Offroad-Express

Since the introduction of low sulpher diesel, I have been concerned about upper cylinder lubrication in my PZJ70 Cruiser. I have used Castrol EDT as a diesel additive but haven't really noticed a result because I don't have anything to compare with. Does anyone else use fuel additive and if so, what do you recomend???

Sorry, I mean Wynns EDT.

i'm not a fan of wynns.

chemtech is good and Moreys is not to bad either.
there is nothin to compare to, if its working you shouldn't have the seals or pump fail. but they can still fail for other reasons. find something thats reasonable, chuck it in and cross your fingers

I use the Moreys stuff. Even if it achieves nothing, it's only costing me $18 every 1000km or so.

hi, I use Moreys also I contacted them after the change to see how well they thought it would go in my boat cause the last thing I would want was to put new fuel in and kill my injector pump at sea. they were willing to give it to me in writing that adding it to my boat would protect my pump which although not worth much it was more than the other companies would do. I found it reduced the smoke and is keeping my fuel better in the tanks. I now add it to all my diesel (boat tractor and two 4X4's

On my 92Terrano I used Moreys mainly just to help keep the injectors a little cleaner and now that I have seen the light and bought a later model Surf I still keep using it. I am not sure if it makes any difference as the last time I had my injectors done the guy at Diesel Services said use it if you think it is doing any good but in his opinion it was a waste of money. Could be he was looking at creating more work for himself.
One thing I have noticed is that when Gull Fuel came on the market my Terrano ran a lot better on it, more power and just ran a lot smoother. These days the difference in fuel brands is hardly able to be noticed so guess the other suppliers have got their act together.

When i bought my Safari the 4.2 was very clogged. Max speed up the bombays was around 85kph before t pissed black smoke.

After running morleys through it for a few tanks that max speed has increased to around 110. Could be the additive or it could be the open road driving- or a combination.

I also find that i smoke more simply when not using the stuff.

Its far better value than all others Ive found- One 19$ish bottle of Morleys additive does quite a few tanks of gas.

Another vote for Moreys here

Morey's goes in my 80 series.

flyingbrick wrote:When i bought my Safari the 4.2 was very clogged. Max speed up the bombays was around 85kph before t pissed black smoke.

After running morleys through it for a few tanks that max speed has increased to around 110. Could be the additive or it could be the open road driving- or a combination.

I also find that i smoke more simply when not using the stuff.

Its far better value than all others Ive found- One 19$ish bottle of Morleys additive does quite a few tanks of gas.

I think with a little work done on the injectors and the fuel pump you may find your Safari will pull a little more than 110kph going up the Bombays. The additives are only a preventative measure and will not fix injector nozzles that are not spraying the correct amount or pattern of diesel. Erosion of the holes in the nozzles can lead to over fueling and incorrect pattern being sprayed. On my vehicles they go in for a pump service and nozzle check or change every 80,000km.
You are right about giving it a good blowout by putting the engine under load. Our trucks at work are 2.8 short wheelbase Isuzu's and they do a lot of cold running but once in a while we have to take them out to Henderson or over the North Shore from central Auckland and they are totally different vehicles when they come back. The smoking disappears and the engines sound a lot better.

hey four by four how much is it to get your truck for a 80,000km service?

i use pennz-corp Oil Pro, its like 40bux for one liter use about 20 25ml for 65 liters so will last me awhile, have noticed an increase in mileage, was getting 515 now 570ish

also tried lucas diesel treatment and it was rubbish never finished it it was that crap

Last Time with the terrano the nozzles had to be replaced and fuel pump tweaked was $420 that was for an injection service. Most of the normal stuff like filters I do myself. I use the Finer filters washable air filter and always carry a spare sleeve for it. I found the 2.7 terrano starved for air and I got better air flow through the filter this helped keep the temperature down when climbing long hills.

