Offroad-Express

thought i'd introduce my self as i'll probably start tagging along on some trips round the canterbury area

Names Dane, long time reader of these forums lots of useful information! im 19 and a computing student... my hobbies are drinking beer, anything with a motor in it... accept hondas driven by a boy racers

where to start... caught the 4wd'n bug last year on a snowboarding trip down in wanaka where the weather was to crappy to go snowboarding and i had borrowed my parents range rover they just bought... found a big muddy hill so spent alot of our week trying to get up that hill, and sliding back down.

finally decided to sell some vehicles to buy a truck for winter, was looking on trade me and 1 caught my eye, so here i am now owner of a 87 surf with a new reconditioned 2lt-e - i must admit though... its just not the same 4wding without a v8 under the hood

mods so far are 2" suspension lift 2" body lift front bull-bar flares from repco ($180!!!!) manual hubs ah an average sterio system a snorkel that i haven't put on yet as i have a broken hand so its a little difficult! tow ropes other recovery gear and some other bits and pieces

Am planning to do some more work to it to make it a moderate 4wd but can't get to carrey'd away(sas, engine conversion etc) as i already have two other project vehicles that i need to finish before i get stuck into the hilux!

at the moment mods are looking to be:
-install snorkel!
-install front rated tow hook(already have the hook)
-fix steering arm, i bent it on something and my ball joint now rubs on it!, might add some ball joint spacers in while im at it as i don't like winding torsion bars up to far they feel to stiff and i need a cert for the body lift anyway what you think?
-then I'm planning on making a good solid front bash plate, so i don't bend my steering arm/tie rods again!
-extended diff breathers
-Take rear tow bar off, make up a bash bar to replace it and get a bracket made up to attach a rated tow hook to the rear chassis area.
-33" mud tyres with h/d tubes and some of those quick release valve things, although not sure on this now after what I've read on here about the 2.4 not being able to spin them, i dont mind a slow truck on the road though, and i don't mind use'n 4low when 4wdn. have a/t 31"'s on there at the moment and there useless in the mud!
-Front diff locker
-tighten up/shim the rear Lsd
-make up sway bar disconnects
-Uhf/prs base set radio


All up i think thats going to leave me with a pretty capable truck that will hopefully keep me happy long enough to fix my motorbike i crashed and complete my hq 1 tunna project! any suggestions criticisms welcome

chuck in a few pics

4wdn the range rover


and the new addition to the family

where are you studying? canty uni?

Nah I'm too lazy for uni haha... im doing BICT at CPIT. still not a walk in the park tho. just completing a 4000 word essay at the moment, which i started on friday...

Welcome to the forum mate, your in hilux country down there so you'll fit in well with the ORE crowd, keep your eye out for trips posted on the forum and go out and meet some of the guys

Theres a wealth of information about Hiluxes and surfboards and mods etc in the forum archives if you've got a spare few days to sift through it all

Welcome mate, looks like you've got it pretty well sussed, one thing I'd be a bit cautious about is the front locker, in an IFS wagon it can be a good way to start exploding your CV's!

Cheers
Clint

Welcome to O.R.E, Looks like a nice truck you've got there and look forward to seeing it some trips

Actualy I would go for a front locker, just be carefull the IFS is a fit of a limitation and the front diff a little too weak. The locker strengthens the weaker diff watch geting both wheels in the air if one lands first you will grenade a cv if you drive wisley or get out of the gas when the nose is lifting you should be OK.

Good choice in 4wd and wise mods, you will find more extreme will take you that much further but when learning you can get stuck in the most well setup truck just as easy, in fact driving a good 4wd as far or further than the best viehicle makes you feel a lot better and you learn a lot more too.

cheer guys

ah yes CV's... what can you do, beyond going solid axle haha. The reasoning for wanting the locker was, obviously to have the benifits of a locked front diff but also from what i have read on this site about the front diff being weak i would rather be breaking CV's than diffs. The 33" tyres that I'm planning on aren't likely to help with the CV Problem either

I do have quite a heavy foot so the plan is to buy one off those ball joint separator tools and get good at replacing CV's . If i get fed up with replacing them then i guess ill have to just do a solid axle swap!

Has anyone here done the ball joint lift on a hilux? did you notice the improved suspension travel over having your torsion bars wound up? I find its quite easy to lift one of the rear wheels off the ground when descending down a hill on an angle with the two front wheels over the edge as the front doesn't have very good articulation. Still not sure if i want to go ahead with it as unless i drop my diff it might be putting more of an angle/pressure on the CV's

daneo wrote:the plan is to buy one off those ball joint separator tools and get good at replacing CV's

you mean a big hammer? welcome. your surf i quite sure had a model with a solid axle front from the factory and im 90%sure you can just do a chassis swap later on down the track. its easier than a SAS.

Sam

Hmm I know a couple of people who have done chassis swaps and a few that have done SAS, the results speak for themselves the SAS guy's would do it all over again the body swap guy's would do a SAS.

