like the way to go, But all you are doing is reinventing what 4WD Clubs do, so why not just join a club?
They have all that as part of their minimum standards.
OMFG! People STOP!
I've just read the 4-odd pages of stuff that has appeared on here in the last day and I'm amazed. You've all lost the plot. The most sensible thing here was written by the one guy I was about to flame for the rest of his comments regarding clubs... but this statement says it all (mostly
)
We are not taking on a club, nor are we taking on Shane Stuart... We were talking about a simple list of people you could call for help.
Common sense prevails - if you've got enough knowledge in recovery then you will walk away from a potentially unsafe recovery due to insufficient safe attachment points or what ever on the truck to be rescued - at that point you give the guy a beer to make the $280-odd a little less painful, and call Shane - its what he does, and by all reports does well - and he charges for it accordingly - good for him, learn a lesson and move on.
And as for people to call, most of us have several others in our cellphones to call anyway - unfortunately by the time I was called by 4x4boy I can only assume I was back at the shed where reception is bollox - sorry I missed the call, I would have done my best to help.
Anyway, my point is that this site is about networking, learning, meeting people and 4WDing together... probation period??? Geez, thats just the time it takes to get known on here and do a couple of trips and get a few guys numbers.
YOU HAVE ALL LOST THE PLOT - GO BACK TO BASICS
Ok, my point (in case you missed it) is that this idea was good, but is probably going to be too hard to manage, too easy to abuse and will quite probably end up getting someone in trouble or hurt (or both). We are relying on people to decide if they are competent to recover people or not, and how they will do it... unless you stipulate an NZQA qualification requirement, you will never know who can really do it and whos blowing smoke out their ass to make themselves seem more capable than they really are.
Drop the list idea - it started well, but its gone over the top and will probably never be able to be worked properly - just start talking to the guys you are 4WDing with... introduce yourself, affer a guy a beer while you're watching someone get extracted from the mud... communicate, and exchange cell numbers at the end of the day... Thats what this site should be about - friendship and warm fuzzy shit like that.
Furgus wrote:We do have a very simple system open to us here - If someone from ORE calls on someone else from ORE to help them out & the helper arrives to find the helpee (for want of a better word) completely underprepared for the position they are in (ie not hooks etc) then 2 things happen.......
1. the helper makes a decision whether to help or not
2. the helper comes home back to his pc/mac goes online & posts pics of the useless prick they went out to help & bags the crap out of them so they are shamed into leaving ORE forever & never ask for our help again - or at least word gets round that when that person rings for help a polite "sorry I'm busy" is received
Maybe I'm harsh but the internet is great asset for helping to spread "information" about folk.
Thats what i was tryin to get accross. It will happen. Its unavoidable.
All it needs to be is a simple list. To except or provide the help is at the discretion of those at the sceen at the time. Its un-official, its just a group of mates helping each other out, which is how we organise trips on line, its the OREway.
Everyone take a step back and look at what we were trying to acheive in the first place
Perhaps Steve has the answer................
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mike
- Last minute Mike
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markr wrote:When you all sort out how you want to do it. I'm more than happy to write and place a secure database online for your use...
already done, integrated into the site so logins etc are part in parcel of the existing site. But wouldnt mind integrating the data into this sms thing you were talking about)
Mike
1973 SWB Land Rover V8 Hybrid
1994 Toyota Surf
1994 Toyota Surf
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mike
- Last minute Mike
- Posts: 3545
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:00 pm
- Location: Christchurch - The place I'd like to be
SupraLux wrote:Drop the list idea - it started well, but its gone over the top and will probably never be able to be worked properly - just start talking to the guys you are 4WDing with... introduce yourself, affer a guy a beer while you're watching someone get extracted from the mud... communicate, and exchange cell numbers at the end of the day... Thats what this site should be about - friendship and warm fuzzy shit like that.
Sorry to say but that aint going to happen
. I was asked to make/incoperate something into the site and I have, I am not about to turn around and throw away the hours of putting this togeather just because the 4wdstuff man says to 
. The start of the thread supported the idea. It still is simple in the way I have implimented it, it just needs some access control put around it. All it has done is create a huge discussion on recovery stuff. Also, the longest and most negative post in this entire thread happens to be yours Steve 
Mike
Last edited by mike on Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1973 SWB Land Rover V8 Hybrid
1994 Toyota Surf
1994 Toyota Surf
SupraLux wrote:Common sense prevails - if you've got enough knowledge in recovery then you will walk away from a potentially unsafe recovery due to insufficient safe attachment points Thats what this site should be about - friendship and warm fuzzy shit like that.
Isn't the whole idea of trying to make 4wding more enjoyable for everyone by preventing the situation where you would have to walk away from a recovery in the first place? That's where the warm fuzzy bit comes in... being safe in the knowledge that if i do push the envelope a bit far then i can confidently ring x on my list and he can come help knowing that hes not going to waste his time driving to wherever to find a truck he can't end up doing anything with.
Again i repeat
Its only $30.00 to have a rated tow hook front and rear
***Got the balls, just ain't got the bucks***