ahh thats interesting you say you got a better temp readings after i new air filter etc, coz at the start of the year i took my truck up to Rotorua had little gear on board and one passenger and it didn't like hills, temp climbed a little high had me worried, anyway since then i put on a pod filter on (just a cheaper one) went to Hamilton with tray filled with camping gear and 3 passengers and it didnt even climb in temperature! also went better i think... also notice instead of 9.4L to 100km with standy airfilter i got 8.7! so heavier load and the only diff was the new pod filter i was amazed at the difference!

wildplumdx wrote:ahh thats interesting you say you got a better temp readings after i new air filter etc, coz at the start of the year i took my truck up to Rotorua had little gear on board and one passenger and it didn't like hills, temp climbed a little high had me worried, anyway since then i put on a pod filter on (just a cheaper one) went to Hamilton with tray filled with camping gear and 3 passengers and it didnt even climb in temperature! also went better i think... also notice instead of 9.4L to 100km with standy airfilter i got 8.7! so heavier load and the only diff was the new pod filter i was amazed at the difference!

The 92-95 R3M auto Terranos were notorius for cooling problems I did almost everything to try and fix it in the nine years I owned the vehicle. The only thing I should have done was to put a thicker core in the radiator,there is room for a core that is approximately 12 mm thicker, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I have friends who have done this mod and they all reported a big improvement but I did all the usual stuff like thermostat, viscous fan/waterpump unit, regular flushing and Injectors/fuel pump serviced cleaned and all were slight improvements but nothing as dramatic as I was hoping for. I do believe these vehicles were designed for a cooler climate than what we experience in our summer. The problem was basically caused by a small inefficient cooling system on an engine that was working its arse off to provide enough horse power.
I must admit that I was also surprised at how much difference the Finer Filters air cleaner filter made but as the guy who sold it to me said the holes in the cartridge are not any bigger there is just a lot more of them. I always carry a spare sleeve in a ziploc plastic bag so if I feel the filter does need replacing I can easily change it. the air filter cost $120 with a spare sleeve and I used it for over six years and was still on it when I sold it. Last time I bought a paper filter (throw away) it cost me $48 (probably a lot more expensive now) so when you sit down and do the sums it did save me money. Just a thorough wash in Simple Green followed by a good rinse and allow to dry then re oil it and pop it back in the ziploc bag.

whoops i got that wrong 8.7 is worse than 9.4! oh well it ran alot cooler got lower EGT readings too, for the price of using more diesel

wildplumdx wrote:whoops i got that wrong 8.7 is worse than 9.4! oh well it ran alot cooler got lower EGT readings too, for the price of using more diesel

Nope, you were right first time.

8.7L/100kms is better than 9.4L/100kms (using less fuel to cover the same given distance).

I use moreys also. All things being equal, have noticed when used according to label it increases my EGTs by up to 50 deg C. It states it increases the cetane rating of the fuel by five points so I figure the higher EGTs are happening cause of bigger bang caused by higher cetane levels. Maybe this is how it is supposed to keep everything cleaner - a more intense burning fuel?

Edit, delete (Mis-read earlier post)

To be quite honest I never noticed that Moreys made any difference to the the temps on either the Terrano or the Surf, for the small amount you put in it is pretty diluted in our vehicles. 50 degree's celsius is a pretty significant jump in temperature. Most vehicles are set up to run around a max 8O degrees celsius under maximum load on the open road and with a 50 degree celsius raise in temperature you are looking 130 degees even with a pressure cap on the radiator your radiator is going to be boiling. Normal boiling temperature is 100 degrees and with a pressure cap you might be able to raise this another 10 degrees but when you are looking around 130 a cooked engine is soon to follow. Could be that other things are giving you these temperature fluctuations. Certainly at those temperatures something needs to be done about it or your going to be in for costly repairs. By the way what size is your tank and how much additive were you using.

Cetane rating of diesel is a number that is indicative of the time it takes for a charge of diesel to start to burn once injected into the pot. I understand the minimum cetane rating of NZ diesel is about 47 and the actual is variable apparently depending on each brew of crude feedstock. Once over 55 there is really not a lot of difference. Cetane rating of biodiesel is a lot higher depending on the feedstock up around 64-66. The higher the cetane rating the less the delay till burn starts. This to me indicates a more intense burn for any given rpm level. This is most likely the reason my truck smokes less when running on treated diesel. All or most of the fuel has burnt before the start of the exhaust stroke. This goes counter to me noticing higher EGTs as it is the unburnt fuel that is still burning when it gets into the exhaust that gives higher EGTs.