The swap isn't really that technical but you have a lot of crap to disconnect and re-hookup, with the SAS you get axle Springs etc, put in your pivots and spring hangers poss a new driveshaft but as long as you or someone you know can weld you are away the trick is the cert a chassis swap is a lot more work but a cheaper cert.

Chopper did a chassis swap maybe he will advise what way he would go if he had to do it again but the couple I know of thought less work and a better result (lift etc) from a SAS oh and you get to use grinders welders cutting torch or plasma way more fun I have oply been involved in the SAS and apart from some thinking and the cost would be higher I would SAS when the time comes but you still have a wealer front end than running longfields.

You can also look at rolling a Pardo axle under it and coiling it, but you really need to do a bit of thinking or take the prado arm's etc across and just throw in a swaybar, not as good in artic as a 5 link but Prado arm's are about as much thinking and math as I want and you can't really screw it up Toyota did all the math that way.

i did a chassie swap a few years back, it was a quick cheep way to do it, however i ended up doing the same work as a SAS over time anyway.
however if your on a budget and have a doner handy go for it.

look about half way down ths page
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1340&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

daneo wrote:cheer guys

ah yes CV's... what can you do, beyond going solid axle haha. The reasoning for wanting the locker was, obviously to have the benifits of a locked front diff but also from what i have read on this site about the front diff being weak i would rather be breaking CV's than diffs. The 33" tyres that I'm planning on aren't likely to help with the CV Problem either

I do have quite a heavy foot so the plan is to buy one off those ball joint separator tools and get good at replacing CV's . If i get fed up with replacing them then i guess ill have to just do a solid axle swap!

Has anyone here done the ball joint lift on a hilux? did you notice the improved suspension travel over having your torsion bars wound up? I find its quite easy to lift one of the rear wheels off the ground when descending down a hill on an angle with the two front wheels over the edge as the front doesn't have very good articulation. Still not sure if i want to go ahead with it as unless i drop my diff it might be putting more of an angle/pressure on the CV's

well thats a easy answer just cut of that ifs sh#t and go solid front axel

I have a 1 or 10 of them laying arround then all you need is some rear leaf springs and some other bits and bobs and hay presto you have a sas done for under $800 .

as for doing it I am more than happy to help you do it as long as there is beer involved and your not affraid of a angle grinder if keen send me a pm

cheers chopper

nice truck Matt, i think i if i were to go solid axle i would go SAS, do it once do it right sorta thing, might be selling the road bike soon so may have some spare cash lying round - its to expensive to keep on the road when your crashing it

Thanks for the offer chopper, im not sure when i would be going ahead with a SAS but i'm thinking hold off doing anything to the IFS, diff lock BJ raise etc as im am most probally looking to do the sas some time in the future so would be throwing money away.

I've heard of people doing SAS's for under a grand but when talking to shops etc they say that at that price your steerings gonna be crap, trucks going to be all over the road and then theres the problem of having it tidy enough to get a cert?? also would stop like a dog without discs in the front? im resonably mechanical minded but dont no alot about the steering side of it and have welded before in the past dont have a welder though, although probably have mates welders i could use, if i were to SAS it i would be giving it a decent lift at the same time so i guess thats where quite a bit of the 4k quotes you get from shops come from, and then would probably want bigger tyres as i could fit them, and then need a new engine to power the bigger tyres and the list goes on...

....also would stop like a dog without discs in the front?

Solid axle toyota diff still has disc brakes on the front, unless you get an early 80s(pre 82 I think) diff

and the steering, lol, crossover is great, who have you been talking to?

Hey man,

Welcome!

Good going on getting the surf, looks real good man!

one thing I'd be a bit cautious about is the front locker, in an IFS wagon it can be a good way to start exploding your CV's!

Haha yeh and that can make trips REAL fun haha

me in my old beast with dixie having fun with CVs lol





Take chopper up on his offer, its worth it!


Dan

Steve_t647 wrote:You can also look at rolling a Pardo axle under it and coiling it, but you really need to do a bit of thinking or take the prado arm's etc across and just throw in a swaybar, not as good in artic as a 5 link but Prado arm's are about as much thinking and math as I want and you can't really screw it up Toyota did all the math that way.

Coils are nice, & you get a bit stronger diff & CVs with the Prado gear, but if I was doing such a swap I'd use Nissan arms. I've bent the prado ones a few times now, Safari ones are heaps stronger & would take bugger all more work to make fit in a swap like that.

Cheers
Clint

haha i need to source some money first, i would want to buy everything i needed before i started the job as its meant to be my run around(well thats what i told myself when i bought it two months ago) and my other two vehicles are laying in ruins at the moment so would be borrowing the parents vehicles

i will definably be taking up generous offers to help me with the job once the time comes though, and yes theres always beer in the fridge!

before i get to carried away need to make sure i have the basics, mud tyres cos its muddy out there and i want to go play tow bar off, rear bar made up with tow hook mounting, safety gear etc as once i have the solid axle Murphy's law will be breaking something every weekend so I'll be spending all my dough repairing!

i know theres a lot of info on here about SASing but theres nothing much of a solid list anywhere to give me a fair idea of the price, the way i see it,

open solid axle diff $200-400
falcon leafs in the rear, reset for new lift $250-350
use rear leafs in the front, reset them for new lift $120
new shocks all round $600
get diff modified for front steering etc(no idea whats happening here) - $250?
make up front shackles(already have extended rears) $80-100
cert $400
wheel alignment $60
welding materials, grinding discs drill bits etc $100
beer $300?

then there are things such as extended brake lines for the new lift, all the bolts, u-bolts etc etc $300 odd.

thats a minimum of $2360 so far (+beer)

its always the little things you don't think of that make up the price, anyone want to add to the list/correct my pricing?

smurf has a rig with soild ex ifs and his hi lux is preaty kick a#* mind you he dose have a bigish 2.6 celica engen to powre the beast

daneo wrote:I've heard of people doing SAS's for under a grand but when talking to shops etc they say that at that price your steerings gonna be crap, trucks going to be all over the road and then theres the problem of having it tidy enough to get a cert??

what shops have you been talking to bacause they a a bunch of muppets. the best sterring is to convert the old push pull sterring to crossover steer by useing the ifs box (that you have) then get some sterring bits made up for about $150 , buy a solid front (that I have 10 of) for $400 buy some old rears for the front $50 , some coons for the back $60 , some other ods and sods $150 and beer and a helping hand and in a coupple of nights you have a sas done, and yes all my trucks that I have built have been certed and they had no problem with any of the mods.

But yea you could take it to a shop and fork out 4k and get it done but I dont like paying some one $50 plus a hour to do something that I can do myself

haha i wont name shops here but yes i have been quoted $4000, no i wouldn't pay $4000 and yes i have also called some of them muppets(not to there face) think I'd rather put that extra money towards a new welder and do it myself!

I would want to give it a raise at the same time, which would add a bit of extra $$$ but i should get shocks etc cheap through mates so that would cut the price down. you seem experienced in the matter chopper so when the time comes i'll pm you and if your kind enough you can give me a helping hand

Cheers for the info's i more or less know what needs to be done now apart from the steering side of it, might google crossover steering....

daneo wrote:haha i wont name shops here but yes i have been quoted $4000, no i wouldn't pay $4000 and yes i have also called some of them muppets(not to there face) think I'd rather put that extra money towards a new welder and do it myself!

thata boy there is only one way to learn and thats to get stuck in and do it your self , there is alot of people that will give you some helping advice and im more than happy to give you a hand , god knows we all had to start somewhere

Link to Hosehustlers crossovers steering conversion

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5192

Bear in mind that a shop will need to pay staff/phone/power/rent etc... thats why you pay them an hourly rate... but as to the steering being all over the place, thats just insane. Whoever said that just doesn't understand Hiluxes at all...

There are many different ways to skin the SAS cat on a surf - and if you can do it yourself then you'll save heaps: but you are right, when you add things up, doing it for under $1k is unlikely in the extreme... even with beer-powered labour. More like $2-$2.5k ...And remember to get cert you need a signed doc from the person who did the welding and possibly a 4711 cert number too - talk to the cert guy before you start.

Have a read here for info on SASing and coons - this is one I did a few years back.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1147

Oh, and welcome aboard here, and I teach part time at polytech too... Linux and computer techo stuff...

Steve

thanks chopper will be hitting you up when i got some loose cash then...

cheers guys for the info on the cross over steering and SAS.

Interesting steve so your nice and close if i need to pick your brains about something the bachelor in ICT is pretty programming based but am doing a networking course with eddie an medhi at the moment!

update on truck, 33" buckshots on 10" rims, snorkel and front tow hook fitted bonnet protector( ) a new paint job( ) and i believe a blown inner CV

see the new mods in action!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11560

welcome

pretty new here myself, my surf has been off the road for the last 5 months of the 7 i've owned it ...so I haven't been out much. I go past your truck nearly every day, looks good and its muddy nearly everytime I see it

see you around

Evan

a couple of us will be doing a trip over the weekend, just somewher local, ashley or something. Let me no if you guys are interested. won't be anything to serious ill only be in a surf on 31's.

I won't be able to make it, truck wont be ready in time and im off for the long weekend anyway, deffinatly keen once I get it back and get new shoes for it..

I go past your truck nearly every day, looks good and its muddy nearly everytime I see it

a couple of us will be doing a trip over the weekend, just somewher local, ashley or something. Let me no if you guys are interested. won't be anything to serious ill only be in a surf on 31's.

Could be keen, although my trucks interior is covered in mud at the moment so that means I'd have to clean it , also need to do a bit of guard bashing as my new 33's are getting cut up, don't have a rear tow hook yet either, waiting for a rear bar to be made up just have the factory tow bar . what day you guys looking at going out? would be pretty keen to check out the 4wd area at the Ashley as have only seen a small part of it. yous have snorkel's?