One of the things that may be causing this higher EGT. I notice a small increase in power while running on treated fuel. Small but noticable, in a 2.8 litre diesel land rover any increase in power is too hard to imagine so it must be real . Due to this perceived increase in power I accelerate a bit quicker (0-100 in 40 seconds rather than 0-90 in 60 ) and run at a slightly higher road speed with what seems like less effort from the truck.

Could be a function of many things but over time of observing this has generally been the result. Once I get a set of injectors cleaned and replaced, we'll see if they stay clean, but in the meantime I enjoy less smoke, seemingly more power, but at the cost of slightly higher EGTs.

Edit: Please note I am talking about EGTs - Exhaust Gas Temps not water temps. I do not notice any huge change in water temps. This measure is an indication of head and engine temperature and not to be confused with the more volitile EGT. My engine is not about to go ballistic and shred the bonnet. I have a 75 litre tank and I add one segment or measure of the treatment to it each fill. When i use the treatment every second time, I usually only put in about 60 litres so it is even more dilute than suggested on the pack.

Right got you now, unfortunately most of us don't have access to the luxury of pyro's on our four wheel drives to measure exhaust gas temperatures but I do see where your coming from now. Maybe it is because with the additive you are burning all of the fuel injected into the engine. Incidentally what temperatures were you getting before and after the additive.
As i stated before the additives are only really a preventative maintenance and if your injectors are seriously blocked or the holes in the nozzles erroded no amount of additive is going to make any difference. Mine gets the prescribed dose of Moreys every third tank fill and that seems to work for me but as has already been stated that sometimes a good run under moderately high load can also give things a good clean out as far as the combustion chamber. Most diesels hate that running around town at low engine temperatures.

Fourbyfour wrote:Right got you now, unfortunately most of us don't have access to the luxury of pyro's on our four wheel drives to measure exhaust gas temperatures but I do see where your coming from now. Maybe it is because with the additive you are burning all of the fuel injected into the engine. Incidentally what temperatures were you getting before and after the additive.
As i stated before the additives are only really a preventative maintenance and if your injectors are seriously blocked or the holes in the nozzles erroded no amount of additive is going to make any difference. Mine gets the prescribed dose of Moreys every third tank fill and that seems to work for me but as has already been stated that sometimes a good run under moderately high load can also give things a good clean out as far as the combustion chamber. Most diesels hate that running around town at low engine temperatures.

Should point out also it is a normally aspirated (non turbo) LD28 in a land rover 110, running skinny 750/16 (31") tyres on standard gearbox, t/box and diff ratios. Condition of injectors unknown. Pyro and all the other assorted gauges satisfy a curiosity. I am a curious f***er.

Normal easy open road speeds, rpm and temps are 95kph, 3000rpm, h2o temp about 70-80 deg C, EGT about 450 deg C.
Treated fuel easy open road speeds etc etc are 95-100kph, 3000rpm, h2o temp about 70-80 deg C, EGT about 500 Deg C.

Agreed on the blast of high revs.

Windsock wrote:Cetane rating of diesel is a number that is indicative of the time it takes for a charge of diesel to start to burn once injected into the pot. I understand the minimum cetane rating of NZ diesel is about 47 and the actual is variable apparently depending on each brew of crude feedstock. Once over 55 there is really not a lot of difference. Cetane rating of biodiesel is a lot higher depending on the feedstock up around 64-66. The higher the cetane rating the less the delay till burn starts. This to me indicates a more intense burn for any given rpm level. This is most likely the reason my truck smokes less when running on treated diesel. All or most of the fuel has burnt before the start of the exhaust stroke. This goes counter to me noticing higher EGTs as it is the unburnt fuel that is still burning when it gets into the exhaust that gives higher EGTs.

One of the things that may be causing this higher EGT. I notice a small increase in power while running on treated fuel. Small but noticable, in a 2.8 litre diesel land rover any increase in power is too hard to imagine so it must be real . Due to this perceived increase in power I accelerate a bit quicker (0-100 in 40 seconds rather than 0-90 in 60 ) and run at a slightly higher road speed with what seems like less effort from the truck.

Could be a function of many things but over time of observing this has generally been the result. Once I get a set of injectors cleaned and replaced, we'll see if they stay clean, but in the meantime I enjoy less smoke, seemingly more power, but at the cost of slightly higher EGTs.

Edit: Please note I am talking about EGTs - Exhaust Gas Temps not water temps. I do not notice any huge change in water temps. This measure is an indication of head and engine temperature and not to be confused with the more volitile EGT. My engine is not about to go ballistic and shred the bonnet. I have a 75 litre tank and I add one segment or measure of the treatment to it each fill. When i use the treatment every second time, I usually only put in about 60 litres so it is even more dilute than suggested on the pack.

You mentioned Cetane rating...apparently one of the oil companies (possibly BP) is looking at bringing out a better quality diesel with a higher cetane rating ..it will give better economy & be better environmentally but will cost more ..it maybe called Diesel Ultimate.

Up until about three years ago New Zealands standard for diesel fuel was among the lowest in the world in fact there was not much difference between it and the fuel used in the old central heating units. No one realised how bad it was until the companies like Gull started bringing in imported diesel. The difference was quite significant as found out with my old 2.7 turbo Terrano. If i tried to maintain 100kph going up the Bombays by the time you got to the top you would be down to 85 kph and that was flooring it at the bottom. With my first tank of Gull I was cruising along at 100 and floored it by the time we got to the top we were up to 125. For a long time Gull was the only fuel I ever used. The word soon got around and the fuel companies here had to raise their standard and now there is not much difference between any of them.

oh right well for my latest tank i got 556km to 57 liters and i got 9.6km so higher would be better correct? i know people work it out by liters used per 100 km which you want to be lower to be better... but i'm unsure as to how you do that, would be keen to know how tho?

wildplumdx wrote:oh right well for my latest tank i got 556km to 57 liters and i got 9.6km so higher would be better correct? i know people work it out by liters used per 100 km which you want to be lower to be better... but i'm unsure as to how you do that, would be keen to know how tho?

Divide your fuel consumption [X litres] by your distance travelled [Y kilometres] and you get 0.1025 litres per kilometre.

Multiply this by 100 to get the ratio for 100km... (X/Y) * 100 = 10.25 litres of fuel consumed per 100kms travelled.

EDIT: Remember though... if you've got bigger tyres on or changed the ratios somewhere, your speedo and therefore your odometer may be giving false distance... watch for this when calculating...

wildplumdx wrote:oh right well for my latest tank i got 556km to 57 liters and i got 9.6km so higher would be better correct? i know people work it out by liters used per 100 km which you want to be lower to be better... but i'm unsure as to how you do that, would be keen to know how tho?

57 divided by 5.56 = 10.251798 litres per 100km

oh sweet, thanks guys would be interested to hear what you guys get from your diesel engines models etc?

4-5 of us from Canterbury club with 87-92 model diesel 4wds - isuzus, cruisers etc started using Wynn's EDT when the low sulphur fuel came in about 3 years ago. Result to date = none of the trucks have needed pump seals done, whereas a hell of a lot of other trucks have. Wynns appears to work well - keeps seals soft, cleans out bugs and keeps the injectors in good nick - 230k now and no injector job.

From club experience I believe moreys is also a good product.

With the Terrano 2.7TD auto on a run between Jaffaville and Hamilton which is pretty much flat running apart from the Bombays the Terrano turned in 11.11 km per litre of diesel or about 9 litres per 100km. While the economy was good you paid for it in performance. It was easy run in overdrive most of the way. The Terrano didn't have the performance of most modern similar sized diesels.